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Thread: Claymore 133 Discussion

  1. #151
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Quote:
    The original AOs gave off a feeling of strength and danger that the new three sadly lack, though I must admit I was amused by Cassandra's '.......' after Clare's attacks. She's obviously not taking them seriously.
    Imo that "......" has a completely different meaning, especially since she wasn't able to dodge Claire's attack completely......infact while she has "........" she turn to observe Claire, imo that's an indication that she is thinking that Claire could be a problem (to be precise infact she had a "!" of surprise just in the previous panel)

    Quote Quote:
    Though Clare has grown stronger, it doesn't seem like she has reached a level where she can take on an Abyssal One alone.

    We have not seen yet Claire at full power (even if i think Yagi will keep that for Priscilla, now the ABs will probably take the spotlight in the fight against Cassy, they came for that reason afterall)

    Quote Quote:
    Why didn't Clare use it against Priscilla again?
    My personal opinion is that Claire planned to use the QS in QoB mode hoping to surprise Prissy and cut her head......unfortunately her "mental block" ruined her plan.

    Quote Quote:
    On another note, Clare has unlocked a new ability: she can fly! Consider how she floats in mid-air while destroying some heads, then how she somehow accelerates through another head and then angles down through Cassie's shoulder. That suspiciously looks like flying...
    She's logically simply using the tentacles (without head) as foothold...
    Last edited by MalakTawus; December 01, 2012 at 05:11 AM.

  2. #152
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    While the flying bit was said in jest, I took a look and saw no headless tentacles Clare was standing on. She's just floating there. Wouldn't the QS also obliterate part of the neck? Or is it that Yagi doesn't bother showing her standing on them? Like that sword Miria fell on that wasn't there right before she fell on it?

    Anyway, going by the translation, they didn't slow Cassandra down at all which is why I was saying she doesn't take them seriously. Hell, she might not have been trying to dodge seriously, considering she can regenerate rather fast. Not to mention that she might not all be in there, since she's still headed for Priscilla, thus affecting her reactions.

    Unless Clare has gained some humongous yoki boost, I'm not sure her 'powering up' would enable her to defeat Cassandra. Useful, certainly, but I'll have to see her release her yoki before accepting that. If the Ghosts have a Rosemary-like reaction, well, then, game on.
    Shiro 2

  3. #153
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Quote:
    While the flying bit was said in jest, I took a look and saw no headless tentacles Clare was standing on. She's just floating there.
    Ehm, i mean the tentacles whose heads have already been cut. And no, it's quite clear that Claire cut only the head, not the whole tentacle, so she OBVIOUSLY can use the part of the tentacle that is left as her foothold.

    Quote Quote:
    Or is it that Yagi doesn't bother showing her standing on them?
    Obviously this. Claire can't fly, so it doesn't take a genius that she is using the tentacles. The only reason that you don't see the foothold is 'cause in those panels Yagi draw only the part where the attacks land on the targets.
    Quote Quote:

    Unless Clare has gained some humongous yoki boost, I'm not sure her 'powering up' would enable her to defeat Cassandra.
    Claire has always possessed immense yoki (probably easily greater than Cassy), the real question is if she has learned how to release it.

  4. #154
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    I'm super super busy right now.. But I must say.. What a chapter!! Can't wait for the English release.

  5. #155
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lordoffantasy View Post

    and i do not understand why people keep on complaining about the sevne ghosts surviving, or character near or around them surviving either. it was already shown that the ghosts are quite capable of evading and surviving attacks by stronger enemies. then again, the fact they eluded one as powerful and adaptable as riful is easy to forget. that happened, what, five years ago real time?

    No. No, I think you are capable of understanding just fine why people are complaining. Because the exact same complaints are constantly re-surfacing in multiple threads, from multiple people, for multiple months now.

    What you probably mean to say is "i do not agree." And there's nothing wrong with that. I am definitely in the crowd of complainers on this point... where no one is dying, every minor claymore lives, etc etc etc.

    ------------------------------------
    In your post, you do bring up an interesting point that I often forget since Pieta: The Ghosts are strong now - real strong. Galatea Claire Miria are most likely No.1's now- if we were to imagine the Organization still being alive and ranking claymores. They did not have innate, natural No.1 ability and power way back when they started their careers, but they have everything they need now to be No.1's.

    And, these 3 are pretty much "ancient claymores" for all intents and purposes- living pretty far beyond an average No.1. And like Dragons in classical D&D, they only get far more powerful as they age, apparently. This is especially true with Claire and Miria. Claire is virtually "The Swiss Army Blade" of claymores! Look at how many techniques she's been able to lift throughout her career!

    And I can appreciate this power and ability, to a point. But I will re-iterate that what I am not appreciating is that the sense of danger and/or tension is long dead in this manga.

    Another side effect of this complete lack of mortality... is that now we have too many ultra-powerful claymores standing around and it crowds their dialogue, it weakens their roles (they are blending in with the other uber-powerfuls that are standing around), it prevents any weaker claymore from possibly discovering a true personality or stepping up. It prevents any sort of lesser claymore "finding herself" at all.

    I ask you to just look at the plot and dialogue lately, it is atrocious. Lately the claymores may as well be townsfolk in terms of what they have to say.

  6. #156
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Based View Post
    I do take a bit of issue with "unique" though. When it comes to artistic style and general design I feel consistency in aesthetics to be something to be lauded! As an example anime Hilda was grossly out of place as a matter of style so that uniqueness I cannot extoll.
    Unique may have not been the the right word but i meant it as the older awakened beings looked far more dangerous. As it is said, Cassandra looks like she is giving birth. The postion which she is in is a very strange one. And Hysteria's original design was pathetic and it was widely criticized for its insect like legs and weird wings. Isley looked dangerous, as did Dauf and luciella (just random examples). Cassandra, Hysteria, and Roxanne did have 'unique' forms but i don't believe that they were as great as the previous AOs. Roxanne had the coolest form out of the other two but she is not even close to Riful or Isley.

  7. #157
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    My opinion on characters dying:

    i think that sometimes the death of an important character can be a great spin to the story, but if the only ones that die are the "useless characters", than maybe i prefer everyone surviving.
    At least if everyone survives i can at least notice that everyone got more or less the same treatment, if only secondary characters die than it's more disturbing for me since it seems even more "forced"......said that, i understand that some people may want some deaths once in a while to let the manga keep a certain tone (and i guess i can agree with this point).
    The funny thing is that even if part of me would want an important character to die (or more than one), part of me has difficulties liking this idea since i got too much attached to some characters (especially the old cast),lol........i wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to Yagi after all these years

    .............i just hope Claire and Raki will have an happy ending, if that happens maybe i could endure important deaths, but i would REALLY hate a tragic ending for those two

  8. #158
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    No one should die for the sake of dying. That's just bad writing. But if you set up a story a certain way, have the balls to go through with it.

    Rigaldo made an appearance, and Claymores dropped like flies. It was the logical conclusion of the power difference between him and them.

    Then they face a goddamn AO, and hey, they are still kicking. Yagi went out of his way to dumb Hysteria down, then went the extra mile and had the plot quite literally get rid of her. Her awakened form was just...just...

    If you are going to treat a character like that, don't introduce her to begin with. But I liked her, which is why I'm annoyed about it.

    I'm yet to see anyone here (maybe haven't looked enough) showing some kind of anxiety about the survival of the Ghosts. That tells me mostly everyone expects them to make it through. Facing an AO. Sure there could be a few surprises (again not necessarily death), but the tension is gone.

    And where is goddamn God Eye Galatea? Or are Helen and Deneve also no. 1 material?
    Shiro 2

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  10. #159
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    In Pieta the warriors were not as strong as they are now and the weaker warriors can benefit from the ghosts defending them.
    Even in Pieta if there were around warriors like Raph,Teresa, Irene or whatever i REALLY doubt that we would have had all those deaths.
    At that time the warrior with the highest rank was Miria, and tbh she wasn't THAT powerful to begin with.
    The only real monster over there was Claire, but she wasn't obviously ready to use her power "normally".


    .....anyway, iirc some warriors actually died in the last battle, it's just that they weren't known warriors.
    ....also at first i considered Histy's design to be disappointing, but after i got used to it i actually ended up liking it a lot.

    Quote Quote:
    I'm yet to see anyone here (maybe haven't looked enough) showing some kind of anxiety about the survival of the Ghosts.
    I can confirm that you haven't looked enough since I AM WORRIED.I admit that i don't think that Cassy will kill anyone "important" BUT soon Prissy will probably join the fight, and when that happens i definitely feel that someone of the old cast will be killed since that would be the perfect way for Yagi to give Prissy an huge impact and fuel once again Claire's hate.
    Yes, i know that Claire already hates Prissy for killing Teresa, but Teresa's death is too far in time imo so i totally see Yagi powering up Prissy's evilness with some fresh blood.
    I don't think everything will go well this time, not one bit.

  11. #160
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    I completely agree with Dark Night on this. I don't want to repeat myself so I'll direct anyone who's interested to a post I've made about a week ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoozles View Post
    Clare cutting up Cassandra like butter? Fine, highly disappointing but acceptable--Cassandra was the last chance for an AB to actually pose a threat to Claire but Yagi has blown so many opportunities that it doesn't make much of a difference at this point. I'll have to live with the fact that I haven't felt an ounce of tension since Pieta. (...)
    Yagi has hinted from the start that Clare is special. He repeated it on many occasions, particularly by emphasizing the fact that Clare has Teresa inside just after he had shown how godly she was. So the logical conclusion here would be that Clare with time could come close to Teresa's level. Not much later he has shown signs of Clare's godly (i.e. Teresa) element when she basically won the fight with male AB by herself even though it could easily deal with Miria and Claymores who were supposedly much stronger than her (heck, even Miria has felt that before her stood someone much stronger than her). In each following arc we've been watching Clare grow in power and it was done much better than for example in "One Piece of shit" manga. And it doesn't matter to me that Oda adds some comedic elements, to me it's no excuse for the plot which is completely random, repetitive and annoying (but that's for another discussion in a different thread).

    The point is, Clare needed A LOT of her sweat and blood shed to reach this level and the main thing that helped her reach that was her drive for revenge (plus the godly element I've mentioned about). So in her case I find it perfectly plausible and convincing that she could do what she has shown in this chapter. It's completely different from getting a power up from nowhere like in Bleach/Naruto/One Piece. This is the result of over 10 years' blood, sweat and tears in the amounts that no Claymore has reached. Basically Clare was a piece of carbon which transformed to a piece of uncut diamond to finally reach the perfectly cut diamond state. And Yagi has shown us every step of the process hence I love it.

    That is completely different from Miria's development who was never considered a #1 material and whose power-ups were beyond ridiculous but that's for another discussion too.

    Anyway, Cassandra is far from being defeated so it's not like Clare has shown Teresa's level just yet. And IMO she's way beyond Irene now, she reached her level once she improved QS and combined it with her PYS (maybe it wasn't as powerful but it was certainly more accurate). Now it's power is just insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordoffantasy View Post
    (...) either way, the reason why we have not had a lot of death, even with minor characters, is because yagi has it set up that the seven ghosts have advanced their skills to a level that they can survive and, also, help others survive. especially with a very certian someone able to aid other claymore in regenerating their injuries.(...)
    I completely disagree here. None of the ghosts except for Clare has reached a level where they could go against an AO (even Miria). The only reason Miria defeated Hysteria was thanks to lame plot armour and asspully plot devices. We've seen a taste of that once Deneve and Helen met with injured and weakened Isley. Miria was also getting her ass kicked by UNAWAKENED Hysteria who was superior to Miria (which Miria reluctantly admitted) and yet awakened one chose to play with her so that she could be killed in a most ridiculous way I've seen in any manga. So no, it's not because she was strong but because her opponent gave her a head on a silver platter.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordoffantasy View Post
    (...)then again, the fact they eluded one as powerful and adaptable as riful is easy to forget. that happened, what, five years ago real time?(...)
    Eh... That is pointless comparison. Here are the reasons why they weren't cut to shreds by Riful:

    1) They were cloaked so as soon as they disappeared from her field of view they were safe
    2) From Riful's POV they were flies who wouldn't be visible once they hid in the forest
    3) Clare has given the rest of the ghosts a huge handicap/distance advantage by staying with Riful while everyone else started running and later she became a main target of Riful which allowed the rest of them to escape. If Clare wouldn't have done it anyone except for her and maybe Miria would be dead if she would choose to chase that person (so either Helen or Deneve).
    Also, notice that Clare before releasing youki had huge problems with Duff even (after 7 years timeskip) and was scared of Riful. So what she has shown now is a sign of her getting another power up while being in the blob seeing how comfortable she was fighting against an AO (when compared to a time a few months back).

    Last but not least, Clare =/= some random like Miria or even weaker character.
    Last edited by Goral; December 01, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

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  13. #161
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Well yeah, about Claire's QS and comparison on its power vs. Irene ... of course Clare's QS is now more powerful than Irene ... I wouldn't even believe this could be a question by now. Not only due to Clare's gradual upping in power in general, but also did she not incorporate some of Flora's WC into it? Right? That was supposed to make her QS a bit weaker, yet more accurate, however, I think due to her basic power now, her QS is pretty much nuke-level.
    ....
    Oh, and could someone please clarify or offer opinions on whether she can actually stack Raftel's Fighting Style onto the QS. If so, then she is pretty much ready for anybody except Priscilla. Seriously if that can be stacked, then the only limiting factor on an un-awakened Clare, is simply the size of her human body and her sword vs. big AB bodies. That's all.

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  15. #162
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Have to sleep, but first I have to say Goral, you really have changed your mind from the past couple of years about Miria from being one of her huge fans to now close to really hating her!! Is it because she just didn't match your expectations or you just were expecting too much from her that is beyond what she was capable of from the very beginning? Either way I think you're going too harsh on her, after all she isn't the prodigy, Clare is. Plus she isn't perfect and even what is close to perfection in this manga died just because she let her guard down for just a second.. So whatever mistakes she makes simply makes her more of a human that is full of holes just like anyone of us.. And who knows maybe Yagi will bring the old Miria side in the future that is full of mysteries, a genius and an amazing leader.

  16. #163
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Shiek927's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    *yawwwwwwnnn....

    Chapter 133 thread.....11 pages....I'm guessing the chapter is already out.

    My gosh though, considering how much I've been following the latest episode of a certain cartoon (which proved that an episode that seems to be entire-fanservice and shout-outs isn't a bad thing at all; quite the opposite ) over checking closely on when the latest chapter comes out, I guess this settles it: I like My Little Pony more then I do Claymore

    But, catching up, last time I was really around was getting into a giant debate with Galatea...let's see what's going on here.

    Well, my first immediate immediate impression is that Claire did give the impression of looking overpowered...but a combination of two things stopped that from being a critique -- One, that every single time it seems like some person, usually over their head, seems like they have the upper-hand over an Abyssal, they are usually in for a big surprise....and second, this is Claire we're talking about.

    I think everybody has made both cases in the past at one point and the other -- "Claire is the protagonist and so she deserves it", "No she doesn't deserve power-ups just because", "This undermines the seriousness of Claymore and makes it cliche", "It was always like this from the beginning"....

    I myself have probably taken part in all of them at least once, so really....I don't know -- It came as a surprise that she destroyed those heads so easily, but I can't find it in me to complain....and not because my fervor for Claymore has gone down, but because it's not really worth it -- Cassandra is probably hiding her true strength as Abyssals always do, and even if she isn't, at this point, it shouldn't come as a surprise that Claire has become this strong because she's had 133 chapters to develop herself.

    All the Ghosts are high single-digits, Claire and Miria are practically No.1's, and Claire is eventually going to leave Miria behind sooner or later (assuming she already hasn't)....really, I can't find it in me to complain.

    At least something good came out of this chapter -- Cassandra has finally decided to grace us with her presence....yes, after the tension and worry about if they would reach Rabona in time, the Big Race has finally come to an end......Phew! That was a close one.

    The next big thing was the Riful.....thing -- fortunately or unfortunately, it doesn't look like this is Riful...I wouldn't go as far as to say it's her child either. Honestly, I'm still not exactly sure what it is except that it has traits of both her and Dauf, so the joke Nixl made was spot-on....their are so many fusions or potential fusions in this show, I'm losing track XD.

    Punching Priscilla...mmm...I wouldn't take this as a sign that she's more powerful, of course -- we know Durability isn't something that, strangely, is ever really enhanced in this universe, no matter how strong a character seems to get. Dauf is the rare exception, but for the most part, everybody's flesh is just as supple and soft as it ever was. But in any case, their have been many instances now where someone's reaction time seemed to be bigger, or they showed physical strength that seemed to surpass her, or she seemed to cry out in pain.....This isn't my bias showing, but just the reminder that, just because it looks like someone is having a moment of weakness or appears stronger then an Abyssal or higher (or really, any character), doesn't mean they are truly surpassed....Claire and Cassandra right now are the obvious comparison.

    Rubel and Dae, nice to see they are around.....unfortunately, one thing I was hoping for, that we didn't get, was what Chronos and Lars were talking about, but the curiosity behind this Riful thing was bigger, so it's a shame we didn't get clearer ideas on this.

    And that's honestly it.....To be honest - it was a pretty short chapter. Maybe I just skimmed through it, and we have the whole month to dissect it, but it seemed alot shorter then usual; one of those months I guess?

    Oh well, as before, we'll have more then enough things to talk about this month, as we ever do - it's just a question of whether or not we're actually interested in discussing them, and that includes me.
    You know, there are as many ways to live as there are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look.

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  18. #164
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Spoiler show


    Anyway, ABs are basically a dead end. There's no future for them--except oblivion, and Yagi is consistent in delivering that future. The moment they are introduced you know what's in store for them. That makes it difficult to get attached to them (hey, always rooting for the good guys gets old. And boring). After all, villains are what create tension, and I'm not feeling it.
    Shiro 2

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  20. #165
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Elandyll's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 133 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Based View Post
    For the record referring to a character with the r-word in a derogatory manner is not very conducive to a civil discussion. That is not directed towards anyone in particular.
    Then why say that, particularly after quoting me? I do not recall ever saying something with the r word, but maybe you can enlighten me.


    Quote Quote:
    It's perfectly fine if that's how you feel. I can't argue over the notion of what is cool or amazing anymore than over someone's favorite colour being blue. I do take a bit of issue with "unique" though. When it comes to artistic style and general design I feel consistency in aesthetics to be something to be lauded! As an example anime Hilda was grossly out of place as a matter of style so that uniqueness I cannot extoll.
    Don't know why some like you or michael12 took offense to that, as again, it was largely discussed when chapters 120 and 121 came out, and many (many) were disappointed in the new AOs, it's nothing new.


    Quote Quote:
    Indeed, there was no general consensus.
    If you say so. On the other end I can distinctly remember the amount of crying. Granted, it's nothing "objective" or mathematical.

    Quote Quote:
    Now this is something I haven't heard of. I do recall Raki having a sparring match with claymore trainees, one that had originated out of curiosity. It's a sport that would have been quite unfair had Raki not already had experience sparring with a former claymore, and a master swordsmen at that!
    He spared with the twins (supposedly the replacements of Beth/ Alicia if memory serves? So no ordinary Claymore themselves), and has been taking down Yomas left and right with apparent ease.
    That would place him in the vicinity of ... say ... Clarice, number 47 Claymore?


    Quote Quote:
    "Brains over brawn" has played a big role in Claymore since the very beginning. That is not to say Hysteria lacked brains as she is skilled and experienced enough to have quickly found a means to avoid damage from Miria's enhanced phantom, something that Miria herself commended! But an error in judgement in the heat of the moment born from an unwillingness to get one's hands dirty did lead to her downfall in a fierce battle.
    You are missing the point by a mile it looks like, by arguing the fine points. The "How" was never my concern about Miria defeating a top #1, just the fact that she did is enough to prove my point.


    Quote Quote:
    This statement is a bit misleading. The ghosts played an important role that led to an abyssal's defeat but they were not the ones that dealt the important damage that caused it. As a fun bit of trivia: an abyssal has never directly killed a claymore with more than one line of dialogue, Renee's case lacks confirmation unfortunately.
    Again, you are nitpicking.
    The fact remains that our good friends not only survived an encounter with 3 Abyssals sent after them, they are directly responsible for killing one (even if the killing blow itself was from another AO), and besides that -nobody- died during their fight.

    In the end, my point remains: In this kind of setup, Claire's power up is nothing that shouldn't be expected after what she has been going through, particularly for the main character of a Shonen on its 22nd volume (23rd even?).

    Now this being said, I agree that things aren't probably this simple, and that the damage to Cass might be superficial and she might have some surprises in store for Claire.
    The Ghosts should be very thankful that someone is providing distraction for Pris atm.
    Last edited by Elandyll; December 01, 2012 at 04:23 PM.

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