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Thread: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

  1. #31
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    This I agree with.
    But have we ever seen a player use his common sense in the series and go "I don't want to return that Jack Knife or Hadoukyuu, so I'll just wait and work my around the match so I will just dodge the shots that could leave me in critical condition, and then hit winners when I can"?

    My original argument was that I see Fuji returning regular Hadoukyuus, but I don't see it as out there that we have guys like him working their way around the 108th Hadoukyuu serve.
    It's unlikely but theoritically, now that Kawamura and Gin can hit them on serves, their should be few in the camp that can touch them.
    Except they are far from the best in the camp. (Well Kawamura is No.12, but I suppose we know there are 20guys who could finish the guy off).
    It is precisely because almost nobody in POT has common sense that's why power players are way stronger than a comparably strong tech players. From what we know just about everyone approaches a power shot Sanada-style, where if you fail to return it head on you just disgraced your ancestors and probably should fled the country in shame.

    So in light of that, none of the MSer have a chance because they'll just try to hit Duke Homerun and go flying, possibly die. I guess Kintaro might have a shot at returning it, given he has >Hado 108 power even before any training, but someone like Yukimura is definitely toast. Of course, Yukimura actually does seem to possess common sense, which might be why he's the Child of God, and just don't bother with that shot. That'd be a valid way to defeat Duke.

    In the original POT the power players pretty much have only power/endurance and nothing else. It wouldn't surprise me if Kawamura's stat is 5/5/1/1/1. You can argue if your tech is that bad maybe there's some clever trick to get around your power, but once you get to Duke's level you can't assume there'd have a power/endurance/1/1/1 stat because all the top MSer are meant to be uber strong. So you can't assume there's some clever trick that'd allow you to completely avoid their power because if there's technique to completely avoid power, who is to say there isn't some power that can avoid all technique?

    Now there's a difference between say unable to return a shot or physically getting knocked out. Duke has been stated as the #1 power player of Japan. But even if this means he can bust Byodouin's racket there's no way this means he is better than Byodouin because DH is almost certainly not a shot sustainable for 24 hits in a row. Most likely you'll just see Byodouin hit a DH back and say 'my arm is sore' but still return it fine. But when you're talking about characters like Yukimura, we're literally talking about guys we're not sure if they'll live through a single DH. It's okay to drop your racket against DH because you can overcome that if you simply have a good serve. For example, say you have ZSS-level serve (assuming Duke can't return it) and you drop your racket against every DH, it'd just be an endurance match to see who gets tired out first.

    It's not okay if we can't be sure if you'll even be alive after a DH, and due to the extreme lack of common sense in POT, we can't assume people will just get out of the way of a DH. I mean you got Byodouin blowing out a wall with a tennis ball but I bet you if he play any random fodder MSer, they'll still inexplicably try to return his serve instead of running for their lives.
    Last edited by Phantron; October 31, 2012 at 08:38 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Do you think Sanada will return DH Phantron?

  3. #33
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Duke Homerun vs Rai = Duke Homerun has too much power and Sanada's racquet frame hits his face XD
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke View Post
    Duke Homerun vs Rai = Duke Homerun has too much power and Sanada's racquet frame hits his face XD
    With BA, DH will be returned to Duke and blast him into the wall.

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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Do you think Sanada will return DH Phantron?
    I don't know about returning it, but I think he can hit DH without sustaining serious injury. He might drop his racket, but that's not a big deal.

    Honestly a player like Yukimura could have an upper hand on Duke in terms of skill but you could easily have a repeat of Kirihara versus Fuji, namely:

    Yukimura: "I have a flashback of my past injury for no reason whatsoever."
    Some guy: "Watch out!"
    Duke: "Duke Homerun!"
    Yukimura dies
    Game over

    I can literally see Duke kill most MSer in a Duke Homerun and that's far too much of an advantage.

  7. #36
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    Post Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Since you are the guy who believes Sanada can teleport far up into the audience stands and teleport back onto the court in the midst of a rally, I know how you think about Sanada.
    Yukimura has solid strength as shown clearly in the Nationals. His build doesn't match his strength.
    Krauser and Kintaro are also perfect examples of this. Krauser does not look like the sort of player that can blow somebody with the build of Nakagauchi out of a court and effectively out of the arena they were in.

    DH sent Ishida Gin flying into the air, and it seems before he was in flight, he had already lost consciousness and needed medical attention BEFORE he even landed.
    Ishida Gin is somebody who sent Kawamura into the audience stands.

    I don't see how you can say "Sanada might drop his racket". Unless we are accounting for the fact that Sanada will use technique to return it, which Yukimura and Tezuka would be able to also do if Sanada can, then Sanada should definetley be hurt by DH.

    No way can you tell me Sanada will just drop his racket hahahahaha.

    ---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    With BA, DH will be returned to Duke and blast him into the wall.
    LOL?
    How do we know this?

  8. #37
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Since you are the guy who believes Sanada can teleport far up into the audience stands and teleport back onto the court in the midst of a rally, I know how you think about Sanada.
    Yukimura has solid strength as shown clearly in the Nationals. His build doesn't match his strength.
    Krauser and Kintaro are also perfect examples of this. Krauser does not look like the sort of player that can blow somebody with the build of Nakagauchi out of a court and effectively out of the arena they were in.

    DH sent Ishida Gin flying into the air, and it seems before he was in flight, he had already lost consciousness and needed medical attention BEFORE he even landed.
    Ishida Gin is somebody who sent Kawamura into the audience stands.

    I don't see how you can say "Sanada might drop his racket". Unless we are accounting for the fact that Sanada will use technique to return it, which Yukimura and Tezuka would be able to also do if Sanada can, then Sanada should definetley be hurt by DH.

    No way can you tell me Sanada will just drop his racket hahahahaha.
    Your argument seems to be that because people who don't look like they're strong (Kintaro/Krauser) turned out to be very strong therefore someone (Yukimura) who doesn't look like he's very strong must be very strong.

    Tezuka and Atobe both have a strength of 3.5. Neither of them have ever shown any signs of great physical strength. Krauser has a strength of 5. He's shown to be able to hit a ball and pin someone to a wall with it.

    Yukimura, unlike the characters you cited, has never shown a sign of great physical power. Returning Ryoma's Big Bang is meaningless. The 3.5 strength Atobe returned it easily too against Ryoma. Yukimura is far more likely to be around 3.5 in strength too than 5, and a 3.5 strength guy has no chance of returning DH as a function of strength. You can talk about techs but you got Irie with a speed/tech of 6 that presumably is weaker than Duke (he is below Oni in the reserve team, and Oni is below Duke in the G10). If Duke's power can be overcome so easily Irie would've already beaten him and taken the #3 spot.

    Sanada, on the other hand, picked up a guy falling off a cliff with only one hand, which is a pretty significant display of physical power. This is something you'd never expect Tezuka or Atobe to do, so he should be comfortably above 3.5. How much above is anyone's guess, but given his 'fight everything head-on' reputation it wouldn't make sense if he can't return power 5 level strength head on (that's still MS level). Of course Duke's strength exceeds that but there's no more information to work with at this point.

  9. #38
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yukimura, unlike the characters you cited, has never shown a sign of great physical power. Returning Ryoma's Big Bang is meaningless. The 3.5 strength Atobe returned it easily too against Ryoma. Yukimura is far more likely to be around 3.5 in strength too than 5, and a 3.5 strength guy has no chance of returning DH as a function of strength. You can talk about techs but you got Irie with a speed/tech of 6 that presumably is weaker than Duke (he is below Oni in the reserve team, and Oni is below Duke in the G10). If Duke's power can be overcome so easily Irie would've already beaten him and taken the #3 spot.
    Yukimura also return Kintarou ultra mountain storm. That's a pretty powerful move. It IS more dangerous than 108 Hadoukyuu.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  11. #39
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Yukimura also return Kintarou ultra mountain storm. That's a pretty powerful move. It IS more dangerous than 108 Hadoukyuu.
    Ryoma returned that too, who previously cannot even return the Big Bang. There's no real consistency in how power shots are returned at least in POT. Presumably you can tech your way out of some power shots but if you can tech out of Duke Homerun then Irie, who has a tech and speed of 6, should be G3 right now given you get the rank of whoever you defeated. Now Irie does have a strength of 1, but 3.5 still appears to be in the realm of normal humans (Tezuka/Atobe never did anything that'd require superhuman strength) so I don't see that being enough either to deal with clearly superhuman strength.

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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Ryoma returned that too, who previously cannot even return the Big Bang. There's no real consistency in how power shots are returned at least in POT. Presumably you can tech your way out of some power shots but if you can tech out of Duke Homerun then Irie, who has a tech and speed of 6, should be G3 right now given you get the rank of whoever you defeated. Now Irie does have a strength of 1, but 3.5 still appears to be in the realm of normal humans (Tezuka/Atobe never did anything that'd require superhuman strength) so I don't see that being enough either to deal with clearly superhuman strength.
    Ryoma return it with Samurai Drive. He didn't have Samurai Drive when he's returning Big Bang. I don't see why we should say Yukimura can't return Duke Homerun when he return every single tech in the story, except for Black Aura and PoP. And guess what, those two aren't tech, they're aura.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Ryoma return it with Samurai Drive. He didn't have Samurai Drive when he's returning Big Bang. I don't see why we should say Yukimura can't return Duke Homerun when he return every single tech in the story, except for Black Aura and PoP. And guess what, those two aren't tech, they're aura.
    He didn't return the full power Big Bang though...
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Given the constant reminder of MS and HS are two different levels altogether I don't see why Yukimura's ability to return any MS level tech translates to the ability to return HS level tech. He doesn't sound like he can return Mach Serve and yet he's supposed to have no problem returning a tech from an even higher ranked opponent?

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  17. #43
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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    He didn't return the full power Big Bang though...
    Like I say, he return a move more powerful with Samurai Drive. It just means Echizen techniques isn't that high when he faced Big Bang yet. So are you saying Echizen with Samurai Drive techniques=Echizen without Samurai Drive techniques? So, why does it matter?
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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    Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Like I say, he return a move more powerful with Samurai Drive. It just means Echizen techniques isn't that high when he faced Big Bang yet. So are you saying Echizen with Samurai Drive techniques=Echizen without Samurai Drive techniques? So, why does it matter?
    I was just adding something to your post, I'm not saying I disagree!
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    Post Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post

    Yukimura, unlike the characters you cited, has never shown a sign of great physical power. Returning Ryoma's Big Bang is meaningless.
    Yukimura rallied with his own shot strength being doubled.
    Yukimura effortlessly slapped away Sanada's Ka in their rally.
    Yukimura effortlessly slapped Kintaro who ONLY hits powerful shots.

    Unless you want to tell me that Sanada's Ka is a weak shot.

    I think it's clear his physique and strength don't match.

    So what if Sanada lifted somebody on a cliff? So did Kawamura.
    And did you see Kawamura? He got sent flying into the sky by Date, who ISNT even the No.1 power player.
    You have ZERO evidence to suggest Sanada is stronger than Kawamura,

    So to say Sanada can return DH or will only drop a racket is baseless. He is clearly just you fav. character.
    After seeing Ishida Gin flying you want to see Sanada will be unaffected by DH?

    Hahahahaa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    He didn't return the full power Big Bang though...
    Konomi had Yukimura state that Ryoma had the power down. But it just wasn't good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Given the constant reminder of MS and HS are two different levels altogether I don't see why Yukimura's ability to return any MS level tech translates to the ability to return HS level tech. He doesn't sound like he can return Mach Serve and yet he's supposed to have no problem returning a tech from an even higher ranked opponent?
    So WHY do you assume Sanada won't be affected by DH if Ishida Gin needs medical attention and is in a critical state at this stage in the storyline even though the match happened before the one that's finished.

    There has been no sign of Ishida since he almost died. And you want to tell me Sanada will just drop his racket?

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