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Thread: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Hey all,


    Lots of Troll confusion over this weeks chapter.
    As the title suggests, I created this thread to discuss why Ichigo is NOT a quincy.

    I think that there is quite signifigant evidence showing that he is not a quincy despite JB saying- Blut Vene at the end of the latest chapter.

    Many people are discussing if he had access to this ability before, why didnt it manifest during any other fight.

    I have some logical thoughts on this and welcome any discussion along the title of this thread.

    Please no Bashing... Nothing is fact without a link to support your point of view, so please be kind to conflicting opinions.

    ------ it begins.---

    In the begining, Ichigo was fighting a Menos, and ishda was there. Ishda discovered that when he came in contact with ichigos zanpaktou that it amplified his power by allowing him to draw reiatsu through ichigo and make his arrows Huge.. While not practical from a battle standpoint, it proves that shinigami and quincy can both utilize the base component of their power - reiatsu aka. reishi.


    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-502-18/...hapter-48.html

    Ichigo then began to develop his shinigami powers through the rest of the arc, and his hollow powers manifested as well.

    The hollow and shinigami powers both use reiatsu, quincy use reishi *(im not clear if the two names simply imply the source of the spirit particles,,, reiatsu being from within, and reishi being ambient particles external to the shinigami or hollow or quincy.. .like environmental reiatsu. anyway the name is irrelevant, we are discussing the same stuff.)

    as ichigo began to get into fights, he used his reiatsu to defend himself against attacks, also he used it to increase his strength and relative speed, and to heal himself somewhat during a fight. one of the first examples of this technique is here -- when fighting renji -


    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-509-13/...hapter-55.html

    Now after the training in Dangai, he emerged in a very solid state emitting no reiatsu,
    but with all that energy directed into defense, speed, strength,, every physical aspect and reaction.

    Note this is Post Dangai, but is not FGT mode... not yet.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-56926-1...apter-417.html


    This means that when properly motivated and in the correct state of mind, Ichigo can stop his reiatsu from leaving his body and can direct it in the same way Blut vene does internally to increase his physical attributes in every way.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-56926-1...apter-417.html


    Here is an example of enhanced strength.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-56926-1...apter-417.html


    Now,

    in the current arc,
    Urahara relays his field analysis of the Quincy powers to the research department via his tech.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/499/7

    analysis-
    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/499/8

    bascially, the quincy send Reiatsu or reishi, into thier blood vessles to increase attack or defense.

    this process the quincy call Blut vene, but I dont see why one has to be quincy to do it.
    Anyone who can direct thier reishi or reiatsu can attempt it.

    Nothing was ever said that only quincy can do it.
    So,, Ichigo doing the same thing by instinct that he encountered and had done previously is no surprise.

    I think this is what he did when he was post Dangai, I think this is what he has done.
    The only difference, is now in this scene,

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/513/18

    we are given a visual of what the JB is sensing.. and he senses that Ichgio is putting reiatsu into his veins to increase defense power... thus saying no way Blut vein?!


    SO-
    in conclusion, I do not believe that Ichigo is Quincy, and as he has only pumped his own veins with reaiatsu to increase his defense, clearly less than post dangai training, I see no reason to be uber surpirsed by kubo at this turn of events..


    --Furthermore---
    I feel ichigo can use both attack and defense blut vene, because he uses his shinigami side for one, and the hollow aspect to feed the other.. so while most quincy can only do one or the other at any given time, ichigo by his nature of shinigami power+ hollow can use both at the same time.
    Last edited by DarkBankai; October 24, 2012 at 12:36 PM.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    1. I think changing reiatsu into strength is not Blut, but it's Ichigo's bankai ability.
    2. Why would Kubo show us that, and why would he keep Ichigo's mother a mystery for so long if he WASN't quincy?
    3. Aizen said Ichigo is, from birth, offspring of Shinigami and... and what? He gained hollow powers after Urahara's training. What's left?

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Reishi means spirit energy, it refers to energy in its standard form. Reiatsu means spirit pressure, it refers to the volume of power released. In this regard reiatsu would be an application of reishi, not something different.

    Quincy absorb power they get from outside and turn it into reiatsu (except when they are using volstandig where they don't let go of any reiatsu).

    Ichigo did in fact emit reiatsu after his dangai training. He never lost it, aizen simply was unable to perceive it. It was ichigo's reiatsu which blew away the mountain when his sword clashed with aizens. More so, we actually saw ichigo's reiatsu when he used FGT. Even after seeing ichigo's reiatsu aizen was not able to actually feel it.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    There's this difference between "being able to fight in the same manner as quincies do" e.g. absorbing reishi, and being a quincy. We can't really say Ichi is a shinigami. He's a human that uses shinigami (and hollow and fullbring and now some quincy) power.

    What I'm curious about more is just how he got it and if there's a backstory.
    Last edited by 0Xellos; October 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM. Reason: repeating others
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    I am still more or less of the idea that quincy abilities are not innate, they are learned and acquired. In that regard there is no reason for anyone who is at least partly human to be unable to learn them. I think the answer here will turn out to be instinct mostly. Ichigo exists to be powerful, that is his nature. His aptitude towards combat has been a constant aspect of his life, he even was a black belt before the manga started. So when faced with a technique he can potentially acquire and use it shouldn't be a problem for him to acquire it like this. More so, don't hollows absorb reishi from the air? His hollow abilities should even be a boost to him acquiring quincy techniques just because of that. I wonder if it was because of fullbring that ichigo got here. Fullbring being a hollow power implies that ichigo's hollow powers strengthened when he acquired that. Perhaps the reishi he would absorb as a part hollow was enough to trigger this abilities after seeing them?

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    kkck: I think Blut is something given. Kirge said about adjusting it's level. I don't believe, that their power comes from Juha, because he'll be like God that gives hax power to people. But Blut is something given, injected, not something to be born with.
    But maybe if Masaki had Blut, why her child wouldn't have?

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    i think ichigo is the mixture of every concept in the manga ,shinigami ,quincy ,hollow ,fullbringer,human and maybe even the hougyoku

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Quote Originally Posted by shinsengumi View Post
    i think ichigo is the mixture of every concept in the manga ,shinigami ,quincy ,hollow ,fullbringer,human and maybe even the hougyoku
    Hah, Isshin got banned from SS for implanting Hogyoku to Ichigo the moment he was born! That explains powers of people around him (Orihime, Chad), fast powerups, and Quincy abilites. It's Tite Kubo, everything's possible. ;x

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    The process of blut vene is simply putting energy into your veins to increase attack or defense. regardless of the name, I think the technique could be done by anyone with reiatsu control.

    As for ichigo not emitting reiatsu post dangai, I did not say he had no reiatsu, just that he had not let any leak out, I suggested it was all being used internally for his physical powerup. and In the last chapter lots of people including JB sensed his reiatsu.

    ---
    I dont subscribe to the belief that ichigos mother was a quincy, Im not against the possibility, I just see no reason to jump on that bandwagon at this time with pure speculation or because we want it to be true.
    I for one like the idea of him not being a quincy but being able to infuse his reiatsu into his veins for powerup of defense or attack.
    Its not like ichigo is launching quincy arrows - so no, I do not think he is quincy or related to one. Despite the Mystery surrounding his mother.

    ---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    There's this difference between "being able to fight in the same manner as quincies do" e.g. absorbing reishi, and being a quincy. We can't really say Ichi is a shinigami. He's a human that uses shinigami (and hollow and fullbring and now some quincy) power.

    What I'm curious about more is just how he got it and if there's a backstory.
    I agree there is a difference between being able to fight using a quincy technique and being a quincy.

    As for the backstory, Im hoping we get a flash into the Jail that he broke out of, could explain alot, but knowing kubo we may never see what happened in there. Perhaps a future flashback a couple chapters down the road we might but im not holding my breath.

    ---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Reishi means spirit energy, it refers to energy in its standard form. Reiatsu means spirit pressure, it refers to the volume of power released. In this regard reiatsu would be an application of reishi, not something different.

    Quincy absorb power they get from outside and turn it into reiatsu (except when they are using volstandig where they don't let go of any reiatsu).

    Ichigo did in fact emit reiatsu after his dangai training. He never lost it, aizen simply was unable to perceive it. It was ichigo's reiatsu which blew away the mountain when his sword clashed with aizens. More so, we actually saw ichigo's reiatsu when he used FGT. Even after seeing ichigo's reiatsu aizen was not able to actually feel it.
    Thanks for the reishi reiatsu explanation.
    I know he had reiatsu, and perhaps it was emitted, but I think it was directed inward in such a way that was not detectable by aizen. Perhaps by sending it inward in a (uber) blut venne spin off, it became imperceptable to others unless they could themselves direct it inward in the same way. which aizen could not. he admitted he had no idea what ichigo had done but clearly remarked on the results of the technique. not FGt, but the post Dangai mode.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    kkck: I think Blut is something given. Kirge said about adjusting it's level. I don't believe, that their power comes from Juha, because he'll be like God that gives hax power to people. But Blut is something given, injected, not something to be born with.
    But maybe if Masaki had Blut, why her child wouldn't have?
    The explanation given about blutz is that they make reishi flow in a system of their bodies (maybe even their actual blood vessels). Taking that in consideration I don't see how this is given. Reishi control is something innate to beings with reiatsu. The systems in which reishi flows to get the effects it has also appear to be innate to the user as far as we know. Blutz even seems like it should be a generic ability of sorts to anyone who bothers to learn how to make reishi flow through their reishi systems or something. At least its basic functioning does not scream of a particular race.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    But there must be some trick behind it, if nobody was shown using it before (unless I slam my head against the 4th wall and say it was just because Kubo hadn't created it before).
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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    But there must be some trick behind it, if nobody was shown using it before (unless I slam my head against the 4th wall and say it was just because Kubo hadn't created it before).
    Indeed- there must be a trick.

    Perhaps it the secret lies in the direction of reishi control.
    Aizen and others seem to want to gain power and increase the flow of reishi in one direction only.
    Like when kenpachi first appeared or any of the captians with strong pressure is near, the pressure of their reiatsu flows outward and can make it difficult to breathe in those around.. we have seen that many times.
    From inside the person to external world around them is one direction.

    Quincy seem to go the opposite direction,, from outside, concentrating it within it, before it gets launched as an arrow or whatever when they release it.


    Perhaps the trick of it is being able to change the direction of the reishi. Ichigo may be able to harness not only both flavors of reiatsu, hollow + shinigami, but also he might be able to control the direction in which that power flows... (speculative_ but im just saying it might explain why most shinigami cannot do blut vene, while quincy can.)

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    But there must be some trick behind it, if nobody was shown using it before (unless I slam my head against the 4th wall and say it was just because Kubo hadn't created it before).
    Well, it is entirely possible that anyone but ichigo (who has enough talent to put to shame every other talented manga character ever) would take quite some time to actually be able to use the technique. I mean, ichigo has condensed hundreds of years worth of training into just about 2 months (10 days training with urahara, 3 days to master bankai, 1 month worth of hollowification training and 2 weeks or so of fullbring). even if just using blutz would normally take years it makes sense ichigo would be able to use it mere hours after seeing it.

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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    What I mean by trick is that just by sucking up reishi, you don't do this blut thing. And Ichi has never been the best at refined control. Take the case with Kuukaku cannonball training. He was unable to make the sphere until Ganju told him the shortcut for those who are more instinct than thinking types.

    Now I read Mangastream's translation, which says on the last page that Ichi "awakens". This'd support the theory that he used BV unconsciously. But it could be just a figure of speech, that this is the first time he uses it in battle.
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    Re: Reasons why Ichigo is NOT a quincy -

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    What I mean by trick is that just by sucking up reishi, you don't do this blut thing. And Ichi has never been the best at refined control. Take the case with Kuukaku cannonball training. He was unable to make the sphere until Ganju told him the shortcut for those who are more instinct than thinking types.

    Now I read Mangastream's translation, which says on the last page that Ichi "awakens". This'd support the theory that he used BV unconsciously. But it could be just a figure of speech, that this is the first time he uses it in battle.
    Id like to check out the mangastream but for some reason when I go to that site the pictures are all black. Ive tried IE and firefox. not sure why.
    I have been using mangapanda.com.

    I tried to contact them but the gmail wont open, that site kinda suks- was once one of my favorites but once it stopped working I quickly lost patience.

    ---On topic..---

    as for the trick- im not saying sucking up reishi, According to urahara they are flooding their very veins with reaitsu or reishi whatever, and by activating that, I guess they can bolster defense down to the very surface of their skin through the blood and the veins. so they are sending the absorbed reiatsu into the veins intentionally. The reason I mentioned direction was that it seemed a fundamental difference in the way the two (quincy, and shinigami) manipulate the reiatsu in them or around them.

    I was speculating that if ichigo could change the directional flow of his reiatsu and direct in inwards into his veins then he could achieve blut vein. just like sonido vs flash step or the quincy version, all similar but different names.

    I guess next weeks chapter will be quite revealing. lol

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