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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
We don't know just how long ryuto has been training under kensei. It didn't seem like he did it for too long though. We know for a fact ryuto engaged in martial arts much sooner than kenichi however he only did so in regular gyms. By the time he met kensei (the flashback where kensei killed people at the beach if I recall) ryuto was already older and he seemed to be just about the same age as he was by his first appearance. There is also the consideration that no yami master seems to give his disciple the amount of time kenichi is given by his masters. Kenichi for fact trains every day under everyone with akisame's and ma's obscure plot drive absurd methods. In turn the yomi seem to be in a more unstable position. Remember when kensei and rimi randomly left for the mountains to train? Where were his other disciples when the two of them were in the mountains? Simply not training with kensei. Sougetsu left tanimoto on his own for months or years at a time too. Juzanad was unstable and disciple killing prone. Akira was nowhere near sho during the tournament sage although it is plausible he was being trained by diego at the time. Boris was shown to do a lot of missions on his own, he didn't seem to spend that much time with his master either. We know ethan and serul are in india right now however we have never even seen the two of them together and the guy did not seem to be behind ethan's training during the ethan in school events. Perhaps this is the difference between kenichi and takeda and yomi, the yami guys simply do not spend as much time with their disciples.
I agree with you. Yami members don't spend as much time with their disciples as Kenichi's Masters do. Though still, his training seems more about developing his physical capabilities, while Yami Masters seem to only teach their disciples some moves and then give them the opportunity to get better through the fights. Thus most of Disciples from Yomi are given some teachings and moves and then train mostly by themselvesw under a supervision of their Masters.
Well, Lugh didn't accomplish "anything" not because he was weak, but because Kenichi interrupted him, otherwise Takeda would have lost his main hand... Also how come taking down two opponents at the same time isn't a fit? And how he managed to tank Takeda's punch from point blank without feeling anything? Even Kenichi (who is always praised due to his resilence and endurance) recieved quite a damage after getting a punch from Takeda in their last fight...
@Jorge Thor, Sieg and Takeda are all significantly weaker fighters than Kenichi. Using them as a measuring stick to compare Lugh to Kenichi is completely unreasonable. I would agree with you if he was fighting someone of a higher level but that wasn't the case. There is simply not enough evidence after a short fight with Takeda to suggest Lugh is stronger or strong as Kenichi. If was he as strong as Kenichi then that would also mean he is stronger than all of Kenichi past adversaries Kano, Ethan, Ryuto, Boris, etc..which I'm definitely not ready to believe. Furthermore, if he was strong as Kenichi then why is he still in TRAINING to become Kensei's main yomi representative? If he's such "a strong expert" then why doesn't he hold a position among them? It's obvious he's not at main yomi level yet because of three things: he's not strong enough yet (reason why he is still in TRAINING!), he hasn't been chosen to succeed Kensei, and he doesn't even have a medallion. You're wrong here Jorge you are dead wrong about Lugh, but hey that's your opinion I fear.
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; October 28, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
As far as the fight went while Lugh had an upper hand due to his style being strong against boxing the fight was pretty evened out, neither got hurt and both dodge most of each others attacks how did u see Lugh being so superior to Takeda i dont know. Sorry but your looking up to a char that hasent really proven himself worth to be praised like that.
Last edited by Unholy; October 28, 2012 at 06:19 PM.
Well, the reason why he didn't become Kensei's main Yomi might only prove the fact that Ryuto might be still the strongest among the four of Kensei's disciples, but actually sometimes I don't fully understand Kensei and how he look on Yomi and his disciples. Thus it's very difficult to count Lugh's power by saying that he isn't a main Yomi that will succeed Kensei.
The fact that Lugh might have surpassed Kano Shou... it might be true. If anything I believe that Tirawit Koukin had surpassed Shou when he was fighting Kenichi. It's the basics of this manga - everyone gets stronger all the time. The same applies to other Yomi members and also Kenichi, Miu and Shinpaku Alliance.
About Lugh's opponents... Well each one of them is weaker than Kenichi and it seems that they are weaker by fer, but no matter how we look at it, when Kenichi fought Takeda last tame the same punch Takeda used this time on Lugh did harm Kenichi and actually sent him to knock down for a several seconds, while Lugh didn't feel anything and we assume that Takeda got considerably stronger than he was when he fought Kenichi last time, so I doubt that not feeling anything from Takeda's punch isn't a proof of at least a damn strong body and damn strong resilense. That was the only point I was trying to bring.
Of course we don't have really enough evidence to suggest how strong Lugh is currently, but I deffinetly don't think that he is weak or not a match for Kenichi. Still let's just wait and see how strong he is in the upcoming chapters as it seems that there might be some sort of development and maybe it will tell us a bit more about Lugh.
Ok, it might be a matter of perception. Still I don't think that not getting any damage from Takeda's punch, when the same Kenichi was knocked down for a several seconds from something similar, when he last fought Takeda isn't at least a considerable proof of Lugh's strength... And it's not a biassed assumption. It's a presentation facts from the manga in the fight of one character (Takeda) against two characters Lugh and Kenichi.
Looking at the pictures you can see that Kenichi took much more damage from more or less the same punch and you should also count that not only Takeda powered-up after he fought Kenichi, but also in this fight he fights without gloves and that makes your thrusts and jabs considerably more effective... Also it did break. One finger broke, there was even a sound of it written there. Lugh was also surprised that Takeda's arm wasn't broken and praised him for a crazy training he undergone as that strike made a great inpact on Takeda's elbow joint. Takeda only said that it just dislocated to look cool...
His finger didnt broke it is stated by both him and Lugh that it was just dislocated, Lugh didnt few anything out of that punch cant argue with that but Takeda was still wearing his training gear at the time which really limits his power and he had to hit from an awkward position with would prolly make it a less effective punch. Im not saying Lugh aint powerfull but that move alone aint enough to put him above everybody else Kenichi fought. Besides that one particular scene nothing else happened during that match as i said on my previous post, Takeda dodged all his grabs and Lugh dodged all his punchs, Lugh had a clear advantage based on his style as he mentioned it himself during the fight but he did not in any point severely outmatch Takeda as he did with Thor for example.
Are you ignoring the manga pages I presented to you? There was an obvious showing of his finger breaking there. There was even a sound written there (crack) for a better understanding of the situation. It was just Takeda's acting to look cooler, when he saidf that it wasn't broken but just dislocated.
Ok, I won't argue more. As I said before it seems that it's just a matter of perseption. We just see the same things in a different way. When I presented you the same situation with Takeda and Kenichi and he was in a quite knock down, but here it's not that strong punch...
Also if you try to think about the principle of such punch it seems to augment the power of a user with his weight, thus actually having additional weight gave Takeda some sort of advantage in this punch.
Unholy BASED Shinigami Let's stop argueing about this fight for a moment and just wait for the upcoming chapters to show us if Lugh is really weak or strong.
Alright no problem we'll call it truce for now next chapter will probably come out Friday, so we can continue arguing then
Anyway, predictions for the next chapter? or does anyone think Ukita will die in this arc?
---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------
Or who will end up fighting Kenichi?
Well, I hope Ukita gets a bit more serious and quits getting in trouble all the time. Kisara already loves him, so he doesn't need to throw himself into death situations. At least I hope she will put some intelligence in his head.
Also I hope that he either get a Judo Master or maybe Akisame trains him a bit in Jiu-Jitsu as in some way they share some techniques, so it might be a bit better for him to at least train under Akisame than not having any Master at all.
About the next chapter... Well, I don't know. We literaly can have different developments. We might get to see Ryozanpaku getting back home and discussing the fight against Lugh with Kenichi and Miu and maybe modifying his training a bit, just in order to be sure that he knows how to cunter Lugh's style as sometimes Kenichi lacks not even in power (as his Korui Nuki was referred to be able to take down any fighter from Disciple class), but in terms of adjusting his fighting style to his opponents. And now, when his opponent doesn't use his eyes, it won't be easy to adjust himself to his opponent via Ryusui Seikuken. I believe the same might apply to Ryuto to some extent as it seems that Ryuto also has this inner eye to some extent. Not as good as Lugh, but still, so he doesn't need to actually see his opponent. Ryuto mostly predicts his opponents whereabouts via his inner eye and Seikuken and it seems that he developed his Seikuken to a greater degree than before. As it seemed during the fight against Kano's minions and a skirmish with Miu on despair island.
Another direction the manga can take for a couple of chapters or at least one chapter might be Kensei's talk with his Disciples.
Well, IMHO Kenichi will end up fighting Lugh and Berserker consecutevly.
Well just to reply about the broken finger thing: http://mangafox.me/manga/history_s_s...9/c494/17.html
As far as i can understand "I was unable to snap it in two. You should thank your master....." and the follow up by Takeda "Im ok. It came out but i put it back in already!" Suggests Lugh didnt managed to break it just dislocate his finger. Also in terms of that punch i agreed it was impressive he didnt take any damage but from that position it is hard to muster any power, boxers rely on placing their whole body weight on their legs to strengthen their punch and twist their body when they are lending a hit from that position he couldn't really do that. I know this manga aint the most realistic thing out there but while on the manga that punched looked really impressive in real life it wouldnt pack as much power as a straight with his full force. But as i said i agree he got out with no damage from a hit that hurt Kenichi even if both punchs were not the same but that scene alone aint enough to give him that much credit, all im saying is his power is still pretty much unknown u cant not use a single move to gauge his power and call him weak or strong based solely on that, at the end we gotta wait thats pretty much it.
Im kind puzzled by Ukita to be honest he was never a very important char and was never given much of a spot light but now the author just decided to give him a ton of screen time hard to say if he has real plans for Ukita in terms of martial artists or if he gonna give it up and start having a regular life. After all we are pretty late in the manga for Ukita to get a master and catch up to the rest of the alliance but u cant never be sure.
I have no clue what gonna happen next chapter, cant even say who Kenichi might be fighting in the future, being ages since anyone from the alliance had a real fight and this little match between Lugh and Takeda might be indication that the alliance will get to fight Kenseis disciples, im guessing that Kenichi will fight the weapons division disciple mainly because we have never seen him fighting a weapons user disciple so far since the manga started. Berseker didnt seem interested in Kenichi and Lugh might have a rematch with Takeda and Rimi is definately aiming for Miu but hard to be sure about anything at this point Kenichi might be facing of either of them if not all of them.
Well, that's a good idea that Kenichi might actually fight someone from a weapon division. It would be interesting to see disciples from that part of Yami. Also we should take in consideration that Freya is a weapon user as well, so she also needs some opponents, thus it might be interesting to see her against someone who is closer in strength to the current Yomi.
Well, Rimi obviously wants to fight Miu, but I don't know if it would be really interesting for me to see such a fight. Rimi seems to be seriously obssesed with Ryuto. Thus I believe she needs not to fight Miu, but to try to bind Ryuto.
The thing I really want to see is what actual style is Berserker developing now. It might be something interesting. And about his interest in fighting Kenichi... I agree with you. He doesn't have an interest, but Kensei might want to try him against Kenichi.
About Ukita... It really feels strange. It really can turn either way as you say. Still, if he finds a Master he might not be too late as for example I didn't think that Takeda would get this great after such short period of time, but he managed to surprise me, even though I don't like him as a character.
Well, Kenichi did fight that one disciple from the weapons division even though the fight lasted like 2 seconds I agree with you guys though hopefully the weapons division will finally get some proper exposure in this arc and we'll finally get to see some masters that are strong enough to rival the OSNF and their disciples are worthy enough to command respect. The weapons division really seem the sidekick to the unarmed divisions
---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------
@Jorge Might I ask why you add so many smiley faces whenever you post! Are you happy all the time?
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; October 29, 2012 at 09:12 PM.
Well, I understand your point. Unfortunately we don't see that many armed opponents of a good quality in Kenichi. I do hope it will change, but maybe an author don't want to fullfill my expectations.
At least if they aren't strong individually they might try to take Kenichi by numbers. For example two against one or three against one. That would be an interesting match for Kenichi.
Well, it depends. Mostly it depends on my mood. I never thought too much. Also depends on the tone of discussion. If we are discussing more serious things, then I don't use that many smiles.
I'd be stoked as to see Ukita get a master!