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Thread: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

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    Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Fan Favourite Zaraki Kenpachi vs Ginjo, who wins?


    Location: FKT
    Starting Distance: 50 meters
    Starting State: Kenpachi - Eyepatch on, Ginjo in Fullbring armor
    State of Mind: IC - desire to kill (i.e. opponent needs to die for a win).

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    I think people assume Ginjo is weak because he easily lost to Ichigo which is absurb IMO. Kenpachi wouldn't stand a chance against Ichigo either.
    At any rate, people should stop underestimating Ichigo.

    Any way Ginjo seem to have a more impressive attack. I imagine he was well above vice captain level before obtaining Ichigo's power. When he did, he instantly became captain level capable of tanking getsuga tenshou without the use of bankai or even shikai.
    Based on what I've seen of Ginjo, I'd say he has more than enough juice to finish Kenpachi

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Well, I would even say that before obtaining Ichigo's powers Ginjou was already at a Captain level, maybe even around Mayuri as we clearly saw him be above any of Fullbringers and the same Tsukishima managed to put a great fight against Byakuya who is reffered to be one of the middle tier Captains who is obviously stronger than Mayuri or Komamura.
    So I believe that even before getting powers from Ichigo Ginjou would be able to at least fight the guys like Mayuri or Komamura. I even believe he might be able to defeat Komamura and Mayuri in Bankai. So after getting powers from Ichigo and merging them with his own he easily managed to become even with Ichi in Shikai and it's a damn great fit! Ichi in his Shikai was fighting Kirge to a good extent and I would put Kirge among the strongest Sternenritters, cause he even managed to fight Ichi in Bankai for quite some time, even though Ichi hold back a bit.
    Of course Ginjou even in Bankai was no match for Ichi, but hell there are not that many people in this manga who are a match for current Ichigo in his Bankai if he isn't holding back.
    And well I do believe that Ginjou would be able to take if not all of those Captains and Ikkaku and Renji combined, but at least he can take any of Captains who were present there individually and take them down, so I do believe he can win against Kenpachi as it seems even though he is hax, he still can loose to a skilled opponent and Ginjou is obviously not only strong, but also pretty skilled one.

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Kenpachi Would win with his eyepatch off fighting seriously.
    1, Thing about Kenpachi he can take multiple Mortal Blows and still fight at full strength something other captains can't do. 2, he receives most of these blows deliberately as he likes fighting with handicaps and rather get stabbed and stabb you back than to dodge and attack. 3, he only goes all out if he's received way too much damage to actually kill him.

    Ginjou seemed to be low captain level before absorbing Ichigo's FullBring and became around mid-tier level....Ichigo goes Ham when he uses resolve Justus and is determined but he's not the greatest swordsman compared to The Gotei Captains. He's fast supposed to be faster than Byakuya and his GT packs a whallop...Ginjou didn't push Ichigo very far the winner was obvious, Ginjou was using Ichigo's own move against him we never saw his own ability that takes away a lot from him, but he did cut Ichigo up a bit......But he's not beating Byakuya, or Kenpachi...I even Think Hitsugaya can pull a win if he plays his cards right......Ginjo wasn't on Ichigo's Lv is what I'm basically saying...And the captains grew stronger why Ichigo seems just a bit stronger since after his Gin fight

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kenpachi Would win with his eyepatch off fighting seriously.
    1, Thing about Kenpachi he can take multiple Mortal Blows and still fight at full strength something other captains can't do. 2, he receives most of these blows deliberately as he likes fighting with handicaps and rather get stabbed and stabb you back than to dodge and attack. 3, he only goes all out if he's received way too much damage to actually kill him.

    Ginjou seemed to be low captain level before absorbing Ichigo's FullBring and became around mid-tier level....Ichigo goes Ham when he uses resolve Justus and is determined but he's not the greatest swordsman compared to The Gotei Captains. He's fast supposed to be faster than Byakuya and his GT packs a whallop...Ginjou didn't push Ichigo very far the winner was obvious, Ginjou was using Ichigo's own move against him we never saw his own ability that takes away a lot from him, but he did cut Ichigo up a bit......But he's not beating Byakuya, or Kenpachi...I even Think Hitsugaya can pull a win if he plays his cards right......Ginjo wasn't on Ichigo's Lv is what I'm basically saying...And the captains grew stronger why Ichigo seems just a bit stronger since after his Gin fight
    Zaraki stands no chance. None!!
    Before you say he does, explain how in the world he could actually attack a person he ain't catching?

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Isn't Tousen faster than Kenpachi?? Speed not on Soifon or Yourochi lv is Irrelavent when fighting Kenpachi.....He fights in a manner that allows him to cut down Ppl that use Shunpo or Sonido.........He has agility and Dexterity, He caught Tousens Blade without any senses but touch...He even managed to dodge as soon as the blade touched him....Kenpachi is simply gonna grab his blade and cut his arm off and land a fatal blow, Ginjo can't tank more damage than Kenpachi nobody but Yama can. Much less it would be veryuch of a hack and slash fight with Ginou dashing out of harms way, he just gonna get his sword grabbed and cut down....-Like I said all the captains there were capable of handling Ginjou...

    Byakuya only took sO much damage because of Tsuc..Ability which allowed his to by pass his Shikia and Bankia...Regardless the FullBringers were never a match to the Shinigami

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    All of the Fullbringers had powerful abilities, but the problem they had was they weren't suited for fighting. Only Tsukishima and Ginjou were dangerous opponents. Tsukishima is obvious, he gave Byakuya so much trouble, As Nodt trashed Byakuya but Tsukishima was actually able to counter Byakuya's Bankai.

    Ginjo is strong enough to make Ichigo go Bankai, and although I really don't get why Ginjo has a Bankai since he was supposed to have lost his powers, his Bankai was enough to clash with Ichigo. The only real reason that fight was so short is because Kubo needed to wrap up the Fullbring Arc quick since it wasn't popular. That being said, Kenpachi would definitely win. He's just a beast, Ginjo doesn't really have any of Kenpachi's feats behind him. Ginjo is somewhere around low and mid captain level, and Kenpachi is considered to be dangerous by Soul Society, despite the fact that he's on their side. Kenpachi should be at least Byakuya's level, and he killed three SR's with no eyepatch.....I just can't see someone who can't even make Ichigo dodge his cero compete with that(especially considering that was pretty much his best move).

    I think he'd enjoy the fight though.

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Ginjo before stealing Ichigo's power vs Kenpachi, eyepatchless even: Ginjo wins. He was a Shinigami, and had some good skills at what he did, and also Bankai. Kenpachi is neither the fastest or strongest in the world, and all it takes to beat him is some proper skill.

    Ginjo after stealing Ichigo's power, in just his Shikai: Ginjo wins, and would cut Kenpachi into a million tiny pieces with just one Getsuga Tenshou.

    Ginjo after stealing Ichigo's power and using Bankai: Those million tiny pieces would be turned into a million tiny nothing. At this point he was far too strong for any of the captains to handle.

    But of course Kenpachi would win regardless because he's a fan favorite. He avoided certain death from Giriko's Time Tells no Lies just because of that.

    ---------- Post added at 10:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    All of the Fullbringers had powerful abilities, but the problem they had was they weren't suited for fighting. Only Tsukishima and Ginjou were dangerous opponents. Tsukishima is obvious, he gave Byakuya so much trouble, As Nodt trashed Byakuya but Tsukishima was actually able to counter Byakuya's Bankai.
    Exactly, that's why Shishigawara relied on luck, Yukio was a god inside his own game (although he seriously lacked imagination as pointed out by Hitsugaya), Riruka could imprison people inside something she loved and Giriko could set one condition and walk away.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    The only real reason that fight was so short is because Kubo needed to wrap up the Fullbring Arc quick since it wasn't popular.
    The arc went according to schedule. It was meant to be short and the fight was meant to be short. And it actually lasted something like 5 chapters total, which is a lot for a 50 chapter arc. Mostly about development and not the fight itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    That being said, Kenpachi would definitely win. He's just a beast, Ginjo doesn't really have any of Kenpachi's feats behind him.
    Kenpachi would lose so horribly that it would make his defeat against Royd look like his best victory. Ginjo had ALL of Ichigo's power to the point he was as strong as him, and Ichigo at that point was many times stronger than he ever was before his fight with Aizen. It's no contest whatsoever. How is Kenpachi going to defend against this (that's not one of Kubo's famous white backgrounds, that Getsuga Tenshou is so massive that it's literally taking an entire page) when even a simple GT during the SS arc was enough to destroy Byakuya's Shikai? And more so when Ichigo didn't even have use a GT to beat Kenpachi? And Ginjo also improved his speed and strength tenfold, he's stronger in every category than Kenpachi.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Ginjo is somewhere around low and mid captain level,
    Only before stealing Ichigo's power.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    and Kenpachi is considered to be dangerous by Soul Society, despite the fact that he's on their side.
    Because he can turn against them whenever he decides that he's going to get more fights if he betrays them. Every other captain and even unnamed Shinigami are considered dangerous if they don't have any allegiance to the Gotei 13. Kenpachi is not unique, only one of the stronger potential dangers out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Kenpachi should be at least Byakuya's level
    Not even close. He has strong reiatsu and knows how to hold a sword, but that's it. His level is abysmal in everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    and he killed three SR's with no eyepatch.
    Those 3 SR literally allowed him to kill them. The first jumped towards Kenpachi, the second one stood there and the third transformed into a clone... with the eyepatch on. Only Loyd's part can be considered a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    I just can't see someone who can't even make Ichigo dodge his cero compete with that(especially considering that was pretty much his best move).
    Ichigo was simply stronger, but even then Ginjo was far beyond the level Ichigo was during the Soul Society arc.

    Ginjo wins, no other way to it.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    FullBringers were all VC besides the top 2..With Ichigo's Powers they were top VC lv's pre-time skip IMO...Bleach battles are all about Power until Kubo pulls an ass pull and adds in tr bit of strategy and abilities...FullBringers had decent abilities which is by Ikkaku got his bones broken from weak punches no way in hell was that kid faster than Illaki could have easily crushe him..Jackie got owned Pre-Time Skip Renji probably would have felt the pressure from her kicks but he's improved...Hitsugaya owns regardless, Byakuya was set back by an crazy ability which gave his opponent a good insight of his zanpoktou, Kenpachi one shots weaklings as always.

    Ginjou only fought Ichigo's and wasn't even a match for him with only Ichi's shikia. They're went Bankia an shyt got interesting, he still didn't push Ichigo to surpass any limits like most of his fights do, that shows a lot. Ginjoi was Kommamira/ Mayuri lv before and after stealing Ichigo power jumped up to High Hitsugaya, Byakuya , Kenpachi.

    Bleach doesn't elaborate on dinner details which makes future ass whippings look like retcons..Kenpachi fights at disadvantages he could have one Noi any time before and after NOI's release..His 2 hand swing was for a faster sword stroke to finish it....1 shot king of Bleach. Tousen Bankia MADD Haxx Kenpachi and a few others can deal with it..,Kenpachi catching his sword more than once with no senses what so bee to help only pure battle skill is amazing. Ginjo like I said could have been dealt with by any of the captains that came during that Arc. Animated Bleach is great cause it shows that Kenoachi's sword swings are just as fast as other captains, so are his reflexes, agility and dexterbility. In The Movie and from Tami's Cero we've seen he can move fast when he wants to but the doesn't like chasing down opponents and moves with just enough speed to enjoy a hack and slash battle....Cutting Knpachi into pieces LoL yea right, You have that completely backwards there.....

    There's a reason Byakuya and Kenpachi don't fight cannonly..Kenpachi can win that fight but it'll be hard to explain to fans who are adamant about both, but don't get the finner details of Bleach that aren't highlighted because Kubo more or less sold out on making a technical fighting manga.

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    FullBringers were all VC besides the top 2..With Ichigo's Powers they were top VC lv's pre-time skip IMO...Bleach battles are all about Power until Kubo pulls an ass pull and adds in tr bit of strategy and abilities...FullBringers had decent abilities which is by Ikkaku got his bones broken from weak punches no way in hell was that kid faster than Illaki could have easily crushe him..Jackie got owned Pre-Time Skip Renji probably would have felt the pressure from her kicks but he's improved...Hitsugaya owns regardless, Byakuya was set back by an crazy ability which gave his opponent a good insight of his zanpoktou, Kenpachi one shots weaklings as always.
    Shinigami ranks only apply to Ginjo because he was the only Shinigami. The rest were humans with special abilities but not physical prowess or battle experience. And as far as those abilities can go, they can be extremely powerful as Yukio could imprison several captain level fighters at once and Tsukishima could copy skill levels with a single slash.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ginjou only fought Ichigo's and wasn't even a match for him with only Ichi's shikia.
    Ginjo was equal to Ichigo in Shikai, which by the way, is many times stronger now than he ever was pre-Dangai and that includes Bankai + Mask. That makes hims far stronger than any other captain.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    They're went Bankia an shyt got interesting, he still didn't push Ichigo to surpass any limits like most of his fights do, that shows a lot.
    Because he had his powers? How is Ichigo going to surpass his limits fighting a copycat?

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ginjoi was Kommamira/ Mayuri lv before and after stealing Ichigo power jumped up to High Hitsugaya, Byakuya , Kenpachi.
    Enough with the "Komamura is weak" bullcrap. He has lost against Aizen twice and fully Hollowfied Tousen, and every other captain, including overhyped characters like Shunsui or Shinji, have also lost against similar opponents. And no, Ginjo wasn't at that level, he was skilled. And that powerboost he got from Ichigo's stolen powers was massive, to the point he could dwarf any other captain. Byakuya and Kenpachi are somewhere slightly above captain level in terms of reiatsu, Ichigo was higher than that, and he was given his powers back thanks to pretty much every ally putting their reiatsu into the sword, which includes Yamamoto, those three you mentioned, the rest of the captains, vice captains, Vaizados and Isshin, which I'm sure it all combined surpasses that of Byakuya's alone, and Ginjo was fighting on par with Ichigo. Kenpachi is close to nothing in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Bleach doesn't elaborate on dinner details which makes future ass whippings look like retcons..Kenpachi fights at disadvantages he could have one Noi any time before and after NOI's release..His 2 hand swing was for a faster sword stroke to finish it....1 shot king of Bleach
    He could have killed Nnoitra but not any other Espada, not even Arroniero. His two hands attack is just a little stronger than his normal. More cutting power and that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Tousen Bankia MADD Haxx Kenpachi and a few others can deal with it..,Kenpachi catching his sword more than once with no senses what so bee to help only pure battle skill is amazing.
    Kenpachi didn't catch that sword with skill. It's not hard to catch it if it's going through your gut. The second time Tousen was bleeding out and could barely move anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ginjo like I said could have been dealt with by any of the captains that came during that Arc.
    They wouldn't be able to scratch him as soon as he released Ichigo's Fullbring. He's that far beyond them.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Animated Bleach is great cause it shows that Kenoachi's sword swings are just as fast as other captains, so are his reflexes, agility and dexterbility.
    And the anime is not reliable. In the manga he's just sluggish, and in terms of agility it's hard to say because he prefers to take a hit so that his target is closer.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    In The Movie and from Tami's Cero we've seen he can move fast when he wants to but the doesn't like chasing down opponents and moves with just enough speed to enjoy a hack and slash battle....
    And in the novel he can take hundreds of Hado #96 without injury and is as strong as Mugetsu. Not canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Cutting Knpachi into pieces LoL yea right, You have that completely backwards there.....
    You are ignoring how easy it really is to cut Kenpachi. Ichigo was dicing him no problem as soon as he got the hang of it, and so did Tousen and Nnoitra. He's not even at Aizen's level in terms of hardness. One Getsuga Tenshou before the timeskip could have beaten him and one of those GT Ginjo can shoot with Ichigo's powers is easily 10 times stronger. Kenpachi is just inferior in every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    There's a reason Byakuya and Kenpachi don't fight cannonly..Kenpachi can win that fight but it'll be hard to explain to fans who are adamant about both, but don't get the finner details of Bleach that aren't highlighted because Kubo more or less sold out on making a technical fighting manga.
    Kenpachi couldn't even dream about touching Byakuya. One Bakudo #61 and the fight is over. Byakuya is an expert swordsman and highly skilled Shinigami with natural talent and born with superior reiatsu described to be even stronger than Kenpachi's. His Bankai is nearly impossible to outrun or to cut through in defensive mode. His Shikai alone is very hard to even counter. Kenpachi only has his sword and his insanity on his side.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

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    Green Grin Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Shinigami ranks only apply to Ginjo because he was the only Shinigami. The rest were humans with special abilities but not physical prowess or battle experience. And as far as those abilities can go, they can be extremely powerful as Yukio could imprison several captain level fighters at once and Tsukishima could copy skill levels with a single slash.
    Point being, they fought Shinigami their skill and power can be compared towards the shindigs I rank.

    [QUOTE]
    Ginjo was equal to Ichigo in Shikai, which by the way, is many times stronger now than he ever was pre-Dangai and that includes Bankai + Mask. That makes hims far stronger than any other captain.[\Quote]

    Ichigo is only a little bIit stronger the time he fought GIN...FullBring is helpful it doesn't completely seperate him from the rest of the shinigami ....He doesn't even use FullBring anymore it's just costume design now....Kubo turned FB into cannon filler....


    [QUOTE]
    Because he had his powers? How is Ichigo going to surpass his limits fighting a copycat?
    [QUOTE]
    Kenpachi has done it and many other fictional character....Point being Ginjo wasn't much of a challenge

    [QUOTE]
    Enough with the "Komamura is weak" bullcrap. He has lost against Aizen twice and fully Hollowfied Tousen, and every other captain, including overhyped characters like Shunsui or Shinji, have also lost against similar opponents. And no, Ginjo wasn't at that level, he was skilled. And that powerboost he got from Ichigo's stolen powers was massive, to the point he could dwarf any other captain. Byakuya and Kenpachi are somewhere slightly above captain level in terms of reiatsu, Ichigo was higher than that, and he was given his powers back thanks to pretty much every ally putting their reiatsu into the sword, which includes Yamamoto, those three you mentioned, the rest of the captains, vice captains, Vaizados and Isshin, which I'm sure it all combined surpasses that of Byakuya's alone, and Ginjo was fighting on par with Ichigo. Kenpachi is close to nothing in comparison.
    [\Quote]

    Komamaru is a captain he isn't weak Kubo like Hitsugaya made him Aizen's Choppin block. He can't beat any of the captains however..I dare you to dispute this cause he rlly can't , Hitsugaya is the only one who would have a problem and he has ultimate move for that measure....Shunsui and Shinji aren't over hyped they are strong and have great shikia abilities....Ichigo can't beat Shunsui, maybe Shinji cause he's fought him before.

    [\QUOTE]
    He could have killed Nnoitra but not any other Espada, not even Arroniero. His two hands attack is just a little stronger than his normal. More cutting power and that's it.
    [\QUOTE]
    If you believe so w/e cause this post is mad dumb.....His 2 hand slash is signicantlly more he's actually using all his strength and makes his slash faster

    [QUOTE]
    Kenpachi didn't catch that sword with skill. It's not hard to catch it if it's going through your gut. The second time Tousen was bleeding out and could barely move anymore.
    [\QUOTE]

    Stop being a hater, first time was to confirm his theory, Kenpqchi is already ran through and slashed twice by a captain off guard both were injured.. The feat is cray not disputable he beat the unbeatable and was the first signs of his battle prowess and experience outside of back n slash


    [QUOTE]
    They wouldn't be able to scratch him as soon as he released Ichigo's Fullbring. He's that far beyond them.[\QUOTE]

    Yes they can the top captains that is, Byakuya can trap him and attack with all his swords, or use Kidou... Soi Fon and him should just be about the same speed in his Bankia. Shuns hi rapes cause he's Commander...Unohanna which I've ways mentioned is the shit, Ukitake throws his Gt back at him.


    [QUOTE]
    And the anime is not reliable. In the manga he's just sluggish, and in terms of agility it's hard to say because he prefers to take a hit so that his target is closer.
    [\QuOte]
    Didn't say it was just animates Bleach very well, and no he doesn't he was faster than Ichigo and faster than any other VC...He doesn't use Shunponcause he doesn't like digging that way doesn't mean he can't....Kenpachi is like Jason how hell pop up down the block and the around the corner even though he normally moves at regular speed

    Nobody mentioned the Novel...Thanks


    [QuOTe]
    You are ignoring how easy it really is to cut Kenpachi. Ichigo was dicing him no problem as soon as he got the hang of it, and so did Tousen and Nnoitra. He's not even at Aizen's level in terms of hardness. One Getsuga Tenshou before the timeskip could have beaten him and one of those GT Ginjo can shoot with Ichigo's powers is easily 10 times stronger. Kenpachi is just inferior in every way.[\QUOTe]

    And where was it ever stated how much stronger it was?? Stop making stuff up, your not Kubo Dnt write as if you know that for a fact, it's not even depicted that way....Easy to cut Kenpachi what does it matter when you can be stabbed and slashed dozens of times and still fight at full strength.....GT was a sPamm like rasengan Grimjow rtanked it released, GIn didn't suffer serious damage from it...All it does is cut you when it's not used as a finishing attack which it has m ER finished anybody off before....Kenpachiet Ichigo cut him up so badly he was enjoying Ichigo improving and going at him full force. Ichigo was in his Resolve Justus mood only reason why he stalemated with Kenpachi plus all those free hits....Ichigo captain fights were all conditionally he didn't completely win,,,Both Kenpachi and Byakuya could have killed if they went all out from early or didn't try and gauge Ichigo's capabilities.

    Quote Quote:
    Kenpachi couldn't even dream about touching Byakuya. One Bakudo #61 and the fight is over. Byakuya is an expert swordsman and highly skilled Shinigami with natural talent and born with superior reiatsu Iescribed to be even stronger than Kenpachi's. His Bankai is nearly impossible to outrun or to cut through in defensive mode. His Shikai alone is very hard to even counter. Kenpachi only has his sword and his insanity on his side.
    Nothing special about his reiatsu he's simPly born with more than others in SS.....Kenpachi has the most reiatsu in the Gotei 13, he's not limited like the testy...Shunsui and Unihanna are sure to be stronger but simply reiatsu Kenpachi is like Ichigo they just keep pumping the stuff theirs is special that way......Binding spells not 70 and up aren't holding Kenpachi especially with his eyepatch off, Bykuya can't inflict the same damage Kenpachi does 1 handed with his Bankia....we've seen this when thu fought Yami........Kenpachi can easily survive mutliPle Bankia shots from Byakuya, while Byakuya at best can survive 2-3 of his attacks....The anime explained it perfectly Kenpachi would grab Byakuya's sword and cut him diwn

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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Based on what we saw I think it is safe to actually say shikai(?) ganju was actually even with shikai ichigo. Ichigo did not seem to have any sort of advantage at that point and he even got easily baited into receiving a hit with GT (even though it didn't cause much damage). The fight really turned against ginjo when both of them took things a step further and used bankai. The defining aspects of this level of the fight are the facts that ichigo stopped ginjo's cero thingy with his bare hands and he was even able to break ginjo's sword. Both of them heavily suggest that the boost ginjo got out of his pseudo bankai was not nearly on the level with an actual bankai. Kenpachi is already fairly capable of going up against a proper captain bankai even with his eyepatch on so if ginjo really didn't get as much a boost as ichigo got from his bankai then perhaps ginjo with his pseudo bankai would not even defeat eyepatch kenpachi. Without the eyepatch this is certainly kenpachi's win IMO.

  14. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Point being, they fought Shinigami their skill and power can be compared towards the shindigs I rank.
    No, it can't. Yukio defeated all those captain level fighters the moment he imprisoned them, but decided to make everybody fight each other so that the winner would leave. He had the power over his pocket dimensions, but lacked creativity. The others could have also used their improved powers too. But none can be considered a fighter. They are humans with special abilities and that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ichigo is only a little bIit stronger the time he fought GIN...
    Ichigo is many, many times stronger in Shikai than he ever was in Bankai + Mask. His reiatsu has incremented dramatically, so does his power and strength, to the point he was laughing off Stern Ritter even in Vollstandig. He's not just a bit stronger than when he fought Gin, over 10 captain level or higher characters give him reiatsu, and the power displayed is just as large. A freaking ROYAL GUARD broke his hand on Ichigo's face/

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    .FullBring is helpful it doesn't completely seperate him from the rest of the shinigami ....He doesn't even use FullBring anymore it's just costume design now
    His Shinigami and Fullbring have merged and made him much stronger than before, it was a prediction by Ginjo early in the arc and now it's confirmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kubo turned FB into cannon filler....
    Go actually read that arc instead of making such preposterous claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kenpachi has done it and many other fictional character
    Kenpachi only had to fight a perfect clone and that includes his tendency to start weak. He even said that all he had to do was to become stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Point being Ginjo wasn't much of a challenge
    Ginjo could have painted Seireitei's White Tower red with anybody's blood. A normal Shinigami is never going to beat a fully merged Shinigami + Fullbring.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    He can't beat any of the captains however..I dare you to dispute this cause he rlly can't
    His reiatsu is just as strong as anyone's and his Bankai is massively strong in the strength department, enough to push around a perfectly Hollowfied captain level fighter. Nobody but Aizen and Yamamoto are going to withstand a direct hit from that thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Shunsui and Shinji aren't over hyped they are strong and have great shikia abilities
    Yes they are overhyped, to the point they are being given their own category in rankings or claiming they could beat any of the VL Espada in just Shikai, even though they wouldn't be able to under normal circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ichigo can't beat Shunsui, maybe Shinji cause he's fought him before.
    Ichigo beat a Royal Guard known for a speed that puts Soifon's to shame while being butt-naked and distracted. Just to give you an idea of how strong he is. He could mince Shunsui into Komamura's food in a straight fight, and his reiatsu would be so big those games would not even work. Ginjo was on that same level in just Shikai.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    If you believe so w/e cause this post is mad dumb.....His 2 hand slash is signicantlly more he's actually using all his strength and makes his slash faster
    Stop watching the anime where he can shoot yellow lasers. His two hand slash is just stronger but he still just cut Nnoitra a little better than he was doing with only one hand. And Nnoitra always relied on his Hierro but had nothing to harden his own body. Other characters have taken much stronger cuts with less injury. Kenpachi is not going to cut through a Zanpakutou just by using two hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Stop being a hater, first time was to confirm his theory, Kenpqchi is already ran through and slashed twice by a captain off guard both were injured.. The feat is cray not disputable he beat the unbeatable and was the first signs of his battle prowess and experience outside of back n slash
    Oh really? First grabbing a sword stuck inside him and later stopping an opponent in his deathbed attacking straight forward is battle prowess? He does have experience from so much fighting, but against Tousen he got lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Yes they can the top captains that is, Byakuya can trap him and attack with all his swords, or use Kidou...
    Ichigo can beat Byakuya's Shikai with only a pre-timeskip Getsuga Tenshou. One GT after he regained his power would obliterate Byakuya's Shikai, Bankai and himself into nothing. And in speed Ichigo is also faster now and Byakuya couldn't even compete back then. Ginjo is at around Ichigo's level so that applies to him. And Kido won't work. Ichigo is immune to it. Not even a Bakudo #99 by a Kido captain can stop him. Not even Yukio's dimensions that could trap multiple captain level fighters could contain him. It all applies to Ginjo, WHO STOLE ICHIGO'S POWERS.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    oi Fon and him should just be about the same speed in his Bankia.
    The ROYAL GUARD with the title of LIGHTNING SPEED FLASH STEP couldn't even get a clean shot on Ichigo and backfired horribly. What makes you think Soifon, or any other captain would stand a chance? Ginjo was fighting on par with Ichigo in Shikai.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Shuns hi rapes cause he's Commander
    Shunsui is completely outclassed everywhere there.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Unohanna which I've ways mentioned is the shit, Ukitake throws his Gt back at him.
    I doubt Unohana is even on Aizen's level. Ukitake is not going to absorb a GT that is 50 times bigger than him.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Didn't say it was just animates Bleach very well, and no he doesn't he was faster than Ichigo and faster than any other VC...He doesn't use Shunponcause he doesn't like digging that way doesn't mean he can't....Kenpachi is like Jason how hell pop up down the block and the around the corner even though he normally moves at regular speed
    Kenpachi is decently fast in a straight fight but not in a Shunpo contest. Allow me to remind you he lost against an unskilled Ichigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Nobody mentioned the Novel...Thanks
    Oh wow. But you can just keep citing other non-canon sources alright.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    And where was it ever stated how much stronger it was?? Stop making stuff up, your not Kubo Dnt write as if you know that for a fact, it's not even depicted that way
    I don't have to be Kubo to know how easily Kenpachi gets cut by competent fighters while others have to make some big efforts to hurt Aizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Easy to cut Kenpachi what does it matter when you can be stabbed and slashed dozens of times and still fight at full strength
    Kenpachi has never been cut dozens of times. Against Ichigo he got some minor cuts and a big one which made him faint, against Tousen he only got stabbed once and got some minor cuts and against Nnoitra he got stabbed once then got cut close to the neck which made him get serious. He has never had to deal with injuries on the levels of other characters, and he even acknowledges that he can die if he gets cut enough times. One GT from Ichigo during the Soul Society arc would have beaten him and one from Ginjo would have turned him into tiny smoking pieces of meat, with or without eyepatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    GT was a sPamm like rasengan
    No it's not. Ichigo uses it sparingly in the manga. It's only in the anime where he uses it all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Grimjow rtanked it released
    Ichigo wasn't in his best state of mind back then. Later he recovered some resolve and was cutting Grimmjow with ease. And he never had to deal with a GT 10 times stronger than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    GIn didn't suffer serious damage from it
    That was a small GT used for a quick attack with no name or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    All it does is cut you when it's not used as a finishing attack which it has m ER finished anybody off before
    Getsuga Tenshou is an amplified sword slash made out of reiatsu. It's cutting power is immense.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kenpachiet Ichigo cut him up so badly he was enjoying Ichigo improving and going at him full force. Ichigo was in his Resolve Justus mood only reason why he stalemated with Kenpachi plus all those free hits
    Ichigo beat before he even know how to use GT or use Shunpo or Bankai or properly wield his Shikai, or how to fight or use a sword. It was the same VC material Ichigo who beat Kenpachi. Yes, beat. He split Kenpachi's sword in two and made him pass out while he was still conscious. Kenpachi is not even a shadow to Ginjo who has experience, was a Shinigami and has Ichigo's powers merged with Fullbring on top of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ichigo captain fights were all conditionally he didn't completely win,,,Both Kenpachi and Byakuya could have killed if they went all out from early or didn't try and gauge Ichigo's capabilities.
    I can't believe I'm replying to this one. Kenpachi went all out to beat Ichigo because his philosophy to give it his best in a good fight. And that includes *ahem* TWO HANDS.
    Byakuya was fighting for his pride and went all out to kill Ichigo, full of killing intent. He tried to leave nothing but blood out of him with his Bankai, using it at its full potential.
    Ichigo beat them fair and square there. What makes you think they will beat Ginjo who is much more powerful than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Nothing special about his reiatsu he's simPly born with more than others in SS
    Nothing special? His reiatsu is crushing, more so than Kenpachi. It was even described as possibly stronger. Byakuya is extremely gifted there, and his reiatsu might even be stronger than the so called "Senior Captains" and the closest to Aizen or Yamamoto.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kenpachi has the most reiatsu in the Gotei 13
    Oh really? What makes you think that? That time he introduced himself was the first time anybody had felt captain level reiatsu, nothing special there. His release with a skull and everything was just visual, just like Ichigo had an image of his Hollow mask over him.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    simply reiatsu Kenpachi is like Ichigo they just keep pumping the stuff theirs is special that way
    Kenpachi has been shown without an eyepatch namy times before and nothing changes about him. He just leaks reiatsu the same way as Ichigo because neither have any formal training as Shinigami.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Binding spells not 70 and up aren't holding Kenpachi especially with his eyepatch off,
    Yeah right. Turns out some of them completely immobilize their target and it takes some true brute force like a fully Hollowfied Kensei to break out one, and he barely did. Kenpachi is not going to laugh off one Kido blast by an expert like Byakuya.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Bykuya can't inflict the same damage Kenpachi does 1 handed with his Bankia....we've seen this when thu fought Yami.
    Byakuya can do that and more. While Kenpachi can just make a single scratch with his sword against a competent fighter (and Yami is everything but competent) from a close range, Byakuya can make a thousand scratches with his hundred million blades, which can actually move faster than Ichigo in Bankai, from a long range. They can also serve defensively and stop high power attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Kenpachi can easily survive mutliPle Bankia shots from Byakuya,
    What makes you think that? Byakuya barely survived 4 very basic attacks from his own Bankai. Kenpachi is not going to withstand that many controlled by Byakuya, he probably wouldn't even be able to survive two if controlled by hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    The anime explained it perfectly Kenpachi would grab Byakuya's sword and cut him diwn
    That fight was not canon. Byakuya is too skilled to let Kenpachi even get close to him, and it won't even be a fight if he decides to go Bankai, or even Shikai. What makes you think he will be able to fight Ginjo? There's no way out of this. Kenpachi would suffer a horrible defeat.

    ---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Based on what we saw I think it is safe to actually say shikai(?) ganju was actually even with shikai ichigo. Ichigo did not seem to have any sort of advantage at that point and he even got easily baited into receiving a hit with GT (even though it didn't cause much damage). The fight really turned against ginjo when both of them took things a step further and used bankai. The defining aspects of this level of the fight are the facts that ichigo stopped ginjo's cero thingy with his bare hands and he was even able to break ginjo's sword. Both of them heavily suggest that the boost ginjo got out of his pseudo bankai was not nearly on the level with an actual bankai. Kenpachi is already fairly capable of going up against a proper captain bankai even with his eyepatch on so if ginjo really didn't get as much a boost as ichigo got from his bankai then perhaps ginjo with his pseudo bankai would not even defeat eyepatch kenpachi. Without the eyepatch this is certainly kenpachi's win IMO.
    Ichigo after regaining his power is not as strong as he was, not even slightly stronger, HE'S MUCH STRONGER THAN HE EVER WAS. Even 2x power increase is too small to how strong Ichigo is now, and Ginjo was on par with him. He could wipe Kenpachi clean out of existence without even trying.
    Last edited by Torran; December 19, 2012 at 12:53 PM.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  15. #14
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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    Ginjo is everything that is Zaraki & more (eccept crazy).
    Much more Faster, Much more stronger, Much more opportunities that could be utilised with his moves, Much more versatile, Has powerful long range moves (Zaraki doesn't even have one), & etc.

    How in the hell is Zaraki gonna have a chance against this superior opponent who has more than enough juice to take him out?

    ---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Isn't Tousen faster than Kenpachi?? Speed not on Soifon or Yourochi lv is Irrelavent when fighting Kenpachi.....He fights in a manner that allows him to cut down Ppl that use Shunpo or Sonido.........He has agility and Dexterity, He caught Tousens Blade without any senses but touch...He even managed to dodge as soon as the blade touched him....Kenpachi is simply gonna grab his blade and cut his arm off and land a fatal blow, Ginjo can't tank more damage than Kenpachi nobody but Yama can. Much less it would be veryuch of a hack and slash fight with Ginou dashing out of harms way, he just gonna get his sword grabbed and cut down....-Like I said all the captains there were capable of handling Ginjou...

    Byakuya only took sO much damage because of Tsuc..Ability which allowed his to by pass his Shikia and Bankia...Regardless the FullBringers were never a match to the Shinigami
    Tousen wanted to teach Zaraki fear (which was damn retarded considering he is a crazy Kenpachi). If he wanted to straight off kill Zaraki, he would have thrust his sword in his throat (when he casually walked to Zaraki).

    Soifon is too overwhelmingly superior to Zaraki in speed the only thing Zaraki has going for his in such a fight is extremely reaction skills (he is a statue to her).
    Soifon could easily say, screw it, goes bankai & one-shot Zaraki's butt with a nuke.

    Nobody but Zaraki can tank more than Yama? That line is so BS I feel like I'm gonna puke!!

    Isn't it funny to know that Zaraki wouldn't have stood a chance against Tsukishima? Byakuya clearly mentioned how limited his fighting style is http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...8-page-16.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...8-page-17.html
    Even the captains know his flaws. Yama wanted to teach him basic KENDO (something everyone knows how to do) & Shunsui realises he is no good as he is.
    He is a lucky savage that loves fighting even at the cost of his own life. Have a decent long range fighter & he'd be doomed.

    Byakuya fought a human with human durability with human stamina & human strength (If he fought a shinigami verson of Tsukishima....).
    Even that human verson of Tsukishima was strong enough to give him big troubles (something Kenpachi ain't gonna be doing to Byakuya).

  16. #15
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Ginjo VS Zaraki Kenpachi

    I don't think imagination was yukio's limitation in his fight against the captains. Trapping them in those dimensions by no means made him win either. As far as we saw nothing about rukio was actually exceptional in the end. He threw everything he had against hitsugaya which included missiles, traps and an army of monsters and even then nothing was actually strong enough to even scratch hitsugaya. Yukio had a cool ability but he plainly didn't have the power to deal with a proper captain level enemy. He even attempted to destroy the dimension renji was in and even then he escaped relatively unscathed and I really cannot imagine yukio doing something more dangerous than having a dimension implode on someone. More so, even the supposedly indestructible dimension ichigo was on was easily destroyed by ichigo from within. If the other dimensions were like that then I don't quite see any particular reason for the captains to be unable to break them if they feel like it. Yukio didn't lack creativity, he lacked power.

    I don't think kirge was all that strong to be honest. He was outclassed by shikai ichigo in his base form and his volstandig was utterly outclassed by ichigo's bankai. I don't think kirge would have won against any of the captains. While ichigo won with speed against him, the captains would have simply overwhelmed him with other traits their bankais have.

    While I do agree in that ichigo is certainly stronger than before, I don't think he would be as strong as you say. What evidence is there that he really did get such a boost? His shikai for some reason (perhaps the restricting reiatsu medal) was substandard after the SS arc (shikai ichigo as a whole could not keep up with grimmjow, ulquiorra or even dodorni). The way I see it ichigo now simply lives up to what should be expected of a captain level shinigami with shikai and bankai (he lacks a mask boost nowadays too). Even what he did against juhabach does not suggest such an insane power level considering juhabach did subdue him quite easily and ichigo only got a hit on him because juhabach was surprised by ichigo's new found blutz.

    As for the royal guard punching him, there is the consideration that we have no idea whatsoever of how strong the punch was meant to be to begin with. Do we know for a fact that the punch had the full might of his reiatsu behind it? Is that guys' specialty hand to hand combat for that matter? All we know about the punch is that it would have killed ichigo had he still been hurt but that does not say much. Even renji was able to take the punch which suggests the punches were being held back a decent bit or that they were not that dangerous to begin with (although I lean towards the coherent holding back as renji is not even a captain level shinigami)

    Now, on the matter of ginjo, I don't see how he was equal to ichigo at all. Shikai is one thing but when the fight got to the bankai level ginjo was definitely and utterly outclassed. Even if grimmjow was even with shikai ichigo his bankai boost by no means lives up to an actual bankai. Zaraki was able to fight with 2 consecutive captains with the eyepatch on and he was able to fight evenly with sealed nnoitora with his eyepatch on too. I don't see how ginjo with a pseudo bankai would win against kenpachi without his eyepatch on and even less if kenpachi bothers with using kendo (which one shotted a espada even though kenpachi was weak to begin with).

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