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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
all out battle of teamwork. includes every member, even dead ones. who would win? and who would die?
Zoldycks got Alluka. So at worse it's a double KO.
It'd pretty much go like what happened in Yorknew. The Z would sacrifice someone to take out Kuroro first (the person being sacrificed may or may not actually die, but Kuroro is definitely dead). Without Kuroro the rest of the Spiders have no real strategy/teamwork to speak with so they'll just picked off 1 by 1, but some of them might have a good double KO move at the end so the Zs could lose a few more guys. Probably not their best guys at that point but someone like Gotoh level would be fair game.
The Weak link in the Spider's would be Pakunda, Glasses Girl, Grudge girl, and most innocent looking member that manipulator guy..(Sry don't feel like looking up names)...None of these guy mentioned are just up right weak but they are the Spiders intelligence gathering and aren't main combatants. But of course they can defend themselves pretty well. They are the easiest to Kill and between Silva,Zeno,Great Grand Pa and Illumi It wouldn't be very hard, even for Killua who was able to stripe Yupi of his movements with his Hatsu can most likely devastate them.....Now You have Chrollo, Feitan, Uvo, Nobunaga, World wind punch guy, and that dancer full of acupuncture, (i'm leave Hisoka out since he was a false member)......In my honest Opinion The Zolydyck's stay away from them for a reason there are too many and all are professional Nen users. Silva mentioned the money wasn't worth it for killing one of there members and he seemed to have run into chrollo before he doesn't like that boy 1 bit.....The Assassin Family is out numbered by 2-1 and have 2 members who aren't within the family or against the Spiders at their level of skill or power. They have too many ppl to kill while watching their backs against deadly Nen users..Also gives Chorollo too much time to steal their abilities....The Spiders 4 the win!
Let's consider who the Zs have available, using all the characters available (including people who may have died):
Maha, Zeno's father, Zeno, Silva, Killua, Ilumi, Kalluto (who is good enough to get a spot in Spiders), Gotoh, Tsubone, Amane, Canary, and possibly other butlers.
Spiders have 13 guys (including Hisoka).
Of those, Kuratopi, Shizuku, and Pakunoda are definitely not combat specialists at all. They're there for their noncombat special abilities and none of them impact the combat in a meaningful way.
Shalunark probably won't be able to do anything useful because he'd get killed pretty early on given the Zs can easily figure out the guy that's always hiding way in the back must have a pretty nasty ability.
So you got 11 versus 9 or 10 so the Zs have a slight numbers advantage. Perhaps the weaker end of the Spiders are stronger than the weaker end of the Zs, but then the stronger end of the Zs are stronger than strongest of the Spiders (e.g. Zeno can definitely kill Kuroro, his only concern is whether it'll be a double KO).
Now the key point is that the Spiders pretty much have no strategy whatsoever if not led by Kuroro. Most likely you'll see them walk up one at a time and get jumped by five Zs and die immediately without Kuroro. So the question is how long does Kuroro stay alive. The Zs seem to be quite aware that they need to take out the brain first and Kuroro at best can only double KO another Z and even that is iffy (double KO basically because we don't know what abilities he have, but that's the best he can do).
Remember that Silva already killed a member of the Spiders and the Spiders did not even try to hunt him down. There's a pretty significant gap between the most powerful Zs and the most powerful Spiders, and Zs actually have a lot of powerful guys in general (butlers are at least a match for Spiders in physical abilities, given Gotoh gave Hisoka a pretty good fight). Kuroro has superior tactics compared to anyone in the Zs, but the Zs are experienced enough to know that they need to eliminate the brain first.
Maha was suppose to be Zeno's father but Tagoshi Retconned this and he is his Grandfather, I believe it's safe to say Zeno's Father is dead. Kalluto impressively is a Spider at his age but obviously is probably their weakest member aside from their special intelligence membersQuote:
Come on Phanton Hisoka is over kill! He's basically Neck&Neck with Illumi. And his Tattoo was a fake he was only a Spider to fight Chorollo, which real Spider members seem to have no interest in. I don't think we should count him Just cause he was faking his allegianceQuote:
Shalunark is part of this group but his ability is just easily replaceable. He actually isn't bad when he controls himself but Yea these guys are gonna get slaughtered. But Shizuku sucking out blood is pretty darn kool, Lol anyways The Spiders are gonna be protecting these members in any fight. Which seems to be Uvo and Nobunaga's dutyQuote:
I see Ilumi tactically taking him out fast with a little help from Kalluto would make the process Swifter not like he needs any assistance.Quote:
Chrollo lacks physical strength among the Spider's but his Hatsu, Skill and knowledge are most likely #1 in the Spiders. Chrollo obviously has an assortment of Hatsu but he was defensive due to the fact that he was up against Zeno and Silva, I'm also betting on it that he knew if Illumi got rid of the Dons they wouldn't proceed with their Assassination, So he was confident in his ability to go on the defensive and hopefully gain some abilities from the 2. That being said he most likely holds some nasty offensive abilities in his book, that could match Zeno's Dragon Head n Dragon Dive, I believe that's why Zeno made that comment.Quote:
Shalnurak is one of their Key strategist. Also and The Spiders are Prideful not stupid they would take The Z's 1 on 1 but not more than that. They understand their skill and strength, they have a pre-teen from their family in their ranks they know they aren't too be trifled with which probably why they didn't go after Silva and the Z's in the past. Only Body Guard I see being Capable is Tsunaborne who seems to be a skilled Nen user Amanme seems a lil skilled close to Canary but she seems to be Tsunaborne's Tranmurter user for her vehicle's, Aise from Tsunaborne they are gonna die pathetic deaths. Gotoh was capable too still not spider's level though.Quote:
Re-read Gotoh's death he had a good analysis on how to counter Hisoka's abilities given their description but Hisoka disposed of him with ease. Spider's aren't gonna describe their Hatsu to him and he seems to be an enhancer who relies heavily on his coin ability I believe Franklin's Emission to be stronger despite him being an enhancer.Quote:
Zeno, Maha, Silva and Illumi are up agains't...Chrollo, Feitan, Uvo, Nobunaga, Swingy arm dude, Franklin....The 1st 3 are strong as Hell and Uvo fighting with the spiders isn't as susceptible to Conjurer's and manipulators, with them backing him up he's going to fight much smarter. Feitan showing against the Ant which was a commander ant showed that he was out of shape and warming up throughout the fight. His speed was amazing and his Hatsu which he possess several forms as mentioned by Swingy arm dude(I'm being rlly lazy into researching names plz excuse me) but that Sun move was crazy and can take out multiple opponents. Nobunaga I believe isn't as strong as we may think he is I think all The Z family aside from Kalluto can take him. Franklin is gonna be a bit difficult seeing his brute strength was just under Uvo if i remember correctly..And the Dancing Dude is very versatile.
Now Silva did kill a member which I Believe this event is going to be touched upon in the HXH movie. What we know is that it wasn't an walk in the park for him, during that time he encountered Chrollo maybe even fought agains't him too, and since then told his family to stay away from the Spiders and probably wouldn't take another job to kill them unless It was himself, Zeno, Maha or Illumi and i'm sure it wouldn't be a solo job...As Seen Illumi corporated Kalluto's help to replace Hisoka while he went to go fight Chrollo.
Considering everything I'm going to give it to the Z family only because Their Top Tier Fighters outclass the Spider's in Skill and Power. But The Spider's are just a notch or two down from them and are still deadly. Killua also with his ability was able to stripe Yupi of movement by simply being to fast to counter and repeatedly being hit which his lighting causes paralysis. The ant's Nen and durability or much higher than any Human's can be and Killua still managed this feat . So the effects are gonna be much more severe against an Human and the only way to counter this would be to have an auto-defense. So Killua can kill a Spider with Mid-difficulty..
I don't know about that. Spiders are class A (or S? I don't remember) criminals in the HxH world which means they're pretty much as bad as it gets. I doubt Killua is top tier simply because of that ability. I mean Yupi was having trouble hitting Shoot as well so obviously he's an Uvo type sorta guy that tanks blows and dishes them out rather than bobbing and weaving.
Shoot's hand were really fast, so fast Killua with great agility couldn't dodge them..He also rode on top of his hands for the 1st time feeling the groove of the battle and pushed himself passed his limit. Yupi never got a solid hit on him and that's a feat within itself he was only grazing him with his tentacles which still held enough power after enough blows to take him down....I'm not saying Killua is Top-Tier but his Hatsu is. If you look back on the chapters Yupi could have made eyes, extra arms, or release spikes from his body same way he did against Shoot. But Killua's Hatsu's stole all of his movement's meaning he was way to fast to even react too and it was paralyzing him...Yupi like you said is a Tank but he did block morau's attack with his pipe other than that no body dared to really attack him for him to be able to dodge...Yupi being a Tank was stopped in his tracks by Killua's 1st display of his ability and was hopelessly unable to fight back........So Killua Imo can take Pakunda,Karutopi or Shizuku with his ability...For the only way to counter him is a=having an auto-defense/counter ability or really high durability where you'll be able to survive repeatedly life threatening attacks.
I fear Illumi in this fight. He is at the same level of Hisoka, at least he says so. And Hisoka must be somewhere close to Kuroro to try to challenge him, so I think that actually Silva, Maha and Zeno are overkill together. Let's remember that Maha was the guy who has perfect killing scores, being Netero the only survivor after his fights.
Killua with Kanmuru can easily outmatch any speeder as Feitan.
But the Z kids don't have nearly a quarter of the experience that the spiders have, to be honest. So If they fight, I expect only one or two survivors of each side.
I agree I see very few survivors on each side. The Spiders have the numbers with only 3 not specializing in combat at all but still not being useless. Like What if Franklin barrages them with Emission bullets, Machi sets up a bunch of booby trapped Wires with IN. UVO waits to tank somebody, Chrollo can change the position of his Spiders in a favorable advantage to them plus other unknown abilities...Hisoka and Bungee Gum.....I say both parties walk away before they wipe each other out completely....But I think The Spider's have a lot of ways to use their Team Work. Compared to the Z's who are mostly individually stronger than most of the Troupe but still can't take them too lightly.
Hypothetical Scenario: Kalluto is discovered as a traitor and is thus executed by the other Troupe members. The Zoldycks want to take them out.
This is current Phantom Troupe and Zoldyck Family... Hisoka is excluded, Uvogin and Pakunoda are dead, and Chrollo doesn't have his powers.
Extra Scenario: Same deal except Chrollo has his powers.
If the oldest member of the Zoldyck is anywhere near Netero's level then the Troupe is screwed.
The problem with this is that we haven't seen some notable members of the Zoldyck Family in action. Quite frankly, the status of some of their members remains unknown. When you say the Zoldyck family, are you including the entirety of the five generations? There's a whole lot of wiggle room in this.