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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Hmm...Lugh's 'aura' was so strong that it made Shigure worried for Shinpaku? Even though Miu is there? That's pretty impressive.
Like a boss! Kenichi was so cool in this chapter that I couldn't stop looking at that spread! That's the power of katsujinken.
As predicted, Lugh becomes Takeda's rival, it's time for him to do some special training and step up his game.
Well, the chapter was interesting, even though it was dragged too much with Takeda's decision to give up his left hand we've seen in the previous chapter.
Ukita is still useless as always. Hope he finds a Master finally or maybe tries to ask Akisame to teach him a bit of Jiu - Jitsu, otherwise he would get trashed in a second later in the manga as the gap between him and other members of Shinpaku Alliance gets bigger and bigger every Arc.
Still, Kenichi was great. His new move that he used to stop both Takeda and Lugh was splendid. Also Kenichi showed that his speed increased by far. And that's really great.
Kenichi showed his heart, spirit and so-called The Light of Katsujinken. He was splendid, but still seems that it's not enough to take down Lugh.
About Lugh... He is obviously not weak. He seems to be a monster. People tend to believe that he will be Takeda's rival? No. I do believe he will be Kenichi's opponent as well as Berserker. Lugh seened to toy with Takeda. Takeda couldn't do anything against Lugh. Even if he wasn't stopped by Kenichi I doubt that Takeda would even fase Lugh a bit with his strongest punch, while he would have obviously lost his hand for ever.
Also talking about Lugh. The guys seems to have a damn strong aura that is closer to Masters otyherwise Shigure wouldn't have felt a nesasity to come to an aid, cause Kenichi and Miu combined are enough to take down a considerably strong Expert as we've seen in a previous Arc. Also Lugh felt Shigure from a long distance, while noone from Shinpaku couldn't perform this.
As well as Lugh didn't even feel any problem about taking down entire Shinpaku Alliance by himself, he only left because he didn't want to face Shigure. And it seems that in the next chapter we might learn more about Lugh.
P.S. Kenichi needs damn good improvement and some moves from Elder to face and take down Lugh by himself.
@Jorge D. Dragon Let me get this straight You believe Kenichi at his current level is not strong enough to defeat Lugh? Lugh an unproven yomi member who is still in training under Kensei and not even guaranteed to become his official OSNF disciple all because of a brief scuffle with Takeda (a noticeably weaker fighter than Miu and Kenichi) we expected him to dominate in the first place?
---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------
I believe you've jumped the gun a little too early on this matter I fear.
I would argue there is no reason for lugh or berserker to become kensei's main yomi so far. Neither of them seems to be practicing whatever ambiguous martial art kensei practices. I think lugh did show an ogaata style technique however it does not change that his focus on his fighting style is entirely different from what kensei regularly does. The only two who actually practice ancient martial arts as a whole as far as we know are ryuto and rimi and rimi does not quite seem like she is about to turn into kensei's main yomi. Honestly though, I think kensei is simply waiting for ryuto to heal. He was his first disciple as far as we know and the only one among all of them who did not seem to have a special talent (unless his minds eye counts although I don't think he could have know ryuto had that when he first picked him up).
Anyways, as for the chapter the development made sense. It was way too soon for lugh to be defeated. Provided akisame could heal takeda it wouldn't have been too bad if he got a tad hurt though. I think the impact of the fight would have been greater if takeda would have gotten hurt and then the fight got interrupted. That might have made takeda too important plotwise though.
As for shigure's comment on lugh's ki... I don't think we should look too deeply into that. Such comments rarely tell us how strong someone is so far. I mean, how many times have we had comments of that nature mean plainly nothing? When kenichi first fought ryuto kenichi got his ass handed to him and immediately after that ryuto made a mention of how heavy kenichi's ki was back then... Then we had the time sakaki fought that eclair guy.... That french master even mistook kenichi's ki for sakaki. Sho kano had aura or body like a master and we know even expert fighters would have given him the fodder treatment. I mean, all this chapters afterwards it still requires kenichi and miu to use borderline suicidal tactics to defeat an expert (pengulu) and miu admitted she along with other disciples would have no shot against tanaka, should we expect kano to have a shred of a shot here?
As I thought, Lugh is meant to be a rival to Takeda. There was very little reason presented for him to become Kenichi's foe. And from what we've seen, there is a difference in ability between Kenichi and Lugh. Lugh is a disciple of Kensei, but he is not his representative among Yomi. I'm looking forward to seeing the other members of Shinpaku get opportunities to shine.
Well, how come I jumped the gun, when it was even shown by the author that Shigure was feared due to sensing a strong aura andf thus she came there to help... Also Takeda was absolutely no match for Lugh and Lugh didn't fear in any way neither Miu, nor Kenichi when he decided to check Shinpaku Alliance's strength...
It's just you understimate Lugh's strength. He might not be near Master level, but he still seems to be quite strong expert as he wasn't fazed in any way from Takeda's punch, while the same Kenichi was injured with something more or less similar, when Takeda used it in their one on one battle.
Anyways, manga will show us everything about Lugh. If I would be wrong, then I'll be the one who is jumping to conclusions and the one who is wrong, but now I doubt that Lugh is as weak as you believe.
Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; October 27, 2012 at 03:44 PM.
Jorge, I usually agree with you but I think you are wrong on this matter.
The fight got interrupted, but in my opinion nothing suggested that Takeda was vastly outmatched. They were "going for the kill" risking their lives, which if anything suggests they are closely matched, and no one can say how that attack would turn out. It's in fights of equals that you risk being hurt in order to defeat opponent, stronger fighters never have to do that.
Lugh noted that Takeda would have good chance in a fight against Odin, Rimi or Berserker, but was outmatched only because of bad match-up in styles. Considering this, and considering, as you say, Lugh is a strong expert, do you think Odin and Berserker are that weaker than Lugh so that Takeda could defeat them? Or if they are also strong experts, than Takeda would also have to be strong expert in order to match them, which would again put him on the same level with Lugh. It doesn't make sense.
Would Lugh be interested in besting Takeda the next time they'd meet if he had considered him vastly weaker than himself? Don't think so.
Lugh not showing fear of Miu nor Kenichi is a typical cocky villain behavior that just about every single bad guy has used since chapter 1. The whole thing with aura sensing is a popular hype device, used very often in HSDK.
Here is my take: Lugh is a disciple, nothing more nothing less. Strong disciple, but not yet Yomi level. Takeda is a disciple as well, somewhat weaker than Lugh. Kenichi is stronger than Lugh but he could have problems because of his unconventional style. He's already beaten Odin, and would defeat Berserker, one-shot Rimi.
Also, I would argue that Takeda is somewhat of a match for Lugh. Takeda showed here that he is capable of fighting at a high enough level that enables him to compete with ordinary Yomi diciples. He not only proved was he able to keep up with Lugh, but managed to land a few hits during their scuffle. Lugh wasn't fazed of Takeda's puches because of his maneuvering/sensing technique that allowed not to take a complete dead on hit from Takeda; Which is why Takeda allowed himself to be grabbed, so he could get a direct hit. Lugh obviously respected Takeda's punching power because he didn't want to take direct hits, and he probably knows boxers have the best punches. Furthermore, we still don't know the limits of Takeda's newfound strength because he didn't even use the RS technique (he most likely has improved upon under the tutelage of his master) or any new finishing moves. Takeda was going out all, but the fight ended too early gauge his full power or Lugh's strength for that matter. I agree that Lugh is a superior fighter compared to Takeda based upon what we've seen so far, but not enough to concede the point that Takeda would have no chance at beating him. If he trains a little bit more and learns not to fight so recklessly (sacrificing your best arm just for one attack instead of patiently waiting for an opening in the opponent's defense) he can probably beat him in the future.
I'm not underestimating Lugh it's just he hasn't shown enough for me to believe he can beat Kenichi or that Takeda would have no chance of defeating him. It's still too early, but time will tell who is right
---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 PM ----------
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; October 27, 2012 at 08:32 PM.
Well, the manga might have 500 chapters and more coming but there is no way to tell how many are left. At some point kensei is going to be dealt with by the masters and at that point it is very likely that kenichi will have an opponent to deal with. It could be any of the yomi kensei has but none of them has shown far to have a bone to pick with kenichi. Rimi is out to get miu, lugh seems to be out to get takeda and berserker cares nothing for the lot of them as far as we know. The only one there who has any sort of plot relevance with kenichi is ryuto. And to be fair it does not seem like being in a wheelchair has made ryuto stop growing as a martial artist. He showed he was able to handle akira's disciples with his seikuken and seems to have adapted to his wheelchair quite well. More so, didn't lugh said just now that takeda would be a good match for odin? In a wheelchair? Even now everything points to ryuto still being at least an adequate yomi. Not to mention that ryuto regaining his legs would not really have a negative effect on the other disciples' standings. At most ryuto would regain his position as kensei's main yomi. It all depends on what purpose the author has for each of the disciples. And so far it seems that only berserker needs a defined rival and it does not seem like it is going to be kenichi. At least it wouldn't make much sense that kenichi fights a yomi that does not actually do the style of his master IMO.
I don't know dude, but if the author treats the readers to a Kenichi vs Handicapped Ryuto match; I'll be extremely pissed and might have take a break from this manga for awhile lol
---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------
Another topic of discussion is why is Ukita constantly throwing himself in harms way this arc? His desperate attempts to be the "brave hero" by acting upon suicidal if not dumb thoughts to cover up his weakness of being completely useless in fights seem rather pathetic. For a guy who wants to get stronger and impress the girl he likes Ukita is going about this the completely wrong way. At no point does putting your life in danger every other second help or benefit your friends. It's almost as if he's becoming a burden to the rest of the crew. Countless foolish actions and they have to look after him all the time. If Kenichi didn't interfere in the last second Ukita probably would of got seriously hurt. I hope he dies this arc. It'll be good for the other characters development and growth if you think about it.
---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------
This image of Kenichi right here from this week's chapter is so dope.
It reminds me of when Goku was fighting the Ginyu Force and he pushed away like two members with his energy in a similar instance
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; October 27, 2012 at 09:08 PM.
Well, Takeda was wastly outmatched. The only time he managed to get a clean hit, nothing happened. Lugh didn't even feel anything, while Takeda broke several fingers... So I doubt that another punch with the same right hand would do any better, while he would have obviously lost his left arm, so I do not know why do you believe he wasn't outclassed by Lugh, who was obviously toying with Takeda and was even ready to fight the entire Shinpaku Alliance.Quote:
Well, I believe it was mostly a praise to praise as until we see how strong Berserker is, I won't by this as Takeda was absolutely useless against Lugh. Also, well, even though Odin is oficial Kensei's Yomi, but he is crippled and can't use his legs, so being able to have a good chance against him is not that of a praise. Even though Odin seems still very good, but I also doubt Takeda would win against him.Quote:
Well, I don't think he was cocky. I believe he would be able to at least cope with Miu and Kenichi to some extent if they fought against him together. The thing about aura... of course it might be a plot device, but I doubt Shigure would have come if she didn't consider Lugh a threat to Miu and Kenichi...Quote:
Well, it might be a matter of perception, but I clearly see it the opposite way from you.
I don't believe Lugh was just cocky and brave standing in front of entire Shinpaku Alliance and confronting all of them if ge knew he couldn't do this... He actually managed to take down Tor and Sieg in mere seconds and then proceeded to fight Takeda who looked just useless against Lugh. He only managed to lay one clean hit and got more damage to himself from that hit, while Lugh didn't get any damage and didn't even feel any pain. And if Kenichi wouldn't interfere, then Takeda would have lost his main hand and become as useless as he was before Akisame's treatment. So I don't see why you believe that this fight was close and Lugh is weaker than Kenichi.
Also the talk between Lugh and Odin as I see it was meant to show that Odin believes that Kenichi is damn strong overall, but he still says that Kenichi is a useles foul, that's what surprised Lugh...
And about the fact that you mentioned about Kenichi training the entire manga and Lugh considerably less time... Do you remember for how long Ryuto was training under Kensei? Well, Lugh and Rimi seem to train more or less the same ammount of time under him as they seem to have lead other groups like Ragnarok. Only Berserker trainede less, but of course Lugh wasn't as strong as Odin before and might be even more or less equal now due to Ryuto's injury, but he seems quite strong and I don't think we should understimate him.
You are giving too much credit to a new char that hasent really done anything. First of all Lugh didnt really accomplish anything against Takeda, he dislocated 1 finger (didnt broke and Takeda placed the finger back right after), he did dodge his punches but then again he didnt manage to inflict any damage on Takeda. Also as he mentioned boxers are weak against his style so it is not surprising he had the upper hand.
About Thor and Sieg what did he really accomplish there? Thor is one of the weakest members of the alliance, he hasent really done anything major since his fight against kenichi back on his ragnarok days and Sieg is a counter type fighter so he purposely let Lugh hit him while he "breaking" Siegs neck had quite a visual impact it did no damage to him as we saw he just placed his neck back.
The thing with Shigure as kkck said (he/she even provided plenty of examples) is just a hype move, saying someone has a powerfull aura right before a fight is just a common way to make them look strong. Lugh might be really strong but for what has being shown so far there is really no evidence to back that up, also, your giving him way too much credit nobody from official yomi could fight Kenich and Miu at the same time a non official member would stand no chance.
Last edited by Unholy; October 28, 2012 at 10:03 AM.