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Thread: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Battle takes place in SS, where Ichigo had his final confrontation with Aizen. All techniques are allowed. Ichigo has all the powers he showed immediately after he completed his dangai training with zangetsu/shirosaki.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    In my opinion Ichigo destroys him. Yamamoto has four techniques in Bankai yes?

    1) East. The disadvantages of this technique are that he needs to land a hit. He landed 0 hits on Juha Bach. Dangai Ichigo displayed higher base stats so yeah...anyways.

    +The statement he made about it is pretty obviously a hyperbole; if he can destroy anything he cuts, since there were no range restrictions on it, he'd destroy the entire ground upon touching it. Not a portion, but the entirety of the ground. That didn't happen so there are unsaid restrictions on his statement about east. Furthermore, it should still be subject to the laws of reiatsu anyways.

    2) West. It's not an attack, but rather 15 million C of Reiatsu. (Anyone with higher reiatsu than him should get through it and if significantly higher with no problem) Anyways, anyone who has durability at city level or higher should be able to take it. (Since Thermo Nuke's reach tens of millions of degrees at their core; they're basically powered by the same nuclear fusion process as the sun is). Dangai Ichigo displayed a city busting shockwave and then tanked one from Aizen, so he shouldn't have too much trouble getting past it.

    3) South. Zombies, well didn't really work and won't because Yamamoto hasn't killed anyone that Ichigo would possibly be hung up by. Oh and it seems like those skeletons were kind of fodder to guys of their level.

    4) North. No idea what it does, but unless it's significantly more broken than those above it's not going to make much of a difference.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Well, that's an interesting fight.
    Even though I'm an Ichigo fan, I would still say that Bankai against Bankai I would give a victory to Yama as his Bankai gave me much deeper impact, than Ichigo's completed Banaki that he used against Aizen. Ichigo without Mugetsu can't break Yama's insane defense here and can't defend himself from unstopable incineration from Yama's swing.
    Still, with Mugetsu I can see Ichigo winning if he uses his Final Getsuga Tenshou fusing with his Zan, but it will be a one-shot move. If Ichi misses or Yama manages to make Mugetsu weaker with his Bankai's ultimate defense to some degree, than Ichi will be doomed.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Quote Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz View Post
    In my opinion Ichigo destroys him. Yamamoto has four techniques in Bankai yes?

    1) East. The disadvantages of this technique are that he needs to land a hit. He landed 0 hits on Juha Bach. Dangai Ichigo displayed higher base stats so yeah...anyways.

    +The statement he made about it is pretty obviously a hyperbole; if he can destroy anything he cuts, since there were no range restrictions on it, he'd destroy the entire ground upon touching it. Not a portion, but the entirety of the ground. That didn't happen so there are unsaid restrictions on his statement about east. Furthermore, it should still be subject to the laws of reiatsu anyways.

    2) West. It's not an attack, but rather 15 million C of Reiatsu. (Anyone with higher reiatsu than him should get through it and if significantly higher with no problem) Anyways, anyone who has durability at city level or higher should be able to take it. (Since Thermo Nuke's reach tens of millions of degrees at their core; they're basically powered by the same nuclear fusion process as the sun is). Dangai Ichigo displayed a city busting shockwave and then tanked one from Aizen, so he shouldn't have too much trouble getting past it.

    3) South. Zombies, well didn't really work and won't because Yamamoto hasn't killed anyone that Ichigo would possibly be hung up by. Oh and it seems like those skeletons were kind of fodder to guys of their level.

    4) North. No idea what it does, but unless it's significantly more broken than those above it's not going to make much of a difference.
    North seems to be a concentrated projectile form of East. He steps away from Juha Bach (clone lol) and attacks. Where it connects, it disintegrates. At least that's what I figured.

    I think Yama would fair better against Aizen without regeneration. However against Ichigo, pretty pointless. Ichigo wins.

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Ichigo definately destroys him . He outclasses yama in everything basically. Tanking nukes with little damage,busting half a mountain with windpressure,stopping strikes that create craters,slappin away fully powered hadou's in the 90's,blitzing hogyoku aizen. then nearly cutting a guy in half that actually managed to take a direct slash from from a guy that can erase a mountain with mere windpressure. Yeah yama is definately outclassed here.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Tenacious Weezy's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Ok truth is truth but in a case where two fighters have not fought each other you must take feats into account and not imagery feats (crushing mountains and such) but a comparison to other fighters as well as said things (characters always speak truths or at the very least opinions which should be taken as an authors opinion as well from that characters POV.

    Aizen did not want to fight the general commander with his soul slayer.

    This is said by Aizen himself in terms that the general commander would be stronger or more powerful as a fighter with his soul slayer, he also goes as far as to create an espada level creature just to neutralize his soul slayer. The general commander then goes on to beat the breaks out that same espada, then tank his entire bankai himself and then still has the power (although it could have had more to do with the sacrifice) to produce a high level kidou spell. Yes Aizen survived the final attack fairly easily but he completely avoided the bankai.

    Bach beat the general commander but only by stealing his bankai.

    The general commander fought a fake Bach and demolished him in every way however it means nothing because it was still a fake. However Bach never fought the general commander until after he stole his bankai. Now imagine the general commander fighting Wonderweiss with one arm. Who wins?

    Ichigo never beat Transcendant Aizen.

    Urahara did. Ichigo weakened him enough for the wish ball to lose it's faith Aizen and bring him down to level that kidou could work on him. Now while that is an accomplishment compared to what most had did at that point it means nothing if Ichigo LOST HIS POWERS because of it and would have been killed if not for Urahara. If the feat of cutting him in half is enough please realize Isshin, Yourichi, and Gin all finished Aizen off as well.

    I am aware that Aizen was like on hollow mode on dangai Ichigo which would mean something if he had fought anyone else but just like people saying Ulqy in resurrection mode was better than 4? Prove it. Well you can't, fighting a person who can never be judged (Ichigo) and then losing to the strongest mode of them (full hollow and mugetsu) leaves hollow mode Aizen on the unscalable corner (which Bleach has too much of)

    With the two at full power I'm leaning towards the general commander. Ichigo has a speed that is likely unmatched and his strength to break kidou is amazing, he can also tank a bit although his arm was still pretty charred after the Aizen blast. However, I don't see him getting through the fire armor at all and I also believe at full power the general commander releases a ton more heat. Everybody in soul society felt the pressure of his attacks and he was on some kind if time limit before it destroyed soul society (recall the Reason why he tanked his Bankai in KT). However The final GT attack Ichigo pulls off would likely destroy the armor. However I'm imagining Yamamoto blocking the attack by unleashing his own cutting attack at full power. At that point Ichigo is done and Yamamoto is about to let some burning skeletons decapitate him.

    I know I sound crazy but I'm being within reason of feats not just belief. Ichigo has always been fast and precise but never overpowering and The Aizen that lost to Ichigo had been harmed by others before, had never went bankai, and forgot about his shikai completely. I still believe it was the resolution in ichigos reiatsu that beat Aizen more than its actual power (I can't sense his reiatsu?) /rant

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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenacious Weezy View Post
    I know I sound crazy but I'm being within reason of feats not just belief. Ichigo has always been fast and precise but never overpowering and The Aizen that lost to Ichigo had been harmed by others before, had never went bankai, and forgot about his shikai completely. I still believe it was the resolution in ichigos reiatsu that beat Aizen more than its actual power (I can't sense his reiatsu?) /rant
    The Aizen that lost to Ichigo wasn't harmed by others. That form only fought with Ichigo, so, that doesn't hold true. He indeed didn't want to rely on his Zanpakuto power any more, but it was because he thought he was already well above his Shinigami limits, which was a correct assessment. The reason why Aizen couldn't sense his reiatsu was Ichigo's incomparably higher reiatsu after the training.

    It is difficult to compare transcendent beings to the likes of Captain-Commander and Bach, considering the only fight that involved the transcendent beings had them face each other. We just have to go by Aizen's words and he's well above a scalable Shinigami power. So, in this case, we can't base anything on comparable feats, since there isn't any data to base and draw a common comparison.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Tenacious Weezy's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    The Aizen that lost to Ichigo wasn't harmed by others. That form only fought with Ichigo, so, that doesn't hold true. He indeed didn't want to rely on his Zanpakuto power any more, but it was because he thought he was already well above his Shinigami limits, which was a correct assessment. The reason why Aizen couldn't sense his reiatsu was Ichigo's incomparably higher reiatsu after the training.

    It is difficult to compare transcendent beings to the likes of Captain-Commander and Bach, considering the only fight that involved the transcendent beings had them face each other. We just have to go by Aizen's words and he's well above a scalable Shinigami power. So, in this case, we can't base anything on comparable feats, since there isn't any data to base and draw a common comparison.
    Your right about that Aizen never fighting anyone I think what I was really trying to say was that his regeneration carried him through more than his actual speed or strength. If everyone is cutting through him then I don't see a way to gauge ichigos mugetsu accurately. I know what Aizen said about not feeling his reiatsu and I think there's more to it that's all. It's really weird that KT mentioned something like that and has yet to explain it, he may or may not in the end like so many other unfinished ideas he's put up but I kind of ignore for now since in honesty it made no sense in the grand scheme of the story (kind of like fullbringers, Orihimes powers, or that wishing ball) it was more of a hype thing KT does and then farts away still point made.

    Your last statement though is false we may not be able to use feat vs feat basis but I listed scenarios that prove that Yamamoto had more going for him, he's also said he's the strongest shinigami ever. Obviously Aizen and Ichigo aren't just shinigami but Aizen had regen going for him. For Ichigo his fight is not so easily won because of "base stats" or his speed. I'll repeat this Yamamoto never went full power using bankai! He went on a stage by stage basis with the main idea to embarrass Bach. Everyone was worried that he might destroy soul society because of his reiatsu, I don't think Ichigo could have done that on his Transcendant power alone.

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    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Yamamoto Shigekuni VS Post Dangai Ichigo Kurosaki

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenacious Weezy View Post
    Your last statement though is false we may not be able to use feat vs feat basis but I listed scenarios that prove that Yamamoto had more going for him, he's also said he's the strongest shinigami ever. Obviously Aizen and Ichigo aren't just shinigami but Aizen had regen going for him. For Ichigo his fight is not so easily won because of "base stats" or his speed. I'll repeat this Yamamoto never went full power using bankai! He went on a stage by stage basis with the main idea to embarrass Bach. Everyone was worried that he might destroy soul society because of his reiatsu, I don't think Ichigo could have done that on his Transcendant power alone.
    Actually, what Aizen didn't want to deal with wasn't Captain-Commander's Bankai. It was his Shikai, knowing that he won't be going all out to burn the entire dimension into ashes by using Bankai. Shinigami Aizen was inferior to Captain-Commander by looking from any perspective, aside from intellect, and he used his forte to take him out of equation.
    It's true that with Zanka no Tachi, he wasn't trying to destroy everything around him if going full power is what it means. Ichigo probably one had one technique to use in his transcendent state, aside from out of charts melee combat, so, he might not be able to cause such a destruction in similar fashion, but that's hardly important on a one-on-one fight. What it matters is whether Captain-Commander could tank one of Ichigo's attacks or not with his reiatsu. Ichigo cut Butterflaizen, and the likes of Isshin were unable to read Aizen's reiatsu beginning with chrysalis stage, therefore, they weren't even anywhere around that power. I can't say where Captain-Commander stands in this for sure, but he shouldn't be able to feel Butterflaizen's reiatsu, to say the least. Bearing that in my mind, I can't see him defeating Ichigo.

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