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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
I think there are only two possible candidates, either #4 who most likely died overseas, or #5, Kaji, who was clearly being set up for a cruel joke by his peers.
I'd go with Kaji because at least #4 can argue it's an act of god someone from the Anime series showed up and defeated him. Kaji clearly was setup by his peers for the fall. Even the coaches are in on this, as when #4 didn't return one of the coaches was puzzled why there's a fresh face in the G10, but when Oni took Kaji's place, there was clearly no surprise amongst those in the know, proving that Kaji was setup all along.
Last edited by Phantron; April 02, 2013 at 12:37 PM.
I"ll have to go with #4.
Kaji should knows he's not part of the original line up all along. It's in his head and he knows it. So there's nothing wrong with it.
#4, though, was part of the so call popular G10. And now he's lost and forgotten.
The way Phantron put it, I think Kaji completely has my sympathy. I feel for the dude.
Did you see his facial expression when he says to Oni, "You even went beyond Black Jack Knife..."
It pretty much means that Kaji saw Kishin Mode. Remember how weird Oni's eyes looked?
Its likely Kaji is in the medical room since that happened only the night before the current G10matches.
And if Momoshiro needed a couple days to recover from BJK, Kaji will be taking nearly a week to recover from Kishin Mode.
So yeah, people like Byoudouin and the coaches and probably some other few HSers kept it a secret that Oni had Kishin Mode from Kaji.
Depends on what you think is worse, I guess..
1. Being in hospital room for maybe a week and give up the position that you know you're just holding a temporary place in.
2. Lost your rather good position forever and got left behind in a foreign country.
Kaji knows he's not a real no 5.
No 4 is, well, a real no 4, and was dump out of his career.
Last edited by -Ken-; April 04, 2013 at 09:41 AM.
And how do we know that there was actually a #4 and even more, how do we know that they left that guy in another country (possibly dead )?
As far as the story goes, Kaji is the saddest original G10 member (he didn't get to hit a damn ball... he was already dead), we don't even know if he was good enough to be a part of the top 20.
That's the issue with No.4.
No. 4 could have been Irie or Tokugawa who refused the position number.
What sucks right now is that we have a No.5 who managed to gain ridiculous improvement (TnK) during the G10 VS MS Challenge.
So we can't use No.s to measure power at all anymore.
That's the saddest thing about no 4. The audience doesn't even knows how that number works. Konomi doesn't even give enugh explanation.
Kaji got it pretty good for a character who wasn't even the original 1st stringer. He got screen time and some pages devoted to him. No 4 doesn't even have any of those things.
Kaji depends on how you think he got his position. If he actually knew about Oni's power and people just told him hey there's this vacant spot while Oni stays back and coach so they need another guy to fill his spot in their world tour, of course he got a good deal while it lasted. But it can also be that people in the know (Byodouin, coaches, plus whoever else) are just like 'hey Kaji you're totally qualified for #5 because I'm sure you can beat Oni in a match". I mean he obviously thought he can handle BJK and being able to handle BJK seems like perfectly fine as a qualifier for #5. After all Momoshiro destroyed 2 G11-20 members with BJK, and when Oni criticized Duke for being too serious, at that point we assumed Oni at most had say one more tier above BJK, so if one tier above BJK > Duke (#3), it seems reasonable to assume BJK represents the level you'd expect from the #5 player.
I'm sure there was definitely a real #4 and it's not a case where 'no real tennis players were harmed in Ryoga's arrival of team". Some poor dude was definitely kicked off the team and possibly stranded in another country to make room for Ryoga. So #4 obviously had the raw deal too, but Kaji could be the victim of a cruel practical joke depending on how he got his position. Looking at how #3 and #7-#10 turned out to be relatively ordinary (at least compared to Oni), I have no reason to believe Kaji wasn't qualified to be #5 relative to his peers.
---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------
I just noticed we have Tohno, who got backstabbed by his doubles partner and his kneecap broken, isn't even a candidate. The original G10 really have some rough times.
Oni was well known as the top absolute #1 player in Japan until he decided to seal off his Kishin Mode. I highly doubt Kaji wouldn't knows someone that famous.
He barely defeated Byoudouin. Like... He JUST edged him out.
To say he was the absolute No.1 yet get forced into a tie-break where he ends up with a permanent scare is hardly absolute.
Regardless, this was Two Years Prior. If we look back to Two Years Prior, a lot can happen in that time.
Considering Ryoma and Kintaro weren't even in Middle School, its needless to say they lacked any good competition so the Super Rookies would have probably got eaten alive by Atobe in 7 minutes.
Current story section being G10, The Super Rookies will eat Atobe alive.
So firstly, lets use deductive reasoning, in the current year, HSers have been shitting bricks at the sight of MSers.
On top of that, there are barely any 1st Year HSers in the camp, they are by far the least represented in the camp.
So we can assume that Byoudouin, Oni and 2-3 other people in their year were in the camp at that time tops. No more than 2-3.
Irie, Tanegashima, Duke are the most likely and suitable guesses.
More importantly, Byoudouin was the only guy in the same tier as Oni who could push Oni beyond the 10ball nonsense. And Byoudouin went to the Mountains and Oni pummelled a few HSers to get the No.5 badge and immediately began Gate Keeping due to boredom.
So they would have never played each other ever again.
So Kaji would have never been able to see Kishin Mode.
So the rest of the talented members of Oni's year group arrive and notice Oni swimming around some lower court fodder.
They hear from Byoudouin and Irie that Oni is in fact strong.
(Taira and Hara shat bricks when they saw BJK) so we're looking at probably Hakamada No.14 - 1 being the players who can perhaps handle BJK.
So it makes perfect sense that Kaji saw Oni, thought "BJK? Oh well, I'll shit on that move lol". Due to a cruel joke by Byoudouin & Co.
Oni goes "Oh sorry Kaji, but I have Kishin Mode bro, I'm going to neatly kick your ass and take my badge back".
Well we don't know if Oni used Kishin mode, but if he did that'd put Kaji on par with 10-ball Kintaro (assuming Oni didn't use it just for fun) and that's certainly worthy to be #5 based on what we've seen the normal G10 can do.
Oni being #1 is clearly some kind of urban legend. Even Irie has never seen Oni going serious. We can see in the flashback that there weren't anyone we recognize in the current team watching, so very few people that are in the U17 camp now actually saw the match. So they probably heard about how Oni was awesome way back but they'd never have seen Oni displaying any power to back that up. We see people like Nakagauchi thought he can take on Oni. Heck, even the fans figure he's just a stepping stone for MSer. So sure all the guys there may heard Oni is strong but they've no reason to believe he's unbelievably strong and can easily smoke almost any of them at any time. That's why I think Kaji was sad because he genuinely could've believed he could take Oni on while Byodouin and the coaches are probably laughing somewhere while watching the slaughter from a hidden camera.
LOL exactly, its just a cruel joke. I bet the Coaches were on the phone to Byoudouin on the road trip back to the Camp like
"Hey Byoudouin, remember the time we made Kaji No.5 for fun haha? Well yeah, jokes over, come down to the survelliance room and bring the popcorn! Today is the day he dies muahahaha"
Something cruel like that.
I personally I think he did use Kishin Mode. Remember how demonic his eyes looked. Since Ohmagari gave zero shits at the 10ball thing with Tooyamads
First of all, don't say G10 Phantron,
Mouri ABSOLUTELY CANNOT perform the same 10ball return that Tooyama managed to learn.
There isn't a chance in hell he was a 10baller and dropped his service game against Atobe/Niou.
Since Ochi/Mouri are doubles specialists, I believe that's the thing that makes them G10.
Individually I don't see them having 10ball.
I can imagine Kimijima having 10ball after he raped Marui at the net with a jacket round his waist and stayed at 60% the entire match although I don't know how far we can measure Tohno or Kimijima due to the conditions of that corrupt match.
Whilst Mouri, Ochi, Tohno and Kimijima were extremely cool I don't see them as being as strong as the rest of the G6+Tokugawa.
I think Kaji's had the sadded life over the past... day in the series... since believe it or not, Oishi became the nations No.16 yesterday and Kaji suddenly became a 2nd Stringer just yesterday.
If Tokugawa, Oni and Irie took their country seriously, Ochi and Mouri wouldn't have been in the G10 and the below-par Taira and Hara would have been in 1st Court. But I do think Kaji would have been between Tohno and Ohmagari in ability. I mean Oni looked got damn serious as he walked away.
And lmao I forgot Konomi created a rivalry between Oni and Nakagauchi.
If Oni used Kishin mode it implies Kaji has at least 10-ball level since Oni isn't someone who just use Kishin mode for fun, and you'd need at least 10-ball level to make him use Kishin. That'd certainly put Kaji comfortably in the #5 spot when we have no reason to believe G7 through G10 can even do 10-ball. Even if Oni just beat him with a straight up 10-ball tech, there's still no reason to believe he's particularly weak compared to the bottom half of the G10 so he should still deserve a spot in the bottom half of the G10 even if Irie/Tokugawa/Oni are all placed at their appropriate spots.
I saw a guy point out that Nakagauchi is just flat out crazy because he said Oni ran away from a battle from him when he played on the S3 position for court 3. At the time, it was pretty clear Oni, had he played, would be S1 for court 5 (Irie commented that court 5 must be taking it easy if Oni wasn't scheduled to play). Or maybe he thought Oni was only good enough to be S3 for court 5. Either way, he's still totally crazy.
---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------
I'm also surprised Irie hasn't commented on how he thought he was the master of acting but he just realized he's nothing compared to Oni even in the acting department. Or maybe we'll find out in a flashback that Oni taught Irie how to act.
I've gotta say, your take on the Top High Schoolers situation is actually makes me laugh.
I don't know about you, but I've always struggled to view the cut off in terms of Singles where No.7-No.20 meet the Higher MSers like WoK.
I mean, we can confirm Kaji is somehwere between:
WoK, Inui, Yanagi, Atobe, Niou, Fuji, Shiraishi, Kite, No.17-7.
I believe all of these players would survive BJK and make Oni play a tiny bit seriously.
So maybe Kaji actually did some sort of respect from the rest of the camp?
Well out of the original G10 is pretty much Byodouin >>> everyone else based on what we know so far. Obviously the current #4 (Ryoga) and #5 (Oni) are way stronger than a person at their position ought to be.
So I don't think Kaji needs to be particularly amazing to earn that spot, since losing badly to Oni shouldn't be a strike against your power. That's why it particular sucks for him since he must have thought he got that spot due to his hard work/talent/whatever and then it turned out to be a cruel joke. Yes #4 is in the same boat, but he was just flat out unlucky. Him losing to Ryoga is no different than say if he got ran over by a car while overseas and never returned. It's a simple Act of God that's unavoidable. In Kaji's case, it seems like he's just a victim of someone's idea of a joke.
Last edited by Phantron; April 04, 2013 at 10:13 PM.