One Piece 687 Discussion

[Lozmaster]

Doesn't Monet have to be tangible to bite the Swordlady? I think that the first slash has nothing to do with haki.

No. There is no reason for her whole body to be solid, just her teeth. Even then, there also seems to be a one way street with logia fruits: You can hit other people while intangiable, but they can't hit you without haki.

For example, Smoker is always able to hold His "Jutte", and attack with it, regardless of how much of his body he has turned in to smoke. Or when whitebeard stabbed Aokiji through the stomach with his halberd, Aokiji was able to grab the halberd with his hands here.

http://www.mangareader.net/103-41586...apter-567.html

[Rody naruto]

Doesn't Monet have to be tangible to bite the Swordlady? I think that the first slash has nothing to do with haki.

The point that you missing is that tangible or not a logia cannot be hurt enless you use haki and this panel is a good example of it .Monet got shot while she was still tangile and her reaction when she got hit is a proof of it .She got hit then on the next panel she changed herself into snow and the bullet went through.And then when she attacked Tashiki,Monet was also in her tangible form but this time she got hit by Zoro and bleed.So it is clear that the fact that she is tangible or not has nothing to do with fact that she was bleeding.Zoro did hit her with haki.
If some of you guys need a better understanding of how Logia Devil fruits works One piece Wikia might give you a hand

[ukimix]

Doesn't Monet have to be tangible to bite the Swordlady? I think that the first slash has nothing to do with haki.

Just in case that you and others don't know it:

....see...? An important conclusion is

ICE DOESN'T BLEED.

So, in this cut:

the true is that:

Zoro used haki.

There is no other way to explain

THE BLOOD IN MONET'S FACE.

Merci, Danke shön, Arigato, Gracias, thanks

[mattiaildivino]

Doesn't Monet have to be tangible to bite the Swordlady? I think that the first slash has nothing to do with haki.

she is not like obito,that has to either be tangible or intangible,she can attack while being intangible,cause her intangibility isn't actually a real "missing-space",but rather an "immortal body",in fact heat can damage it.

[jarlinn]

But have we seen him trying to punch someone without freezing them?

If I remember correctly then Ace had some trouble making a hat for Orz in Wa no Kuni, he was always burning them. I believe that it implies that his "fire" state is the original state for him since he ate the fruit and that he would have to stop being a fire to continue making it. When Caribou attack the Sunny underwater he got kicked by Sanji and bled after it. After that Franky had a monologue where he explained that Caribou was a devil fruit user and a logia at that, and that he intentionally let them hit him. His "real" body got hurt.

That makes me think that they can make themselves vulnerable and it might even be necessary for some attacks.

It is possible that in chapter 604 where Sanji kicks Caribou he's using Haki but I can't see anything that indicates that and there shouldn't be a necessity for him to use it since at that time they were unaware of the fact that he was a devil fruit user.

[Zehahaha]

Ukimix, your post made my day haha

About Monet, again she can make her snow hard, and even sharp as she showed with her Snow Sword technique

[k-dom]

Logia can probably be armed when they are in their human form. That's hinted when Caribou his beaten by Sanji or when Luffy bumped into Smoker and Ace but Monet is not in her human form so there is no question about what Zoro used (Cf Ukimix post above)

[jarlinn]

Fair enough, you are all probably right. I just think it's weird that we haven't seen Mihawk use it against enemies that he knows are devil fruit users since he likes to use the sword as a long range weapon.

[k-dom]

Like Zehahaha already said, we haven't seen Mihawk in a serious fight so far.

[StrawHat 13]

Ok, I have to admit, I usually get pretty bored/annoyed with you guys talking about Haki ALL THE TIME, but since it's actually relevant to the current chapter i super happy to read all your post. very well argued and reasoned for the most part. and of course now i have to add my 2 cents(given that the new chapter will be out soon i'm not so sure how many of you will read this).

The whole Zoro cutting Monet's cheek and following cut that cleaved her in two;
First the cut on the cheek, this was either a result of the grip Tashigi had on Monet, allowing her to be tangible due to Tashigi's Haki(though it may not be as strong as some of the other characters in O.P., i still believe it would be a sufficient amount to allow Monet to be Touched)~or~(as i believe) Zoro's cut(sword) contained his own Haki and allowed him to cut Monet. The reason i believe this is more likely the case is because of the following panels. After being cut on the cheek by Zoro's Sword/haki she transforms back into her beautiful form(almost trying to play to Zoro's soft side, similar to an animal that's been hit and realizes its out matched). She realized from that small attack just how much power Zoro put into it. In my mind this is like pushing 1,000 gallons of water through a dime size whole in 1 second. Thus, when Zoro's next attack "one sword style" she anticipated this power to accompany it, but more so. She, like Tashigi said, Though she should have Died, thus making her logia or not, completely MENTALLY DEFEATED. If Haki is a physical expression of a person's Will power, what Zoro did to her was take that Will power completely away, Monet having/being proficient/understanding haki doesn't matter, He literally broke her.

Also, i don't think Zoro HAS king's Haki. This whole "wild animal" chapter has me thinking that Zoro possesses such an intent to Kill that it is THIS feeling that effects people who face Zoro-like a wild animal out for blood-clearly. Plus, Tashigi's reaction to Zoro's look/glare immediately after he cut Monet. she has the same look Monet did right before her getting sliced. take a look. this also is more of an interaction between Tashigi/Zoro, he looks at her with that same intent to kill, yet also shows his soft side by talking down to her and giving her credit for the kill on Monet.

Questions that are still floating around in my head-
How far have the fights progressed between law/vergo/Smoker?
Has Luffy Found CC yet?
HOW will they handle the kids?
When are baby 5 and buffalo getting to PH?
where is Franky and what has he been up to for 4/or so chapters?
How is the Axetol df gonna come into play?
is it possible KID/Apoo/Hawkins are on their way to PH since they clearly know who's on the island currently?(great chance for a "surprise attack" along with adding to the chaos once baby 5 and buffalo get there)
How long until CHopper's hour is up? i wanna see him in action some more!
~and sorry for my over use of the words "zoro,monet,tashigi,haki"

[Rody naruto]

Well Rayleigh said it himself that the possibility are "limitless" when it comes to haki.So i don't see why an air cut imbued with CoA is hard buy.
But anyway this all haki thing takes me back to when the Super Saiyan transformation was just new in Dragonball Z the possibilities were just limitless.Back then i was still a little kid and filled with amazement toward this super Goku guy going all out against Frieza .
So Oda please stop teasing us,i want to see that haki fight between Smoker and Vergo

[hoeru]

hoeru, I truly don’t understand what you are saying here, neither what is the problem with imbuing haki on air. But instead of trying to understand a problem about it, I would like to offer further evidence, already pointed, in favor of the fact that Zoro used haki to cut Monet’s cheek. That would be the blood: when Zoro cuts Monet not using haki and slices her in two, is pretty much like a cut in a snow ball that breaks it in two. There is no blood there, because Monet’s body has the properties of snow in that moment and not the properties of a human body (otherwise it would be incomprehensible not to see blood there). A cut in ice would be also a different thing, much more similar to the cuts used by Zoro to break the wall Monet built to seal Biscuit Room, or with an effect similar to that produced by Robin’s hand when she broke Monet’s jaw in the moment she was about to bite Nami. But that cut on Monet’s cheek is different, because of the blood; and as a matter of fact, CoA haki is used to grab human form of logia users. So the blood must come of the effect of a hit imbued with Haki. There is no other way to explain why Monet bleeds in that panel.

Sorry, to keep this up, but "must" is just going out on a limb... There hasn't been any evidence that Haki can be imbued on air, as air is not as solid as the Kuja's arrows - which were the only projectiles so far being imbued with haki. And as long as there's still the possibility that Zoro just used Kenbunshoku to get the right moment to hurt Monet because of Tashigi grabbing Monet with Busoshoku, there's no deductive conclusion that the air slash has been imbued with Zoro's Busoshoku just because of the bleeding wound.

Your interpretation seems possible. Maybe it is. But definitive certain. No, not until Zoro repeats this on other DF users, nor until Oda rolls this up in an SBS. You just can't bring up the "Oda hasn't explained haki anyways, so my/our theory is right." Meanwhile, the Kenbunshoku usage to spot the right moment to attack with an already great or even greater effect is already canon through the Ball Trail against Satori.

[ukimix]

Sorry, to keep this up, but "must" is just going out on a limb... There hasn't been any evidence that Haki can be imbued on air, as air is not as solid as the Kuja's arrows - which were the only projectiles so far being imbued with haki. And as long as there's still the possibility that Zoro just used Kenbunshoku to get the right moment to hurt Monet because of Tashigi grabbing Monet with Busoshoku, there's no deductive conclusion that the air slash has been imbued with Zoro's Busoshoku just because of the bleeding wound.

Your interpretation seems possible. Maybe it is. But definitive certain. No, not until Zoro repeats this on other DF users, nor until Oda rolls this up in an SBS. You just can't bring up the "Oda hasn't explained haki anyways, so my/our theory is right." Meanwhile, the Kenbunshoku usage to spot the right moment to attack with an already great or even greater effect is already canon through the Ball Trail against Satori.

Ok, fair enough. I'm satisfaied if you see that it is a possibility and not something that contradicts canon. Anyhow, Jimbei could maybe imbue with haki his drop of water when he uses his Ushimizu. And Zoro has a similar attack but with air, which is the Sanjuroku Pound Ho, used agains Brahma in this battle. So maybe air or water, used as projectiles, can be imbued with CoA. It is not like imbuing the air a big spherical zone around the user but just a little drop. Just a possiblity.