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Thread: Jammin's Mancave

  1. #106
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    So, political science, ... nice!

    About ToG, you said you have almost religious affection for Androssi. I remember, some weeks ago someone wrote in the current chapter discussion thread that an author can't develop properly a character greater than him... I confess you that comment makes me think of you: "It's Jammin alter ego"...

    ---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

    You like pairing talk, and ToG. I think ToG is like a love & tragic story. In the thread about pairing I said the question about who is the girl for Baam is probably the most important of the story, because many things have to happen to make believable the event that Baam gets to love another girl, and when that will come to happen the story will reach its end. What you think about it?
    Last edited by ukimix; May 08, 2013 at 12:30 AM.

  2. #107
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    So, political science, ... nice!

    About ToG, you said you have almost religious affection for Androssi. I remember, some weeks ago someone wrote in the current chapter discussion thread that an author can't develop properly a character greater than him... I confess you that comment makes me think of you: "It's Jammin alter ego"...
    Haha, I think whoever said that was mistaken. Authors are rarely as great as the characters they create. They are just people after all. Some authors are good at different aspects of writing. For SIU I think that specialty is general creativity and character creation. He really has a vivid vision of a whole world completely different than our own and his ability to populate that world with different and interesting characters has always been impressive. I think the areas in which he has a long way to go yet are plotting and long term character development. Those are areas I think there is a lot of room for improvement for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    You like pairing talk, and ToG. I think ToG is like a love & tragic story. In the thread about pairing I said the question about who is the girl for Baam is probably the most important of the story, because many things have to happen to make believable the event that Baam gets to love another girl, and when that will come to happen the story will reach its end. What you think about it?
    I think the big barrier is going to be Baam himself.

    Getting Baam to become the sort of character who could fall in love with a girl is going to require some work on SIU's part. Because love is a two way street as they say. I think it would probably be easier for SIU to just go the "Loads of girls fall in love with the protagonist but nothing ever comes of it" route. That would be the safe thing for him to do but I hope he goes another direction. Regardless though, I'd like to see SIU at the very least start experimenting with that.

    Maybe start with Wangan or Leesoo as a trail runs.

    The Traveler/Emilie thing doesn't really count since the romance subplot seems to have been created with the character.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 15, 2013 at 11:01 PM.
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    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

  3. #108
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    I fact SIU has already drawn some lines about the theme of love. I think Androssi could be his first trail, since, as Emile said, she's a woman who teach that you have to date not to fall in love, but wants to be loved. Such a great base to develop a love story... :-)

    ---------- Post added May 10, 2013 at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was May 08, 2013 at 09:22 PM ----------

    If you are not reading it, and talking about fantastic characters, you should give it a try to Nanatsu no Taizai.

  4. #109
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    I fact SIU has already drawn some lines about the theme of love. I think Androssi could be his first trail, since, as Emile said, she's a woman who teach that you have to date not to fall in love, but wants to be loved. Such a great base to develop a love story... :-)
    I agree that it could be the base for good romance for Baam but I think the area that ToG needs to work on most is the male side. That's where I'm a little unsure of SIU's ability to do it well. What I mean by that is building one of these supporting characters as special to him in the way that is necessary for a good romance plotline to work.

    I think that's the part of romance plotlines that get fouled up most often. A good love story can't just be "love". It needs to be a sense of connection and importance between two characters powerful enough to lead into love. That's how love stories attain a feeling of true depth. I think how he regarded Rachel was the closest SIU's characterization of Baam has ever come to that but even that fell somewhat short since it proved to be more "obsession" than "connection".

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    If you are not reading it, and talking about fantastic characters, you should give it a try to Nanatsu no Taizai.
    I've read through a bit of it. Didn't really catch me to be honest. The world the story creates just didn't pull me in.
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

  5. #110
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    1st on my list is Great Teacher Onizuka. The humor and the drama made this series such a powerful and great read.

    2nd very close behind is Full Metal Alchemist. Which is probably my favorite completed action series of all time

    3rd would have to be Usagi Drop

    Then in some order comes...
    • Superior†
    • Mahou Sensei Negima!
    • Inuyasha
    • Change 123
    • xxxHoLic
    • Veritas (assuming Manhwa count)
    How could Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou not be there, uhm?

  6. #111
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    How could Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou not be there, uhm?
    I haven't read that one. Should I?
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

  7. #112
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I haven't read that one. Should I?
    Is it possible to make poetry in a manga, I mean vivid and subtle poetry with the drawings of a comic? And I have to say that I don't know much about manga. But, to me that is a remarkable accomplishment of this story, and of all Hitoshi Ashinano's works. 'The guy is a poet', I wrote some days ago about him. So it's possible you'd end loving YKK, if you decide to give it a try. You are very welcome to join us in the collective reading of it. We are reading a volume per week, and now we are in volume 6. But of course, your posts about the first volume will be very welcome by the readers :-)

    On a comment aside, I already read all Noblesse chapters. I guess that manhwa is about a particular aesthetic, mainly focused on male good lucking guys. It's not a deep story with interesting thoughts; with the exception of Rai and Franki the characters lack of complexity and are rather plain. I'll keep reading to see what happens with those both guys. :-)

    ---------- Post added July 28, 2013 at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was July 27, 2013 at 09:01 PM ----------

    I see now I wrote as a blind fanatic of poetry, which I can be. Of course if you don't like poetry, my suggestion won't sound attractive to you. Still, aside of my poor suggestion, it would be nice if you give it a try.

    A note from wiki:

    Quote Quote:
    The series depicts the daily life of a robot who runs a coffee shop some time after the Earth's ecology has collapsed. It is noted for its beautifully spare pen-and-ink drawing style, as well as its calm, meticulously paced stories and engaging characters.[4] Yokohama Kaidashi Kikō won the 2007 Seiun Award for best science fiction comic.

  8. #113
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    Is it possible to make poetry in a manga, I mean vivid and subtle poetry with the drawings of a comic? And I have to say that I don't know much about manga. But, to me that is a remarkable accomplishment of this story, and of all Hitoshi Ashinano's works. 'The guy is a poet', I wrote some days ago about him. So it's possible you'd end loving YKK, if you decide to give it a try. You are very welcome to join us in the collective reading of it. We are reading a volume per week, and now we are in volume 6. But of course, your posts about the first volume will be very welcome by the readers :-)

    ---------- Post added July 28, 2013 at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was July 27, 2013 at 09:01 PM ----------

    I see now I wrote as a blind fanatic of poetry, which I can be. Of course if you don't like poetry, my suggestion won't sound attractive to you. Still, aside of my poor suggestion, it would be nice if you give it a try.

    A note from wiki:
    I'm not a huge peotry guy to be honest but I'll check Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou out. I've gotten kind of busy over the last few weeks but hopefully I'll be able to join in on the collective reading later this week. I've been busy enough I haven't even read today's ToG yet believe it or not.

    As for whether or not comics can be poetry. I don't see why not. Although I tend to think of poetry as being "an artful use of language" and I can think of quite a few comics and anime achieve that to great effect.(Gintama and Monogatari jump to mind). Anything visual I mentally categorize as "Art". Which sometimes when done well can absolutely take your breath away even in comic form but I'm not sure I'd ever relate that to the peotry. I think those are two separate aspects, if that makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    On a comment aside, I already read all Noblesse chapters. I guess that manhwa is about a particular aesthetic, mainly focused on male good lucking guys. It's not a deep story with interesting thoughts; with the exception of Rai and Franki the characters lack of complexity and are rather plain. I'll keep reading to see what happens with those both guys. :-)
    Noblesse definitely suffers from Bishōnen-itus but I'm of the opinion that if anything that just gets in the way with what it does well.

    Noblesse as the title indicates is about Noblesse Oblige the concept that Spiderman's late uncle best summarized when he said "With great power comes great responsibility.". Noblesse at it's best is about an all powerful being whose obligated by that power to give everything he has to protect and help those around him. And then watching that conflict with other super-powered beings that believe "Might makes right". I'm hopeful it can one day go even beyond that, by cleverly using the character Shin Woo, but it hasn't really managed it so far.

    As I said in my last review I think Noblesse is suffering quite a lot right now from the attention that it's author and artist are giving their other, and in my opinion lesser, series Ability. Which has caused the series to feel like it stalled out to some degree but I'm confident it will get back on track eventually.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 15, 2013 at 10:58 PM.
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

  9. #114
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I'm not a huge peotry guy to be honest but I'll check Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou out. I've gotten kind of busy over the last few weeks but hopefully I'll be able to join in on the collective reading later this week. I've been busy enough I haven't even read today's ToG yet believe it or not.
    It'll be great that you join us. Currently only two guys are posting, among 8 or 9 people who confirmed their participation. Tbh, I have discover that readers classify in both groups: the group of the readers, and the group of the reader who like to write about what they read. I belong to the second one. That's why all my engagement in the collective reading project (which involves to write posts about a common reading). I guess most of the people who say: "count me in" belongs to the first group. That should be part of the reason no many people post comments about the comics we have been readin in that project. In my classification of the readers, you could easily belong to the second group, because you like to write :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    As for whether or not comics can be poetry. I don't see why not. Although I tend to think of poetry as being "an artful use of language" and I can think of quite a few comics and anime achieve that to great effect.(Gintama and Monogatari jump to mind). Anything visual I mentally categorize as "Art". Which sometimes when done well can absolutely take your breath away even in comic form but I'm not sure I'd ever relate that to the peotry. I think those are two separate aspects, if that makes sense.
    I'd add to your definition of poetry that it could be applied to comics, since the drawings can also be counted as another kind of language, if not an alphabetical one. You could also think that a dancer can make poetry, if you think that the movements of dance are like the signs of a language.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Noblesse definitely suffers from Bishōnen-itus but I'm of the opinion that if anything that just gets in the way with what it does well.

    Noblesse as the title indicates is about Noblesse Oblige the concept that Spiderman's late uncle best summarized when he said "With great power comes great responsibility.". Noblesse at it's best is about an all powerful being whose obligated by that power to give everything he has to protect and help those around him. And then watching that conflict with other super-powered beings that believe "Might makes right". I'm hopefully it can one day go even beyond that, by cleverly using the character Shin Woo, but it hasn't really managed it so far.

    As I said in my last review I think Noblesse is suffering quite a lot right now from the attention that it's author and artist are giving their other, and in my opinion lesser, series Ability. Which has caused the series to feel like it stalled out to some degree but I'm confident it will get back on track eventually.
    What is Bishönen-itus?

    I like the association that uncle made between responsibility and power. But I wouldn't pretend that much of Noblesse, simply because the authors seems to be involved much more with the aesthetic than with making a strong development of their main characters. Iow, they prefer to draw good locking guys and cool fights than to go into the depths of Rai or Franki's personalities. The worst case was the one of these three dolls, (that's how I call them):



    Given their stories, it's a bit far-fetched to see them guarding together the halls of a school. Always that I see them walking together, perfectly in step, I can't avoid to think they are walking through a runaway, presenting some clothes of Giorgio Armani or some elegant brand
    Last edited by ukimix; July 28, 2013 at 09:49 PM.

  10. #115
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    I'd add to your definition of poetry that it could be applied to comics, since the drawings can also be counted as another kind of language, if not an alphabetical one. You could also think that a dancer can make poetry, if you think that the movements of dance are like the signs of a language.
    I guess I just think of poetry as something more specific than that. Something inherently focused on the literary side. What your referring to I just call "art" which carries a much broader definition meant to cover things like Dancing.

    That being said I've never been huge on poetry for it's own sake. Like, I would never sit down and read poems. That's just not something I would ever want to do but I can appreciate it when a manwha, manga, or anything really uses language to says something in a way that perfectly relays both thought and emotion.

    I'll use 2 Gintama quotes as an example.

    "The country? The skies? You can have them. I’m busy just protecting what’s right in front of me. I don’t know what’ll happen to me in the future, but if something has fallen at my feet, then the least I can do is pick it up."
    ~ Sakata Gintoki

    "Weep and ask for help. Lean on me with your runny nose. Cry when you feel like crying. Laugh when you feel like laughing. When you're tearing up with an ugly face, I'll give you a good cry with an uglier face. When you're laughing so hard your stomach hurts, I'll laugh in a louder voice. That's how it should be. It's far better to get dirty while living true to yourself, than to throw away yourself and die a clean death."
    ~ Sakata Gintoki

    It's lines like those which I like because they relay so much about a character and deliver it perfectly. In ToG Androssi has some similarly great lines in season one when she explains betrayal to Baam.

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    What is Bishönen-itus?

    I like the association that uncle made between responsibility and power. But I wouldn't pretend that much of Noblesse, simply because the authors seems to be involved much more with the aesthetic than with making a strong development of their main characters. Iow, they prefer to draw good locking guys and cool fights than to go into the depths of Rai or Franki's personalities. The worst case was the one of these three dolls, (that's how I call them):



    Given their stories, it's a bit far-fetched to see them guarding together the halls of a school. Always that I see them walking together, perfectly in step, I can't avoid to think they are walking through a runaway, presenting some clothes of Giorgio Armani or some elegant brand
    Bishounen means "pretty male character" implying that they at least somewhat are feminine. And there is absolutely no question that Noblesse artist does that.


    This is a "male" character in his other series Ability... hard to believe, I know.

    Tao, Takeo, and M-21 are definitely Bishi's but they're role in the plot I think is very defined. They are, as their self proclaimed title of Raizel's Knights suggests, Knights. They found a lord they think is worth serving in Raizel and that's what they do. In a way Raizel is the Lord of his little domain and they as knights protect it. I think that's very much what the core of their characters are. I have to admit I don't think any of them are particularly strong as individual characters though. Some of the weakest parts of last arc were the parts focusing on them because it often felt fairly pointless. I think they are solid side characters though even if they don't really belong in the spotlight. As for how they look. That's just how the artist chooses to draw them and it's up to you how you feel about that.


    I think it's all worthwhile for the times when the artist turns his attention to female characters.
    Last edited by Jammin; August 15, 2013 at 10:57 PM.
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

  11. #116
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I guess I just think of poetry as something more specific than that. Something inherently focused on the literary side. What your referring to I just call "art" which carries a much broader definition meant to cover things like Dancing.

    That being side I've never been huge on poetry for it's own sake. Like, I would never sit down and read poems. That's just not something I would ever want to do but I can appreciate it when a manwha, manga, or anything really uses language to says something in a way that perfectly relays both thought and emotion.

    I'll use 2 Gintama quotes as an example.

    "The country? The skies? You can have them. I’m busy just protecting what’s right in front of me. I don’t know what’ll happen to me in the future, but if something has fallen at my feet, then the least I can do is pick it up."
    ~ Sakata Gintoki

    "Weep and ask for help. Lean on me with your runny nose. Cry when you feel like crying. Laugh when you feel like laughing. When you're tearing up with an ugly face, I'll give you a good cry with an uglier face. When you're laughing so hard your stomach hurts, I'll laugh in a louder voice. That's how it should be. It's far better to get dirty while living true to yourself, than to throw away yourself and die a clean death."
    ~ Sakata Gintoki

    It's lines like those which I like because they relay so much about a character and deliver it perfectly. In ToG Androssi has some similarly great lines in season one when she explains betrayal to Baam.
    I can agree with it, even if I was giving another meaning to the word 'poetry'. But I should have to point that if 'art' is the general category, and 'poetry' among many other thing is some kind of art (specialized in literature side and in the use of alphabetical languages"), then term 'art' doesn't describe precisely that kind of art that can be achievement by a mangaka in his work. It's not painting, not poetry, not theatre, not film, but its a mixture between drawing and literature. Well in that specific genre, still to be named, that mixture can just be another superb expression of human arts. (Which is interesting since the common idea about comics doesn't have to do much with art).

    For instance, I haven't read Gintama; but I guess that those breathtaking lines are much more than texts, they are part of a music, to say it so, in which the drawings also play its role. That is that particular kind of art that could only be properly attributed to a comic, I guess.

    But I won't tell nothing about YKK achievements until you have read it :-)

    ---------- Post added August 13, 2013 at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was July 29, 2013 at 03:28 PM ----------

    How are you going with YKK? I'd like to keep our conversation about some mangas as breathtaking art in the thread.
    :-)
    Last edited by ukimix; July 29, 2013 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Chapter 24 is still pinned to my bookmark toolbar but I haven't managed to get back to it yet. As most of my free time has being sacrificed to video games recently. Those video games being Divinity Dragon Commander and Warframe. Both of which are really addicting. I'm hopefully I'll be resuming it by the end of the week but Tales of Xillia is sitting beside my PS3 right now....so we'll have to see about that.
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Jam Jam - how ya meen mate?
    You might have mentioned this before in other places but Im going to ask here.

    Recent thoughts on the last few chapters?
    Spoiler show


  14. #119
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Jam Jam - how ya meen mate?
    Pretty good though busier than I would like. Family tends to just "show up" for visits in the summer when you live out in the country. So I've been cooking a lot of meals and entertaining a lot of children. Which is great and all but it also gets kinda old when it happens like every 3 days for 4 consecutive weeks.

    I hate being social...I wanna drink tea and read!

    None of that stopped me from somehow sinking 100+ hours into Warframe in the last 3 weeks though (it's always funny when steam horrifies you with numbers like that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    You might have mentioned this before in other places but Im going to ask here.

    Recent thoughts on the last few chapters?
    Spoiler show
    Spoiler show


    What do you think?
    Last edited by Jammin; August 15, 2013 at 11:06 PM.
    Jammin's Recommended Reading
    The Gamer [Esp. for Everybody]
    I Don't Want This Kind of Hero [Esp. for Superhero/Comedy fans]
    Girls of the Wild's [Esp. for Romance/Martial Arts fans.]
    Ultimate Legend: Kang Hae Hyo [Esp. for Delinquent/Comedy fans]
    Otogi Taisen Fantasma [Esp. for Harem Fans]

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  16. #120
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    Re: Jammin's Mancave

    Drink all the tea - you want to brah .

    The flashbacks have felt somewhat boring to me.
    I hope that the flashbacks won't end with a training arc or event.
    Character development is always welcomed, however.


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