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Thread: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

  1. #31
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    @Fayte,

    To say Insight is the same for everyone is wrong.

    Atobe looks at the opponent's body. Nobody else does that.
    Nobody else study's weaknesses in the body.

    If you notice, World of Ice goes to places the opponents body just cannot reach. Its not about predicting.
    He is simply seeing that the opponents body cannot do.

    Sanada cannot mask his skeleton. Nobody can.
    Rai should be what returns this imo.

    Shiraishi spun around backwards on the spot and caught back Disappearing Serve.
    The Higa dudes teleported back and caught shots as well.

    This was BEFORE Rai appeared. Looks like you forgot that Fayte...

    ---------- Post added at 05:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    ...and how are they different again? I said they are the same because BOTH of them read the "environment" as opposed to the "opponent." Momo has read the wind as well (Ch 274 p.03/p.09/p.15). I'm sure you have a greater education than an 8 year old, so you probably know both the sun and the wind have a part in our environment.
    Fuji doesn't have Insight.

    Momoshiro DOES. And its that simple.

  2. #32
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Fuji has instinct, not insight. He can literally feel where the ball is without seeing it. But that'd do nothing against shots that are hit to a spot you cannot physically reach so AK would definitely work on him. WoI may or may not work, since it seems like the type of blind spot located by WoI varies (can be reach, speed, reflex, etc). Any vision related blindspots would have no effect on Fuji.

    Using Rai to return WoI/AK would basically be the same as using Rai to return a shot that goes out of the court. You'd start off in the back wall (so you don't have to run quite as far). At this distance every spot in the court is a blind spot so AK/WoI would reveal no useful information. As soon as you see Atobe hits the ball then you teleport back into the court. Assuming Sanada has only one blind spot, the chance of Atobe guessing correctly is very low so the ball can be returned normally at this point.

    That said I suspect tactics that involve running out of the court and back is probably not something they actually do in POT since nobody actually does that, even though with their described speed this is easily doable. Of course this strat would get beaten by endurance issues since Atobe doesn't have to use WoI/AK every hit but to defend against it successfully you must start outside the court so you'd have to use Rai on every hit.

    I suppose you can do like start inside court, and then immediately teleport 5m to the side the moment Atobe hits the ball, thus changing your existing blind spot. But again there's no visible cue for WoI/AK, and for that matter it seems like he can actually use it on every hit without any noticeable repercussion, so you'll lose on the endurance front if you've to use Rai multiple times on every hit. Note that it takes more than one Rai to return WoI because you got to use Rai once to reset your blind spot, and chances are wherever you teleported to is nowhere close to returning the ball, so you got to use Rai again, so you'd need to use 2 Rais every rally. There's no way that's sustainable.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    @Fayte,

    If you notice, World of Ice goes to places the opponents body just cannot reach. Its not about predicting.
    He is simply seeing that the opponents body cannot do.
    You mean like "predicting" where their body cannot reach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes
    Shiraishi spun around backwards on the spot and caught back Disappearing Serve.
    No, he spun sideways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes
    The Higa dudes teleported back and caught shots as well.
    No, they don't teleport. They step in a way that gives off an illusion of closing a gap quicker than normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes
    Fuji doesn't have Insight.
    "Insight is the understanding of a specific cause and effect in a specific context." -Wikipedia

    Yes he does. Fuji must understand the wind in order to use Hakugei. That is no different than Momoshiro understanding the wind. Just stop trying to make it different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz
    Regarding the whole KnS vs In business, apparently the line Fayte quoted is a mistranslation.
    Sai is the one who translated it to begin with. What is he contradicting himself now? lol.

    Here is the chapter I myself scanlated way back when, and SAI is the one who translated it:
    http://pic.tenmanga.com/comics/16815...71f8ba8ac5.jpg

    "It leaves no trace of weakness."

    Or, if you want to go with what the anime says:

    Spoiler: Without the slightest thread of an opening. show
    Last edited by Fayte; October 22, 2012 at 01:07 AM.

  4. #34
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    You mean like "predicting" where their body cannot reach?
    He sees where the body cannot reach. He didn't predict it. As long as the spot is there and he manage to hit it there, there have been 0 instance of it being return.

    Ryoma make the shot doesn't go to his blind spot. Doesn't mean Atobe see it wrong. WoI is not prediction.

    Seeing and prediction are two different things. Data tennis predict where the ball will go. Atobe see where the ball will go. That's why his insight can hit Mach. His insight doesn't predict where the Mach will go. If your eyes saw a knife slashing at you, do you see it or do you predict it coming? Atobe's eye is just that good.
    Last edited by -Ken-; October 22, 2012 at 01:09 AM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  6. #35
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    Post Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    No, they don't teleport. They step in a way that gives off an illusion of closing a gap quicker than normal.
    I have still contradicted you that they caught techniques that went past them.
    This happened BEFORE Rai. Which you conveniently forget.

    Kintaro also did this with Twist Serve (Before Sanada showed us Rai too).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    "Insight is the understanding of a specific cause and effect in a specific context." -Wikipedia
    There is real life. Then there is PoT.
    In PoT, Shukichiho is exaggerated to how it works in real life.

    Yips also works differently in the real life example to how it works in PoT.
    Wikipedia is irrelevant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Yes he does. Fuji must understand the wind in order to use Hakugei. That is no different than Momoshiro understanding the wind. Just stop trying to make it different.
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27172...apter-275.html

    It has been said. Momoshiro HAS Insight. It's never been said Fuji actually has it.
    Until they say Fuji has Insight should we assume he does.
    Fuji reads wind. Momoshiro reads nature. DIFFERENCE.

  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    It has been said. Momoshiro HAS Insight. It's never been said Fuji actually has it.
    Until they say Fuji has Insight should we assume he does.
    On everything else, I'll bite. This? no. It has never been said that Momoshiro has a brain. Should we assume he actually has one? Obviously Momoshiro has a brain if he has intellectual capabilities such as "insight," yet that is precisely your argument. You claim that simply because it has never been blatantly stated that Fuji has "insight," he must not. When in actuality, what Fuji does (without a defined "insight") has zero difference than what Momo does (with a defined insight). Which by the way, I would like you to show me where it specifically states Momoshiro has insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgimes
    Fuji reads wind. Momoshiro reads nature. DIFFERENCE.
    Because wind isn't a part of nature, right? Also, Momo has not consistently read anything BUT wind, so, yeah...still no difference.

  8. #37
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    It has never been said that Momoshiro has a brain.
    Momo is the character that has won the most points in the series using his brain (he was even called Seigaku's trickster at some point) excluding the data guys.

    ---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Which by the way, I would like you to show me where it specifically states Momoshiro has insight.

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  10. #38
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    It should be noted at this point that Atobe's and Momoshiro's Insight aren't the same. More literally translated, Atobe's is "Vision Power" whereas Momoshiro's is "Perception Ability".

  11. #39
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    I still like the tler who described it as "Freaky Weatherman Momo" in that TN.

    Spoiler show

  12. #40
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    The more info, the better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Someone could explain me the difference between Atobe Kingdom, World of Ice and the Insight that he already had in Kanto Tournament (against Tezuka)?
    Spoiler show

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  14. #41
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    On everything else, I'll bite. This? no. It has never been said that Momoshiro has a brain. Should we assume he actually has one? Obviously Momoshiro has a brain if he has intellectual capabilities such as "insight," yet that is precisely your argument. You claim that simply because it has never been blatantly stated that Fuji has "insight," he must not. When in actuality, what Fuji does (without a defined "insight") has zero difference than what Momo does (with a defined insight). Which by the way, I would like you to show me where it specifically states Momoshiro has insight.



    Because wind isn't a part of nature, right? Also, Momo has not consistently read anything BUT wind, so, yeah...still no difference.
    All this. Ffs.
    I actually gave a link which even Hardy has re-posted for you in a page form.

    It says Momoshiro's INSIGHT. Fayte. You are wrong. You are not correct here.

    It has never been said Fuji has Insight. Until it is said Fuji has Insight, you shall remain incorrect in this situation.
    Momoshiro has been said to have Insight. That is all.

    ---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

    Looking back, I want to add I'm going by Atobe VS Irie and Atobe/Niou VS Ochi/Mouri about whether or not Atobe can hold the focus perfectly to use Atobe Kingdom and World of Ice for several games.
    I don't think he can going by those matches.

    Otherwise he is the best in the camp. If on his serve he can hit it, and then as a return he can hit it.
    He cannot be beaten if we ignore what we saw in his matches and assume he can use it freely as long as he likes and it doesn't have much of a stamina usage.

  15. #42
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Atobe Kingdom/WoI can't be used on serve because as long as the blind spot is not in the upper half of the court you can't possibly hit the ball there due to tennis rules (such a serve would be a fault by definition). We can infer the blind spot located by AK is relatively close to where you're standing (it appears to be a spot you just can't quite reach due to the limit of your arm's flexibility). So all you have to do is stay a bit further back. You'd still have a blind spot but that spot would now be in an illegeal position to serve to.

    Atobe Kingdom clearly has a relatively low activation cost, and there appears to be no price to pay for overusage as opposed to say, TPhantom. It's a strong offensive move that also can defend to some extent (stops Mach Serve) with about a low energy cost to activate as we've seen. It's not guaranteed win but for someone with Ryoma level of plot bailouts, it's about as good a package as you can get. At least, there's absolutely no reason for me to believe it takes more energy to activate AK compared to Rai, let alone something like ZSS.

  16. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    It has never been said Fuji has Insight. Until it is said Fuji has Insight, you shall remain incorrect in this situation.
    Momoshiro has been said to have Insight. That is all.
    Until it has been said that Momo has a brain, he doesn't. Only the characters that have been specifically stated to have brains must have them.

  17. #44
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Until it has been said that Momo has a brain, he doesn't. Only the characters that have been specifically stated to have brains must have them.
    Brain is something every human have. How about knowing that? We can't give insight to Fuji without him mentioning to have it. Otherwise, why can't we give Rai to any characters? Go to extreme on both side, and the argument will sounds ridiculous.

    They find you a page that say Momoshiro have insight specifically. How about you find them a page that say Fuji have insight now. Read what Atobe say, he say "action of Oshitari".

    Fuji haven't shown that yet. He just reads the wind.
    Last edited by -Ken-; October 23, 2012 at 11:56 PM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  19. #45
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    Re: [Bonus Round] Singles 1

    Honestly why would Fuji even need insight? He has basically sixth sense. It beats Saiki which is about as strong as predicative insight goes. Predicative insight would be way inferior compare to what he already possesses normally.

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