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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Kabuto

    9 33.33%
  • Minato/Jman

    18 66.67%
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Thread: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

  1. #136
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenheadedmirror
    But I am, as good and impressive your argument seems the fact that Kabuto would be pounded is very simple. The idea that Kabuto can simply 'shave off' a Rasengan is unproven. Rasengan is essentially one of the most powerful techniques in the manga. Furthermore what possibly can Kabuto do but specially regenerate in this battle?, you have said it well, Jiraya is more powerful than Itachi but Itachi has certain attacks that are harder to counter. So?. They can even take turns and bash his skull against the ground until he stops regenerating (exaggeration to make a point).
    Unproven, I'll give you that. But be serious: we saw Minato hit a man with a Rasengan... a man without regenerative capabilities or superhuman durability, and you know what he did? The one thing he shouldn't have: not die. He screamed in pain... got up, and then hopped to a tree. The manga pretty much shows us that Minato's Rasengan (and this was him trying to end the fight as quickly as possible, so don't try the "holding back" stuff) doesn't get the job done against normal people. So how can you expect it to get the job done against a Perfect Sage?

    Infact, me mentioning the regeneration so much is actually me being EXTREMELY generous. With the Sage durability ontop of the ability to use Kimimaro's kekkei genkai, he can fully tank attacks if necessary.

    Quote Quote:
    The fact that you try to explain that two characters. One blatantly more powerful than Itachi and the other around the same level. Can't have an approximate result to his because of Itachi's tools is biased in the sense that said tools are the measurement to give the levels to begin with.
    Well for clarification, Kabuto fought Itachi and Sasuke at the same time. One of them is Itachi level... cuz he's Itachi. The other is more deadly than Jiraiya, thus close to Itachi level. Maybe not Minato level, but he was armed with abilities more likely to give him a victory against Kabuto than Jiraiya has. Likewise... friggin WHAT in Jiraiya's repertoire gives him a level close to Itachi? It's not the abilities that make them equals (or else Itachi'd be fully superior without question), but rather the hype and how the manga has been set up.

    Quote Quote:
    Also Tsunade on par with Oro and Jiraya?
    Yup. I give her alot of shit, but just because she's not the same type of ninja as them both doesn't mean she's not kage level. She's easily the physically most powerful ninja in the manga sans bijuu or a kekkei genkai, almost immortal based on her own power... she's a beast. Give her some range aswell as Genjutsu and she'd be right up there with the rest of them.

  2. #137
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Come one man I remember you guys (I have been inactive for almost a year), seriously? you trying to say that Itachi's powerful hard to counter techniques are harder to counter than a man that can teleport hitting you (as in I appear but with a kunai in your chest).
    And Itachi basically just needs to look at you and it can be over, which is at least just as deadly (personally I'd even say deadlier).

    Like ninjabot already said, the simple A>B so A>C logic doesn't apply to the Narutoverse... at least if your name isn't Madara or Hashirama or you are a Blonde Hokage Bombshell.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

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  3. #138
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sevenheadedmirror's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Unproven, I'll give you that. But be serious: we saw Minato hit a man with a Rasengan... a man without regenerative capabilities or superhuman durability, and you know what he did? The one thing he shouldn't have: not die. .
    I laughed my ass off in this sentence.

    But Obito has regenerative abilities it's just that Minato smite past them http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/13

    Anyway, Jiraya AND Kabuto would be somewhat a close battle, perhaps with Kabuto on the wining side but seriously; Minato into the mix?.

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    And Itachi basically just needs to look at you and it can be over, which is at least just as deadly (personally I'd even say deadlier).
    .
    The Raikage can sing "can't touch this" against Amaterasu. Nobody can do that with a teleportation jutsu. Specially not one where he appears with the kunai already on your chest.

    Also OFFTOPIC: I never got Hashirama's hype. Hiruzen beat the 1st ass when as an old bastard that had problems breathing after using two shadow clones and he did it in a team up fight vs the 1st ALONG WITH his brother, two against one.
    Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 30, 2012 at 06:31 PM.
    To in infer something and pose it as implied in the source is to justify something.
    The justification that an arc or a story sucks because the author is as tired as us from it can't apply since it's the author's fault it sucks to begin with.

  4. #139
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by sevenheadedmirror
    But Obito has regenerative abilities it's just that Minato smite past them http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/13

    Huh. Completely forgot about that. Even though it did take an entire chapter for that injury to disappear... which wasn't a direct blow anyway (he was grazed by the explosion from a Rasengan, not smashed the way Minato hit Obito when they fought. Now just imagine Obito had Sage Mode active at that point, and would you expect him to even have that neglegable scratch on his arm? Hopefully not. Then? Give him Kimimaro's defensive abilities from his bones... and Suigetsu's liquifaction.

  5. #140
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sevenheadedmirror's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Huh. Completely forgot about that. Even though it did take an entire chapter for that injury to disappear... which wasn't a direct blow anyway (he was grazed by the explosion from a Rasengan, not smashed the way Minato hit Obito when they fought. Now just imagine Obito had Sage Mode active at that point, and would you expect him to even have that neglegable scratch on his arm? Hopefully not. Then? Give him Kimimaro's defensive abilities from his bones... and Suigetsu's liquifaction.
    Meh I don't know I thought it was just to point it out. You know as in, "he can regenerate boys and girls", but fine I'll give you that one... still. For how long? the matter seems to be something on the lines of: he can tank it. But body sized rasengans (Jiraya) and Kunai stabs in the chest or stomach sized Rasengans (Minato) aren't that simple to tank for a long time. He can't regenerate bone, more than that bone CAN be cut (remember his horn?) so it's not like he is super master defence 2nd Raikage ultra 2.0. He has monster sized defence but that's not gonna cut it against this two guys, not together.

    EDIT: also Obito survived a boulder in half of his body and head, when he was a child, that's some mean survival prowess.
    Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 30, 2012 at 06:47 PM.
    To in infer something and pose it as implied in the source is to justify something.
    The justification that an arc or a story sucks because the author is as tired as us from it can't apply since it's the author's fault it sucks to begin with.

  6. #141
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    The Raikage can sing "can't touch this" against Amaterasu. Nobody can do that with a teleportation jutsu. Specially not one where he appears with the kunai already on your chest.
    And how is he gonna implant that Kunai into the chest if the target is protected by something like Raiton Armor, Susanoo, Sand Defense, a Liquid Body or nearly Impenetrable Bones? Just to name a few...

    Quote Quote:
    Also OFFTOPIC: I never got Hashirama's hype. Hiruzen beat the 1st ass when as an old bastard that had problems breathing after using two shadow clones and he did it in a team up fight vs the 1st ALONG WITH his brother, two against one.
    Blame Orochimaru for that... or did you see Hashirama back then pulling any of those Mokuton Techniques Madara is showing us now? For example where was the Wood Dragon? The Pollen Jutsu? Or any of that stuff Obito has shown during his recent flashback?

    That Hashirama-Zombie was barely more then something like one of Kankuro's puppets.
    Last edited by LnDRash; October 30, 2012 at 06:54 PM.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

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    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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  8. #142
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    and... when was it stated Obito was weakened?... also beating your ass while taking charge of the beast you left lose is a win for me. Finally your argument is, as predicted, saying that only genjutsu can defeat Kabuto
    It was shown, what with Madara teaching him everything he currently knows, that Obito was holding back when he fought Minato. He was capable of using alot more then just Kamui in that fight.

    Not once did I claim that only genjutsu could defeat Kabuto. Don't make stuff up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    ALSO your argument is based on the fact that they aren't a team. To me Minato would pound Kabuto without any help but in this match up HE IS TEAMED UP. Meaning Jiraya who is Itachi's level could potentially win against Kabuto with the help of a Sasuke level character (asuming you say Sasuke did anything of use in that battle). Minato is CLEARLY more powerful than Sasuke.
    Alone or as a team, there's nothing they could do. Minato ain't "pounding" Kabuto in the slightest. You keep mentioning "Jiraiya on Itachi's level", as if that's all that matters. And no, Minato isn't more powerful the Sasuke. Faster perhaps, but not more powerful. And there in lies the rub. Itachi and Sasuke had factors like Izanami, Amaterasu, Raiton to negate his liquification, Totsuka blade, things that could get around Kabuto's physical enhancements along with the likes of Susanoo and Sharingan to counter anything he throws at them. Those factors are absent for Jiraiya and Minato. Neither of them have any real means to damage Kabuto permanently and the only defensive trick is Minato flashing around, which was shown not that hard to figure out or counter. If someone like Ee could come up with a method to catch Minato, Kabuto who's much smarter can do just as well. Not to mention, Kabuto has two AOE techniques that would keep Minato and Jiraiya from being able to counter or act.

    Instead of playing just on hype, perhaps actually explaining how they could even hurt Kabuto would be better.

  9. #143
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lemonadez's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Huh. Completely forgot about that. Even though it did take an entire chapter for that injury to disappear... which wasn't a direct blow anyway (he was grazed by the explosion from a Rasengan, not smashed the way Minato hit Obito when they fought. Now just imagine Obito had Sage Mode active at that point, and would you expect him to even have that neglegable scratch on his arm? Hopefully not. Then? Give him Kimimaro's defensive abilities from his bones... and Suigetsu's liquifaction.
    Look at Tobi "left arm".... U do know his left arm is real? not his right arm...
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55672-3...apter-503.html

    Look at there completely it also turn to liquid.

    Minato was able to put a mark on Tobi with 1 rasengan.
    Minato was able to put a mark on Hachibi instantly.


    You know Minato always carry a kunai to him and Kabuto is a type of person who charge towards the target in his Sage Mode form..

    It would be similar to this.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/13

    See the Kunai his Holding? He let it go and Teleported back to it.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/14

    In this 1 attack he still manage to put a Seal.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/15

    See how fast Minato can put up a seal
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/543/3

    Yeah it happen like that. Kabuto body isn't the same as Suigetsu. He need to activate them as a jutsu.


    Minato put the mark on Kabuto Tounge. So everytime he give Oral rebirth through his mouth. The mark wont disappear from him :P

    Still Kabuto cant dodge a Sage Ultimate Rasengan of Jiraiya. his in Sage mode. Sage mode can react faster and detect opponent movement easily. Specially Jiraiya Barrier mode.. If u go back to that fight, that Barrier he put up was so big -.- It even dwarf the size of the Summon animals. Not even 9 dogs manage to hit the frog with that barrier cuz it capable of detecting any movement.

  10. #144
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sevenheadedmirror's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    O
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It was shown, what with Madara teaching him everything he currently knows, that Obito was holding back when he fought Minato. He was capable of using alot more then just Kamui in that fight. .
    And besides your fanboy voice we have, what evidence?. Even Obito made a huge inner speech on how "he had been waiting for this moment all this years", he took control over the kyubi and even, moments before his ass got pounded he thought like a happy child "I win", as if all his efforts had just paid off. He also used Kamui, which is by far his strongest technique... so what on earth gives you that thought?

    Minato does all the stomping you know why?. He is a god-mod. There isn't a character in the manga besides Madara and Hashirama that pose a threat to him and you know why?. He can teleport. Watch all of the moments Minato intervened. Not one time was a hit landed on him, not once (you know except for that moment when he tried to protect his wife and child). Raikage, fastest character in the manga, didn't even grazed him and this is when he was teaming up with Bee another of the most powerful guys in the manga, who make up an ideal team. Fact is for all we know unless Minato is protecting his child he can't be hit, also if he could be hit by a huge attack, he can teleport it away (the same way he did with Kurama's energy ball). Can form seals in a second, turn your summons away from you or grope you and have his next attack pre-hit you, as in he can teleport with that attack already landed. This means that for all we have seen in the manga Minato has about 100% chance to avoid an attack and after he gropes you 100% to land one. He can destroy Kabuto all by himself. The fact that people forgot how much of a badass he is is because his story was revealed. People now think that Hashirama was the badassest ninja in the world because he could use wood, suppress specifically jiubi chakra and heal his wounds without hand seals, which is awesome but why do you even need healing when you can't be touched. As soon as his story is revealed, if it is, his levels of awesome will drop, perhaps just a little but they will drop, it is the mystery that gives a sweet baddassity bonus.

    Now Jiraya is equal to Itachi, that's it, the author has wanted for us to think about it the moment Itachi appeared, they also are compared in all the forums and save for a fanboy on either side people just give them equal ranking. The author does as well. He doesn't have Itachi's OHK attacks but he has attacks that will kill you instantly, as Odama Rasengan, his hair techniques and pretty much EVERY move he does when he is in sannin. For god's sake he fought against three bodies of pain and won, then he fought against six without an arm and not only lasted long but captured a body. Meanwhile Itachi fought the famelic, paralized body of Nagato and needed the help of Naruto and Bee. On the other hand, Itachi pounded Oro's ass easily. So they are tied. The author says so.

    BUT for the sake of argument lets say Minato doesn't have, pfff, Sasuke's level when he fought Kabuto. Let's say he is a wimp. Let's say Jiraya is as well. Then lets, like all of your arguments, ignore that each have actually tools to bring down a powerful opponent and that Itachi has just the right tools to bring everybody down while Jiraya's level is calculated on how much naked girls he peeps at. This is a battle that has at least the destiny of Konoha in his hands, (I mean Kabuto is a serious threat to every ninja in the manga save Madara), so, doesn't Minato have this ultimate card that seals anybody away with the power of death?.

    Which would make me proceed to ask. Doesn't a team of Minato and Iruka is able to defeat any opponent in a 2 on 1 battle just because Minato could very well use that jutsu and leave his companion alive, being hence the winners of any fight?. Theoretically you could even get past Madara and make them fight rikudo, that seal would kill him. Once again exaggerating to make a point.
    Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 31, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
    To in infer something and pose it as implied in the source is to justify something.
    The justification that an arc or a story sucks because the author is as tired as us from it can't apply since it's the author's fault it sucks to begin with.

  11. #145
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonadez View Post
    Look at Tobi "left arm".... U do know his left arm is real? not his right arm...
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-55672-3...apter-503.html

    Look at there completely it also turn to liquid.

    Minato was able to put a mark on Tobi with 1 rasengan.
    Minato was able to put a mark on Hachibi instantly.


    You know Minato always carry a kunai to him and Kabuto is a type of person who charge towards the target in his Sage Mode form..

    It would be similar to this.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/13

    See the Kunai his Holding? He let it go and Teleported back to it.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/14

    In this 1 attack he still manage to put a Seal.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/542/15

    See how fast Minato can put up a seal
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/543/3

    Yeah it happen like that. Kabuto body isn't the same as Suigetsu. He need to activate them as a jutsu.


    Minato put the mark on Kabuto Tounge. So everytime he give Oral rebirth through his mouth. The mark wont disappear from him :P

    Still Kabuto cant dodge a Sage Ultimate Rasengan of Jiraiya. his in Sage mode. Sage mode can react faster and detect opponent movement easily. Specially Jiraiya Barrier mode.. If u go back to that fight, that Barrier he put up was so big -.- It even dwarf the size of the Summon animals. Not even 9 dogs manage to hit the frog with that barrier cuz it capable of detecting any movement.
    Oral Rebirth creates a completely new body, including tongue. And with Kabuto's reaction and speed, along with the flaw of Hiraishin, he'll be able to evade Minato just fine. Same with Jiraiya, since as far as it's been shown, Kabuto's the faster one of the two. Throw in Kabuto's AOE attacks, and he wouldn't even have to get close to them to do damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    And besides your fanboy voice we have, what evidence?. Even Obito made a huge inner speech on how he had been waiting for this moment all this years, he took control overth kyubi and even, moments before his ass got pounded he though like a smile happy child "I win" as if all his efforts were valid.
    Everything I have claimed has been backed up by the series itself. So I'm not the fanboy here. The last flashback showed Madara teaching Obito a bunch of stuff before he died. All that happen before Tobi fought Minato. Same with the Mokuton thing. Fact remains that he had more then just Kamui available ad he chose not to employ it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Minato does all the stomping you know why?. He is a god-mod. There isn't a character in the manga besides Madara and Hashirama that pose a threat to him and you know why?. He can teleport. Watch all of the moments Minato intervened. Not one time was a hit landed on him, not once (you know except for that moment when he tried to protect his wife and child). Raikage, fastest character in the manga, didn't even grazed him and this is when he was teaming up with Bee another of the most powerful guys in the manga, who make up an ideal team. Fact is for all we know unless Minato is protecting his child he can't be hit, also if he could be hit by a huge attack, he can teleport it away (the same way he did with Kurama's energy ball). Can form seals in a second, turn your summons away from you or grope you and have his next attack pre-hit you, as he can teleport with that attack already landed. This means that for all we have seen in the manga Minato has about 100% chance to avoid an attack and after he gropes you 100% to land one. He can destroy Kanuto all by himself. The fact that people forgot how much of a badass he is is because his story was revealed. People now think that Hashirama was the badassest ninja in the world because he could use wood, supress specifically jiubi chakra and heal his wounds without hand seals, which is awesome but why do you even need healing when you can't be touched. As soon as his story is revealed, if it is, his levels of awesome will drop, perhaps just a little but they will drop.
    Um, that's not how it is at all. Minato's teleportation does make him considerably dangerous for most ninjas, but the lack of a powerful offensive limits him. That's what you seem to be ignoring. It doesn't matter if Minato can avoid an attack if he can't take out the one doing the attack. All that means is that the battle will come down to who last longer and Kabuto has the edge on him there with Sage Mode and Uzumaki Dna enhancing his own chakra.

    Not that it matters, because hitting Minato is not an impossible task. Tobi and Ee both have touched Minato, and Kirabi was shown capable of doing so too. Now considering Kabuto has been shown able to react to an instant attack thanks to his Sage sensory, he wouldn't be that put out by Minato's blitz. And even if Minato does manage to land a hit, he doesn't have anything to actually do any major damage to Kabuto. Kabuto can tank a Rasengan with his enhanced body and brush it off. So all Minato would be doing is wasting chakra. Minato can't teleprt Kabuto's attacks away, because not only would that require him to stand still, opening him to attack, but it would only work on attacks coming straight towards him. An AOE attack like Kimimaro's bone forest or Tayuya's genjutsu would be impossible to defend against, even if he teleported to another spot.

    Hashirama's considered a badass because he has a great balance of offense and defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Now Jiraya is equal to Itachi, that's it, the author has wanted for us to think about it the moment Itachi appeared, they also are compared in all the forums and save for a fanboy on either side people just give them equal ranking. He doesn't have Itachi OHK attacks but he has attacks that will kill you instantly, as Odama Rasengan, his hair techniques and pretty much EVERY move he does when he is in sannin. For god's sake he fought against three bodies of pain and won, then he fought against six without an arm and not only lasted long but captured a body. Meanwhile Itachi fought the famelic, paralized body of Nagato and needed the help of Naruto and Bee. On the other hand, Itachi pounded Oro's ass easily. So they are tied. The author says so.
    Itachi has greatly been upgraded since that time, like various characters. Jiraiya and Tsunade together were shown below Orochimaru when they fought, so that should tell you all you need to know. And the issue here is that Jiraiya doesn't have an attack that will kill Kabuto instantly. Anything that could get past Kabuto's Sage defense would still be brushed off with his liquification and regeneration.

    Also I'll point out that he won against the Paths because of Ma and Pa. And Itachi fought against an upgraded Nagato, who Naruto confirmed was much stronger then the Paths, and did it basically alone. And as mentioned, Orochimaru was shown stronger then Jiraiya, beating him when he left the village and then later taking on both him and Tsunade at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    BUT for the sake of argument lets say Minato doesn't have, pfff, Sasuke's level when he fought Kabuto. Let's say he is a wimp. Let's say Jiraya is as well. Then lets, like all of your arguments, ignore that each have actually tools to bring down a powerful opponent as well and that Itachi has just the right tools to bring everybody down while Jiraya is just a school boy. This is a battle that has at least the destiny of Konoha in his hands, (I mean Kabuto is a serious threat to every ninja in the manga save Madara), so, doesn't Mianto has this ultimate card that seals anybody away with the power of death?.
    You clearly ignored what I had said. Minato has the edge over Sasuke in speed, but he lacks Sasuke's powerful techniques. Similarly with Itachi and Jiraiya. You seem to keep ignoring that Kabuto has the advantage defensively. He has liquification, Kimimaro's bones, Orochimaru's durability, and regeneration on top of his Sage Mode enhancement. Simply landing a hit isn't gonna defeat him.

    As for the Shinigami technique, Kabuto has both body switching and liquification to escape before Minato could pull his soul out. And he likely would be able to sense said attack thanks to natural energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Which would make me proceed to ask. Doesn't a team of Minato and Iruka is able to defeat any opponent in a 2 on 1 battle just because Minato could very well use that jutsu and leave his companion alive, being hence the winners of any fight?. Theoretically you could even get past Madara and make them fight rikudo, that seal would kill him. Once again exaggerating to make a point.
    Not really, cause it was implied when Sarutobi used it that if the user dies before sealing, then it won't work. And since Minato would have to stand still to employ it, he would be vulnerable to anyone with a faster attack.

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  13. #146
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sevenheadedmirror's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Not really, cause it was implied when Sarutobi used it that if the user dies before sealing, then it won't work. And since Minato would have to stand still to employ it, he would be vulnerable to anyone with a faster attack.
    Faster attack than teleportation?. That's like saying he just needs to be a real human more powerful than Bruce lee. It violates the principles of physics you have higher chances of manipulating the god particle than attempting such a thing.

    I am tired to argue over the same stuff and have you guys like each other posts randomly, I'm clearly one against three in this discussion and you are reaping likes and thanks. Be a little reasonable with me here.

    Nothing you have said is backed up by the manga. Obito made a huge deal about invading konoha, not giving his all is moronic, he used Kamui, his strongest most powerful technique to try to take Minato (in one hit) but failed. Kabuto is clearly weaker than Obito (cue to you saying he isn't) and Minato took care of him, placing the J-man on top is just retarded.

    Then you say that Itachi has grown from the last fight he had with Nagato to the one he had with Kabuto which is literally seconds away in a chronological order. What the hell backs up that logic besides you saying it is? It doesn't even make sense.

    Kabuto said he had ultra defences but his horn was destroyed effortlessly, he does not have 2nd Raikage defence but above Orochimaru's regeneration (oral revival EATS chakra) you are clearly hyping him up, this discussion has gotten to the point people say that the Rasengan (a human's B-bomb and, naturally, a S-ranked technique that has taken half of the villains in the manga in a normal form, which is smaller than what Minato and Jiraya can do) isn't that powerful! .
    Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 31, 2012 at 01:13 PM.
    To in infer something and pose it as implied in the source is to justify something.
    The justification that an arc or a story sucks because the author is as tired as us from it can't apply since it's the author's fault it sucks to begin with.

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    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    ^ While I'm on the "Kabuto wins" ship, I understand how frustrating arguing in favour of anything that relates to Jiraiya, Minato and Naruto can be in this forum, being in your shoes more than once

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Not that it matters, because hitting Minato is not an impossible task. Tobi and Ee both have touched Minato, and Kirabi was shown capable of doing so too. Now considering Kabuto has been shown able to react to an instant attack thanks to his Sage sensory, he wouldn't be that put out by Minato's blitz. And even if Minato does manage to land a hit, he doesn't have anything to actually do any major damage to Kabuto.
    False, Raikage never hit Yondaime, Tobi touched Yondaime only by taking him by surprise when Yondaime didn't know a thing about his jutsu and Killer Bee hitting Yondaime is bull, since Yondaime could easily teleport again and kill him
    And while its true that Yondaime doesn't have a sure way to end Kabuto, it doesn't mean Kabuto can compete with him in speed

    Quote Quote:
    Also I'll point out that he won against the Paths because of Ma and Pa. And Itachi fought against an upgraded Nagato, who Naruto confirmed was much stronger then the Paths, and did it basically alone. And as mentioned, Orochimaru was shown stronger then Jiraiya, beating him when he left the village and then later taking on both him and Tsunade at once.
    No, Itachi relied heavily on the fact that Nagato was fighting Bee and Naruto at the same time.
    In a 1 on 1, Nagato would've won with Chibaku Tensei.
    Lastly Oro didn't took both of them at the same time, all the while it was a drugged Jiraiya versus him, and Tsunade versus Kabuto.
    The moment the two of them ganged up on Oro, Oro had to flee

    Quote Quote:
    As for the Shinigami technique, Kabuto has both body switching and liquification to escape before Minato could pull his soul out. And he likely would be able to sense said attack thanks to natural energy.
    This is also false, since Orochimaru couldn't use Oral Rebirth nor any other jutsu ( probably Oral Rebirth wasn't even thought up to that point, but still ), he could just remotely guide his lightsaber sword.
    Also Yondaime could take half of Kyuubi's chakra in a jiffy, and we know half of Kyuubi's chakra = 100x Kakashi's chakra, by his own admission, meaning Kabuto would not have the time to do a thing.
    Nor can he sense something that can be felt only by the user, as showed by Orochimaru not seeing nor feeling the Shinigami until it hit him.
    But isn't Shiki Fuuin banned in this fight?

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  17. #148
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    I was about to reply to you pretty much the same things as Rikudou King did, so by being first he saved me up a ton of typing work... thats why I have given him my thanks, nothing more, nothing less, I don't see whats wrong about that.

    And no, you are not alone... you have marshall313 and Lemonadez

    You can always come over though... You'll be welcomed!


    Quote Quote:
    Kabuto said he had ultra defences but his horn was destroyed effortlessly, he does not have 2nd Raikage defence but above Orochimaru's regeneration (oral revival EATS chakra) you are clearly hyping him up
    He does not only have Oral Rebirth... he has:

    Quote Quote:
    Body Fluid Shedding Technique
    Body Shedding
    Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique
    Sage Mode Durability
    Yin Healing Wound Destruction
    Uzumaki Vitality
    Shikotsumyaku
    Body Shedding Technique
    All of those techniques allow him to recover from most damage or avoid it completely. And lets not forget he already survived and recovered from a Rasengan to his gut during part one... when he had only Yin Healing Wound Destruction.

    Thanks to Orochimaru's powers he can probably even pull of a stunt like this:
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v33/c294/10.html
    http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v33/c294/11.html

    So I realy don't see how a Kunai stab or a Rasengan could possibly take him out... you need to burn his whole body to ashes in an instant, otherwise he'll just keep comming back indefinitely, since Sage Mode even constantly replenishes the users chakra instead of draining it.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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  19. #149
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Faster attack than teleportation?. That's like saying he just needs to be a real human more powerful than Bruce lee. It violates the principles of physics you have higher chances of manipulating the god particle than attempting such a thing.
    Teleportation? Again, please read what I write. If Minato is using the Shinigami technique, he has to stand still while preforming it. Minato wouldn't be able to teleport while in the middle of using it, else he would break contact and fail. So in that situation, Minato would be open to a fast attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    I am tired to argue over the same stuff and have you guys like each other posts randomly, I'm clearly one against three in this discussion and you are reaping likes and thanks. Be a little reasonable with me here.
    I'll be reasonable once you start actually using evidence from the series. Just coming in claiming that Minato and Jiraiya win, without providing any sport of actual evidence as to how they would exactly do that, is pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Nothing you have said is backed up by the manga. Obito made a huge deal about invading konoha, not giving his all is moronic, he used Kamui, his strongest most powerful technique to try to take Minato (in one hit) but failed. Kabuto is clearly weaker than Obito (cue to you saying he isn't) and Minato took care of him, placing the J-man on top is just retarded.
    Nothing to back it up. Madara taught him everything he currently knows. And took care of him? Minato landed one hit that did a little damage. He didn't kill Obito or even really defeat him. Landing a hit on Kabuto isn't gonna win the battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Then you say that Itachi has grown from the last fight he had with Nagato to the one he had with Kabuto which is literally seconds away in a chronological order. What the hell backs up that logic besides you saying it is? It doesn't even make sense.
    I never even claimed anything of the sort. I'm guessing you misread my comment about Itachi being upgraded since Part One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Kabuto said he had ultra defences but his horn was destroyed effortlessly, he does not have 2nd Raikage defence but above Orochimaru's regeneration (oral revival EATS chakra) you are clearly hyping him up, this discussion has gotten to the point people say that the Rasengan (a human's B-bomb and, naturally, a S-ranked technique that has taken half of the villains in the manga in a normal form, which is smaller than what Minato and Jiraya can do) isn't that powerful! .
    Kabuto has more then just the Oral Rebirth. He can transform into a bunch of snakes, Suigetsu's liquification ability which negates physical assaults, Karin's regeneration which grants him instant healing, and Kimimaro's bones which grant him powerful durability. On top of all that, he has the physical enhancement granted by Sage Mode, which we know turns a person into a tanking machine. There's no hyping at all, but actual facts shown in the series itself.

    And perhaps I should remind you that Kabuto already took a Rasengan and survived, and that was only with his normal human body and some chakra protection. The Rasengan isn't a threat to him at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    False, Raikage never hit Yondaime, Tobi touched Yondaime only by taking him by surprise when Yondaime didn't know a thing about his jutsu and Killer Bee hitting Yondaime is bull, since Yondaime could easily teleport again and kill him
    And while its true that Yondaime doesn't have a sure way to end Kabuto, it doesn't mean Kabuto can compete with him in speed
    Not hit, touched. There was a bruise on Minato's noses showing Ee had touched him before he had managed to teleport away. And Tobi "touched" Minato twice. How is it bull when Kirabi had thrown out a tentacle quite fae before Kinato even knew what had happen? Had Kirabi aimed for Minato instead of Ee, Minato wouldn't have been aware enough to teleport.

    Kabuto was shown fast enough to avoid Susaoo's arrows, which were noted as being insanely fast. Outside of Hiraishin, Minato wasn't shown all that fast. If Tobi could keep up with him, Kabuto should be able too and shouldn't have much of a problem with with Minato just suddenly appearing due to his sensory ability, especially if he figures out Hiraishin's flaw like Ee did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    No, Itachi relied heavily on the fact that Nagato was fighting Bee and Naruto at the same time.
    In a 1 on 1, Nagato would've won with Chibaku Tensei.
    Lastly Oro didn't took both of them at the same time, all the while it was a drugged Jiraiya versus him, and Tsunade versus Kabuto.
    The moment the two of them ganged up on Oro, Oro had to flee
    Itachi saved them, he didn't use them as a distraction. And in a one on one battle, Nagato wouldn't get to the point of using Chibaku Tensei. Orochimaru did fight both Jiraiya and Tsunade for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    This is also false, since Orochimaru couldn't use Oral Rebirth nor any other jutsu ( probably Oral Rebirth wasn't even thought up to that point, but still ), he could just remotely guide his lightsaber sword.
    Also Yondaime could take half of Kyuubi's chakra in a jiffy, and we know half of Kyuubi's chakra = 100x Kakashi's chakra, by his own admission, meaning Kabuto would not have the time to do a thing.
    Nor can he sense something that can be felt only by the user, as showed by Orochimaru not seeing nor feeling the Shinigami until it hit him.
    But isn't Shiki Fuuin banned in this fight?
    How is it false? Orochimaru doesn't have the advantages that Kabuto have, like Sage sensory. We've already seen Sage Mode allows the user to sense the unseen, like how Naruto sensed the King of Hell. And unless the Shinigami is faster then like Susanoo's arrow, which it doesn't appear to be, Kabuto should very well be capable of dodging it. Don't forget, that both Sarutobi and Minato first prevented their targets from moving, implying that simply throwing out the seal isn't enough. Not to mention, that Minato standing around forming handseals is gonna be a huge tip-off that something is coming.

  20. #150
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Kabuto vs Jiraiya and Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Against Madara's attacks it has. But presumably, Kabuto wouldn't evaporate but turn to jell like Suigetsu did after being hit by the Bijuu Blast, which did evaporate the surrounding sea.
    Bijuu blast is different from a very strong fire attack, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I know. But this Kabuto isn't regular. He's powered with Sage Mode, has regenerative abilities superior to Orochimaru, and can control the land. His defensive capabilities far exceed Orochimaru's.
    Oh, I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Of coruse he is not going to have a tag there but considering the number of giant frogs about (over 8 of them) 2 elder frogs, Jman's shadow clones and so on how imposible do you think its going to be to get a tag next to kabuto?

    Also and yes Minato is here for suport. JMan is here for firepower.
    Very impossible considering Kabuto can sense and move fast. Not only that, but he can use Oral Rebirth, shedding his Hiraishin-marked skin. Even if Minato attacks him, Kabuto can react and use Oral Rebirth.

    Quote Quote:
    Now water evaporate at 100 degrees under 1 atmosphere, the burning oil has temperatures in the thousands of degrees... Kabuto EVAPORATES.

    Also obviously he is not going to be in melee range with he ends up using a ranged jutsu but close enough.
    But Kabuto isn't just water. Hell, he can use Oral Rebirth to avoid damage. I keep saying Oral Rebirth, but it's fucking powerful, and spammed a lot by Orochimaru. Combine that with his chakra scalpel and knowledge of human anatomy and Kabuto can deal serious damage to Minato and Jiraiya from just a little touch.


    Minato at best is defense support. He has no way to hurt Kabuto, considering Naruto's rasengan didn't kill Kabuto or keep him down long enough. Sage Mode Kabuto can not only tank that, but he can heal from it or escape the damage with Oral Rebirth. Hell, nothing is stopping him from using Tayuya's sound genjutsu to affect everyone in range.



    Quote Quote:
    Not really. If the fire jutsu is completly superior and it is then its irrelevant. Its like trowing a water buket into the Sun.
    This jutsu is fired by 3 Sage Mode users... Senjutsu chakra, fire, oil and wind... The little crepy water its not going to do shit.
    It's not irrelevant. Suiton has a great advantage over kaaton, and Kabuto can unleash enough suiton to weaken the Goemon into something easily tanked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Two of which are toads, and the third is an imperfect Sage.
    Kabuto, on the other hand, is a perfect Sage, has jutsus like the Daibafuku ( did I spell it right? lol ) which is even a rank higher than Goemon and has his own abilities greatly boosted by others' abilities.
    Even if he wouldn't be able to completely stop Goemon, a Suiryudan ( B rank ) would slow it down well enough to just be harmless.

    Don't forget Kakashi, someone who needed 2 S rank Raitons to counter Kakuzu's B rank Raiton, managed to halt Kakuzu's combined Fire-Wind ninjutsu with just a Suiton.
    I don't doubt that Kabuto would be able to do the same, considering also he's a better Sage and has the element and rank advantage
    I thought Kakuzu used two raiton or two jutsu, but he definitely had two attacks when it was near Shikamaru adn Chouji. Kakashi needed one raikiri each.

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Hmm... in the Kage Summit Thread I'am reading stuff like this:


    And here its suddenly like this:



    So in essence you are trying to tell us Kabuto murders Sasuke with Itachi present and then suddenly gets stomped by two elderly frogs which got oneshotet by Shinra Tensei..? Makes a lot of sense!

    There was even some post about "Jiraiya being a perfect sage unlike Kabuto" although I can't find it anymore... so either it got deleted or it wasn't from you and its burrowed somewhere between Lemonadez gibberish... because to my shame I have to admit that I sometimes mix up your postings.

    Honestly, if you think those two frogs are "much more powerful" then Kabuto then any arguing is pointless... although personally I doubt thats what you truly believe and instead it looks more like a case of "when Sasuke and Itachi are involved Kabuto needs to be a beast and when something even slightly Minato-related is mentioned he needs to suck".

    Afterall:


    Am I right?
    He's obviously biased towards Minato and Jiraiya and against the Uchiha. No point in arguing with him, it's a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenheadedmirror View Post
    Very well... Minato defeated a man that can't be touched. Obito. That means anyone who can get touched is in one hell of a deal. Jiraya is a man who is on par with Itachi, lets not say superior or inferior because the legendary quarrel of Itachi's quote is nothing less than starting a flame war in a Naruto Forum, who is the man that defeated Kabuto. The only argument you can use to say Kabuto has a slim chance at winning against this overly powerful team is if you somehow state that one must use genjutsu against him in order to gain victory; which is a lie.
    He never defeated Tobi, Tobi got back up like it was nothing and retreated only because he lost control of Kyuubi. Konan and the Root managed to touch Tobi, so did Naruto. Tobi isn't immortal, out of the two, Kabuto is the closest.

    Jiraiya may be on par with Itachi, but it doesn't mean they'd tie. Based on what we've seen, Jiraiya would lose to Itachi. We don't need to use what he said, we can use what both showed.

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