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Thread: Claymore 133 Discussion

  1. #136
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Clare cutting up Cassandra like butter? Fine, highly disappointing but acceptable--Cassandra was the last chance for an AB to actually pose a threat to Claire but Yagi has blown so many opportunities that it doesn't make much of a difference at this point. I'll have to live with the fact that I haven't felt an ounce of tension since Pieta.

    The fact that Clare just matched Irene (at least in her mind)? The mere idea that Irene could go about chopping up Abyssal Beings is ridiculous. At one point they were an insurmountable obstacle that the main characters couldn't hope to match. Just way too much villain decay for my brain to accept.

    Everyone seems ecstatic over Clare's overpoweredness so maybe I have outdated opinions on what villains should be like. Maybe pushover opponents is the way to go--hell, I'll even admit OnePunch-Man is my favourite shounen series being serialized right now. But unfortunately Claymore isn't a comedy so I'm having a hard time accepting this development.

  2. #137
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    I also join the group of the people that like Cassy's design. Imo she is a very cool abyssal

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  4. #138
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BleachFan2010's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozles View Post
    Clare cutting up Cassandra like butter? Fine, highly disappointing but acceptable--Cassandra was the last chance for an AB to actually pose a threat to Claire but Yagi has blown so many opportunities that it doesn't make much of a difference at this point. I'll have to live with the fact that I haven't felt an ounce of tension since Pieta.

    The fact that Clare just matched Irene (at least in her mind)? The mere idea that Irene could go about chopping up Abyssal Beings is ridiculous. At one point they were an insurmountable obstacle that the main characters couldn't hope to match. Just way too much villain decay for my brain to accept.

    Everyone seems ecstatic over Clare's overpoweredness so maybe I have outdated opinions on what villains should be like. Maybe pushover opponents is the way to go--hell, I'll even admit OnePunch-Man is my favourite shounen series being serialized right now. But unfortunately Claymore isn't a comedy so I'm having a hard time accepting this development.
    You must remember that Cassandra didnt even attmpt to dodge Clare and after she was attacked she shrugged it off and started regenerating, she hasnt even begun fighting yet. Once she brings the Dust Eater out it will be a more dangerous situation for everyone against her. Also remember when Cassandra fought Audrey Rachel and Nina? She didnt look all that powerful then but she quickly kicked their butts when the Dust Eater was unleashed. And also maybe she was letting Clare hit her on purpose to see what she was capable of? Becasue shes probably seen what the other Ghosts are capable of ^^

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  6. #139
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    I saw what I saw. Cassandra will be lucky to scratch Clare. She might take a bite out of Deneve and kill a few of the ABs (and I'm starting to even doubt that much) but that'll be the full extent of the damage she does.

    That has been Yagi's shtick for the past 60 chapters what makes you think he'll change now? No, he's too scared to take any risks at this point, gotten too comfortable in his writing, or maybe he's run out of steam. He even spares random characters like Anastasia's pal (Nike?). Completely random Claymore that should by all means be dead but no sirree. Not that he has to kill any characters but if you're going to put randoms into position to die again and again and not a single minor character gets wounded beyond plot-induced-healing than the conclusion to all the other fights in the series are already spelled out.

    Villains lose all credibility you know? Can't even be considered villains really. Ophelia was a villain, Riful was a villain, Rigardo was a villain, Isley was a villain. Cassandra is just a story prop.
    Last edited by Snoozles; November 30, 2012 at 08:04 PM.

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  8. #140
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Quote:
    Villains lose all credibility you know? Can't even be considered villains really. Ophelia was a villain, Riful was a villain, Rigardo was a villain, Isley was a villain. Cassandra is just a story prop.
    Wow. Nicely put.

    But really, what is Cassandra's role in the story now? is it just to wake up priscilla? because that seems pretty lame to me. What happens when they do meet up? will Priscilla absorb Cassandra and then will she turn to dust?

    Quote Quote:
    He even spares random characters like Anastasia's pal (Nike?).
    I know, and she was terrible. Well maybe not terrible, but she served almost no purpose, just like Audrey and Rachel. I don't know why it was necessary to keep her alive and have no one die.
    Last edited by Claymore1; November 30, 2012 at 08:31 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Imo people are simply expecting too much from a character (Cassy) that joined the story with very clear limitations: since the very beginning she was nothing more than an "object" whose only real purpose is to lure Prissy.
    Considering that Cassy is in reality already dead, imo she's doing great (I'm still enjoying the way she killed Roxy,what a satisfying moment! ) and is far more interesting than other enemies (like the AFs.......)

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  11. #142
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post
    Wow. Nicely put.

    But really, what is Cassandra's role in the story now? is it just to wake up priscilla? because that seems pretty lame to me. What happens when they do meet up? will Priscilla absorb Cassandra and then will she turn to dust?


    I know, and she was terrible. Well maybe not terrible, but she served almost no purpose, just like Audrey and Rachel. I don't know why it was necessary to keep her alive and have no one die.
    cassandra really isn't supposed to be a villain really to begin with. she is part of the plot. hell she is not even the one who woke up priscilla. that was hysteria in her dying moments. i do question using her as only that though.... actually, none of these awakened are villains. they are victims of a lie and of a curse. evne priscilla is sympethetic. she was insane. and when a claymore awakens, their human tendencies are smothered by feral demonic desire. in the end, They are no more killing people than the victims of the yoma parasite.

    either way, the reason why we have not had a lot of death, even with minor characters, is because yagi has it set up that the seven ghosts have advanced their skills to a level that they can survive and, also, help others survive. especially with a very certian someone able to aid other claymore in regenerating their injuries.
    basically it is this. normal claymores specialize in fighting yoma. the sevne ghsot became specilized in fighting awakened beings.
    if suddenly all of the claymore around them were killed off then it would pretty much make the poitn he made moot.

    and i do not understand why people keep on complaining about the sevne ghosts surviving, or character near or around them surviving either. it was already shown that the ghosts are quite capable of evading and surviving attacks by stronger enemies. then again, the fact they eluded one as powerful and adaptable as riful is easy to forget. that happened, what, five years ago real time?
    if he has already shown they are capable of these things, it is a more acceptable plot armor becuase it comes from theri skills.

    ---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

    he did take time to make her sympathetic. she is pretty much a screw ball in her normal state. her profane awakened form pretty much shows that.

    actually, she was not even the one that woke up priscilla if you think about it. that was, in fact, hysteria, in her dying moments. cassandra just had the bad luck of having a bit of priscilla inside of her too. whole reason she has been heading there is becuase she is drawn to priscilla through those memories. and we really have no idea what is gonna happen if she does reach her, either. like no one saw the fact that the destroyer would invade priscilla's body when clare was released. i am probably everyone else was expecting priscilla be to released in a weakened state.
    gotta hand it to yagi, sol many things could happen now. priscilla's release did nto go as we expected. not to mention this new comer, able to survive direct contact with priscilla's brutish strength, may well sense the sliver of priscilla in cassandra and attack her. hell, perhaps the fact the destroyer is inside of priscilla will make it that priscilla will not merge with cassandra. hell, maybe the destroyer will even infect cassandra before they make contact.
    there are so many directions this could go now.

    .......actually, cassandra is alive. this is what one calls a successful ressurrection. her more or less zombified nature here is because of priscilla's will affecting her screw ball awakened head. and i saw that she regained herself for a few seconds there, but priscilla's mind pulled at hers again.

    ---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

    actually her dust eater will be utterly useless against smalelr opponnents. the soul reason it was so effective was becuase, well, she fell out of the normal attack range of her enemies.

    i will give ya that. clare will not one shot cassandra anytime soon. though that was a pretyt close shave for the abyssal one. she will have to be more careful. but let us not overestimate her. she has no idea what the other ghosts do becuase she was too fixated on attacking her hated foe. it is doubtful she let that happen. she was cuaght off guard, and shows that clare might be able to harm her.

    ---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

    i think that was jsut clare's conclusion. i think that arm is far stronger than it ever was with irene.

    let us not count out cassandra yet. she is a bit mind raped at the moment, and was caught off guard. however she obviously dodged the attack and avoided any mortal damage. i highly doubt clare will be able to get that close to cassandra's vital area nearly as easily as before.

    actyually i think irene invented that technique for combating awakening beings. designed for as much defensive as offensive, shredding all that is close. of course the range is limited to the length of the sword and if the sword can even cut into the enemy with that strength.
    let us also not forget that there is a primary difference here between irene and clare. something is different about clare now, something is not right..... .beyond that, irene and normal claymores hunted yoma. clare and the other ghosts became experts of hunting awakened beings. a fundamental difference if you think about it, as there is a steep difference of ability and power between the two monsters.

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  13. #143
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Elandyll's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Daft means silly or mad it just like me saying "Are you crazy" so you misunderstood( and i am aware that daft can also be used to mean stupid). and you agreeing with him is irrelevant . but now that we are talking why do you agree what makes the awakened beings less good now then before?? dont just say it defend it
    No desire to go yet again after that, it's been discusses ad nauseam when chapters 120 and 121 came out. Point is that the designs of Hysteria and Roxanne have been highly criticized, Cassandra and the stupid tentacle-heads as well although a bit less. Those designs were seen as unimaginative compared to previous designs, all the way to pretty awful relating to Roxanne's legs in awakened form.

    As per Clare's new "Overpoweredness"... In a world where Raki can fight Claymores, where Miria can kill one of the top #1 that -ever- existed single handedly, and then the ghosts can kill 1 top Abyssal and survive around 2 of them going at it without a single death at the end ... I'd say it's ... logical power scaling?

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  15. #144
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elandyll View Post
    No desire to go yet again after that, it's been discusses ad nauseam when chapters 120 and 121 came out. Point is that the designs of Hysteria and Roxanne have been highly criticized, Cassandra and the stupid tentacle-heads as well although a bit less. Those designs were seen as unimaginative compared to previous designs, all the way to pretty awful relating to Roxanne's legs in awakened form.

    As per Clare's new "Overpoweredness"... In a world where Raki can fight Claymores, where Miria can kill one of the top #1 that -ever- existed single handedly, and then the ghosts can kill 1 top Abyssal and survive around 2 of them going at it without a single death at the end ... I'd say it's ... logical power scaling?
    i think its rude and unconstructive to a conversation when you say "stupid tentacle head things" when i like them

    and i liked Hysteria's body she looked like a harpy( i will say that after she stated altering her body she stated looking like a bug lol) and Roxanne looked like a robot was kinda cool had not seen a awakened like that.

    and Lol to cassy just casually moving her head to the side to dodged clares attack without a care in the world lol

    but as you said you apparently have no desire to go on about that as you have been discussing it " ad nauseum" for over 10 chapers so dont feel pressured to reply
    "Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

  16. #145
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elandyll View Post
    No desire to go yet again after that, it's been discusses ad nauseam when chapters 120 and 121 came out. Point is that the designs of Hysteria and Roxanne have been highly criticized, Cassandra and the stupid tentacle-heads as well although a bit less. Those designs were seen as unimaginative compared to previous designs, all the way to pretty awful relating to Roxanne's legs in awakened form.

    As per Clare's new "Overpoweredness"... In a world where Raki can fight Claymores, where Miria can kill one of the top #1 that -ever- existed single handedly, and then the ghosts can kill 1 top Abyssal and survive around 2 of them going at it without a single death at the end ... I'd say it's ... logical power scaling?
    she did not kill her single handedly. she defeated, at first, no handedly. lol. anyway, she used he opponnent's weaknesses to her advantage, and used her advantage of being able to fight on a level near awakening to her advantage. and she, again, used strategy against hysteria, taking advantage of her ego yet again. she lead hysteria to her death by challenging her speed, something she was incapable of ignoring, especially as an impuslive awakened.
    raki can't really fight claymores. those two were not exactly going for the kill.
    also, there is obviously a certain amount of safe distance one can use to seperate yourself from the carnage fo two abyssal fighting. that is what they focused on.
    and no, not everyone survived the battle of the rebellion. however a majority survived thanks to the abilities the ghosts developed.

    hell tis not like no one dies at all here. remember whne that awakened number two attacked rabona? maybe not a full city of people, but a lot of them died.

  17. #146
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    Wink Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Quote:
    I don't think that calling someone daft for their opinion on AB/ AO design (opinion that many -including me- happen to share) is very conducive to intelligent discussion...
    For the record referring to a character with the r-word in a derogatory manner is not very conducive to a civil discussion. That is not directed towards anyone in particular.

    Quote Quote:
    Cassandra, Roxanne, and Hysteria all had disappointing awakened forms. Hysteria and Cassandra especially. Isley, Riful, Dauf, Rigaldo, or Ophelia they all had unique and amazing awakened designs. I haven't seen cool ABs like them in a while.
    It's perfectly fine if that's how you feel. I can't argue over the notion of what is cool or amazing anymore than over someone's favorite colour being blue. I do take a bit of issue with "unique" though. When it comes to artistic style and general design I feel consistency in aesthetics to be something to be lauded! As an example anime Hilda was grossly out of place as a matter of style so that uniqueness I cannot extoll.

    Quote Quote:
    Point is that the designs of Hysteria and Roxanne have been highly criticized
    Indeed, there was no general consensus.

    Quote Quote:
    In a world where Raki can fight Claymores
    Now this is something I haven't heard of. I do recall Raki having a sparring match with claymore trainees, one that had originated out of curiosity. It's a sport that would have been quite unfair had Raki not already had experience sparring with a former claymore, and a master swordsmen at that!

    Quote Quote:
    where Miria can kill one of the top #1 that -ever- existed single handedly
    "Brains over brawn" has played a big role in Claymore since the very beginning. That is not to say Hysteria lacked brains as she is skilled and experienced enough to have quickly found a means to avoid damage from Miria's enhanced phantom, something that Miria herself commended! But an error in judgement in the heat of the moment born from an unwillingness to get one's hands dirty did lead to her downfall in a fierce battle.

    Quote Quote:
    , and then the ghosts can kill 1 top Abyssal and survive around 2 of them going at it without a single death at the end
    This statement is a bit misleading. The ghosts played an important role that led to an abyssal's defeat but they were not the ones that dealt the important damage that caused it. As a fun bit of trivia: an abyssal has never directly killed a claymore with more than one line of dialogue, Renee's case lacks confirmation unfortunately.

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  19. #147
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    @lordoffantasy

    There's nothing wrong with characters not dying. I don't have a problem with an author not killing off characters. I'm a an avid reader of One Piece, how many named characters has Oda killed off? Not many. Here's the thing, there's still tension in the fights, emotional investment. There's none of that here. How many care whether Cassandra lives or dies beyond her use as a plot device? I'd wager not many. Not much of a character. I don't even want to see this fight (although I'm interested in how Octavia's AB form looks but beyond that...).

    To top it all off Yagi doesn't have well choreographed fights. His heroines only have three states of injury: unscathed, Deneve, and dead. Not bad in and of itself but it seems like he can't even add a close shave or changes in momentum during a fight. Either one side dominates or the other does. Very boring, very stale.

    I don't have anything in particular against the devices Yagi has chosen to use but I do have a problem with how he's chosen to use them.

    Anyway, don't mind me. I'm just an old man whining about the good old days when I used to look forward to reading Claymore each month.

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  21. #148
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozles View Post
    @lordoffantasy

    There's nothing wrong with characters not dying. I don't have a problem with an author not killing off characters. I'm a an avid reader of One Piece, how many named characters has Oda killed off? Not many. Here's the thing, there's still tension in the fights, emotional investment. There's none of that here. How many care whether Cassandra lives or dies beyond her use as a plot device? I'd wager not many. Not much of a character. I don't even want to see this fight (although I'm interested in how Octavia's AB form looks but beyond that...).

    To top it all off Yagi doesn't have well choreographed fights. His heroines only have three states of injury: unscathed, Deneve, and dead. Not bad in and of itself but it seems like he can't even add a close shave or changes in momentum during a fight. Either one side dominates or the other does. Very boring, very stale.

    I don't have anything in particular against the devices Yagi has chosen to use but I do have a problem with how he's chosen to use them.

    Anyway, don't mind me. I'm just an old man whining about the good old days when I used to look forward to reading Claymore each month.
    no, no, i do agree a bit here. its entertaining, but does get somewhat stale after a while.
    personalyl i also admit that claymore has gotten swlightly stale, but i stil llook forward to each month regardless. it is Definaintly not nearly as stale as some fo the manga out there.
    personally, i do feel a bit of tension here. mainyl from the fact we have no idea what is going to happen next. admitably he has set it up that the characters are capable. then again, look at their battlefield. an abyssal one trying to bee line to an enityt that succeeds it, who is currently engaged with another creature on its level. the unknown plots of an insane scientist and a mole who seems disturbingly interested in the current events despite his job beign complete.

    cassandra pretty much HAS to die either way. something like her running around is not an option. however, i feel something is amiss. there are multiple factors going on here. and then there is rubel. what the hell is he diong? why would he still be here? his job is done.
    cassandra admitably became more of an object than a character. however i blame that mostly on the fact that once someone awakens, their humanity is gone. cassandra pretty much got a long overdue revenge. now she is beign puppetted.

    however, i would not count out yagi jut yet. when it was revealed that yoma were in fact parasitic entities, suddenly things that happened in the past suddenly had significance. over a hundred and twenty chapters, and over a decade later, i found that yagi probably had that as an idea the whole time. the crying yoma from chapter 1. why would a yoma cry? how could there be anything left of raki's brother if the yoma simply devoured his brain and memories and taken his shape? it all turned out to be a hint that yoma were not what they were claimed to be.
    ....let us just wait in see.

  22. #149
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Maybe Irene's Quicksword could in fact chop up AB's, but Irene herself couldn't. With Clare's abilities then, and at the 'power' (however you define that) that Irene had it, it becomes a more potent weapon. (although even in typing this I can see some holes in it). In any case Yagi has to get Clare somewhere near Priscilla's power so she can at least put up a fight, otherwise it would look even more ridiculous than some AB's being slaughtered with a single technique.

  23. #150
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    The original AOs gave off a feeling of strength and danger that the new three sadly lack, though I must admit I was amused by Cassandra's '.......' after Clare's attacks. She's obviously not taking them seriously.

    Though Clare has grown stronger, it doesn't seem like she has reached a level where she can take on an Abyssal One alone.

    Priscilla is jobbing. Is she the one fighting? Her eyes look normal, and there's that characteristic lack of expression, but she's not running her mouth off like she usually does in fights.

    How is it that she's losing the mental fight anyway? I thought they were somewhat even.

    Anyway, seems like the QS is truly a broken technique, especially when backed by impressive stats (which Clare seems to have at the moment).

    I dare say it would down 99.9 % of opponents. Ultimate and simultaneous attack and defense. I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to come up with it.

    Why didn't Clare use it against Priscilla again? Well, Riful doll seems to be a plot device (shoddy writting) specifically geared to weaken Priscilla, so she'll most likely be at the receiving end of the QS.

    On another note, Clare has unlocked a new ability: she can fly! Consider how she floats in mid-air while destroying some heads, then how she somehow accelerates through another head and then angles down through Cassie's shoulder. That suspiciously looks like flying...
    Shiro 2

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