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Thread: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

  1. #46
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Citation needed? We've seen TPhantom in three matches so far (vs Sanada, vs Yamato, vs Ochi/Mouri... I guess four matches if you want to count the one point vs Fuji) and it's always been used continuously. In the Sanada match it was even specifically stated that Tezuka had to keep using it against Rin because he wasn't able to know when Sanada would hit Rai.
    TPhantom is a move of last resort. It's pretty much used when no other method could possibly work, because if this isn't true then you should just use TPhantom from beginning to end. You clearly don't want to waste a TPhantom on a normal hit because your arm wouldn't hold up in an exchange like this. But to do this implies you already have to know when you'll have a shot that you cannot return normally. At any rate Tezuka is always known for his crazy predicative powers (he can predict the future with Saiki) so why should it be hard to predict when a powerful move is coming? Even people with no predicative power whatsoever can usually recognize a big powershot is about to come.

    Even in the Sanada game, who can use Rai pretty much at will, note that he used Rin + Rai at the same time against TPhantom. There's no reason to believe you need Rai speed to catch up to a TPhantom shot (it was not meant to be a hard shot to return). You can't fake Tezuka into using TPhantom because if you can, beating Tezuka would be trivially easy as he'd just break his own arm after using TPhantom too many times on your normal hits. In Sanada's case I guess the implication is that he at least had to start running at Rai speed but he can abort the actual hit so the side effect won't be as great, but he still has to use a scaled down version of Rai each time to get Tezuka to use TPhantom.

    ---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    You have nothing to suggest Ochi can defeat Yukimura on Yukimura's service game. Yuki will likely keep his service game.
    If you take away Yips from Yuki, are we taking Mental Pressure from Ochi?
    Are you sure you know how tennis works? If you can't break someone's serve, you can never win against that person in a singles match. Ochi's Mach Serve is said to be unreturnable. That alone guaranteeds victory if you remove the ability to KO your opponent through other means. Ochi can have a stat of 1 in everything but as long as he can do Mach Serve at full power, he will never lose to anyone who cannot return the Mach Serve because that's how the rules of tennis works. This is practically the only thing in POT that is consistent with reality. Big serves equals to guaranteed win if you can't deal with the serve, even in POT.

  2. #47
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    At any rate Tezuka is always known for his crazy predicative powers (he can predict the future with Saiki) so why should it be hard to predict when a powerful move is coming? Even people with no predicative power whatsoever can usually recognize a big powershot is about to come.
    Why didn't he just use normal shots against Rin then and wait for Sanada to hit Rai?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    You can't fake Tezuka into using TPhantom because if you can, beating Tezuka would be trivially easy as he'd just break his own arm after using TPhantom too many times on your normal hits.
    Except that any normal hits also get sucked out. As long as you can't neutralize the spin somehow, it doesn't matter what kind of shot you hit, they all go out.

  3. #48
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Are you sure you know how tennis works? If you can't break someone's serve, you can never win against that person in a singles match.
    You can win 7-6 if your opponent makes a double fault in the tie-break, you are not really breaking anything :P

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  5. #49
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Are you sure you know how tennis works? If you can't break someone's serve, you can never win against that person in a singles match. Ochi's Mach Serve is said to be unreturnable. That alone guaranteeds victory if you remove the ability to KO your opponent through other means. Ochi can have a stat of 1 in everything but as long as he can do Mach Serve at full power, he will never lose to anyone who cannot return the Mach Serve because that's how the rules of tennis works. This is practically the only thing in POT that is consistent with reality. Big serves equals to guaranteed win if you can't deal with the serve, even in POT.
    Why should Yukimura lose his service game?
    Nothing indicated that Ochi was superior to either Atobe or Niou in terms of rallying whilst Yukimura is superior in terms of rallying.
    Are you sure you remember your point?
    Your point was Ochi > Yukimura without their specials. We can't confirm such a statement at all.

    I don't think you're getting it.

    ---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    but Atobe Kingdom can return it.
    We know that AK isn't a move that can be used point after point for a set at this stage, since Atobe has never been able to sustain it for many games continuously.

  6. #50
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why didn't he just use normal shots against Rin then and wait for Sanada to hit Rai?



    Except that any normal hits also get sucked out. As long as you can't neutralize the spin somehow, it doesn't matter what kind of shot you hit, they all go out.
    If Tezuka can use TPhantom on normal hits then he should just use TPhantom from start to finish. Of course TPhantom works on normal hits, but that's not the point. TPhantom does too much damage to yourself. You can't possibly use it on every rally because your arm will break first so you got to use it to trade for a strong move. If this isn't true then every game should just end immediately 6-0 in Tezuka's favor against anyone except Sanada, since 24 consecutive applications of TPhantom leads to a guaranteed victory and has no counter outside of Rin thus far.

    Again note that Sanada uses Rin + Rai to deal with Phantom. If there is no predicative property on when Phantom is used, he'd only need to use Rin to return Phantom. It's because Tezuka magically knows when is the best time to use Phantom to cancel out an opponent's move that Sanada must use Rin + Rai at the same time. He has to start with Rai because otherwise Tezuka would never have committed into using a Phantom. When you see the power of Phantom declined (by the smaller vortex), we can see that Sanada did not lob the ball back via Rin. A Rin + Rai can have either property depending on what Sanada wants, and the fact he uses both at the same time is because Tezuka knows when the Rai is coming somehow. Otherwise he would only need to use Rin.

  7. #51
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Again note that Sanada uses Rin + Rai to deal with Phantom. If there is no predicative property on when Phantom is used, he'd only need to use Rin to return Phantom. It's because Tezuka magically knows when is the best time to use Phantom to cancel out an opponent's move that Sanada must use Rin + Rai at the same time.
    You're missing the point of it all.
    It even says in the manga Tezuka didn't know which was coming. This discussion is going to get circular until you re-read that manga chapter.
    Tezuka has no extra prediction ability outside of SKnK and the standard prediction high level players get.
    Tezuka never "magically" knew when Rai was being hit. Sanada completely had him.

    See what Fuji says here:
    http://www.mangareader.net/422-27249...apter-352.html

    ---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

    @Phantron
    There is nothing hypothetical about the fact that neither Kite nor Marui having a technique that could individually even touch Tohno or Kimijima.
    So they don't have hypothetical strength.

  8. #52
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    man we know its a Singles match next... but what if ryoma and ryoga play.

    i predict either Sanada plays next in an official match or ryoma and ryoga in an unofficial match.

    maybe they will play at the same time. it would help ryoma boost his abilities, and rise above tokugawa, at this point i think ryoma can over come tokugawa. i the star of the show cant over come Genius1 caption byoudin, then forget it. Ryoga may provide ryoma some training next time!

    ALSO.
    Cmon.. atobe and niou get to be in matches at least twice and ryoma has no official match yet.
    whos the real prince of tennis here. to borrow from another person's quote this manga is staring to be called " atobe and friends' tennis adventures"

  9. #53
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post

    Even in the Sanada game, who can use Rai pretty much at will, note that he used Rin + Rai at the same time against TPhantom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron
    Again note that Sanada uses Rin + Rai to deal with Phantom
    What the heck are you talking about? Friggin Phantron and his conspiracy theory posts again. He used Rin and Rai interchangeably; not at the same time. You're probably getting confused by thinking of KaRinRai (A fusion of the three techniques) to return "ZSS."

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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    What the heck are you talking about? Friggin Phantron and his conspiracy theory posts again. He used Rin and Rai interchangeably; not at the same time. You're probably getting confused by thinking of KaRinRai (A fusion of the three techniques) to return "ZSS."
    Here we see Sanada using Rin and Rai:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/6.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/7.html

    Note that this game started with Tezuka serving, and the first point was scored on:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...s/c352/10.html

    The score is 0-15 at this point. Thus all the events that happened in page 6 and 7 occured during the first point scored on this game.

    It is not possible for Rai to be used by itself, because if Rai was used by itself against Phantom, it'd have gone out of the court and the score would be 15-0. If Tezuka didn't use Phantom for whatever reason against Rai, Rai would've scored and then it'd be impossible to use Rin in the next frame because Sanada would've already scored.

    So Rin and Rai cannot be used interchangeably because it'd be impossible to reach the sequence of using Rai followed by Rin that ends up with a score of 0-15 (either the score would be 15-0, or 0-15 but Rin would not be needed).

    Either Sanada can combine techs for greater effects, or he was using Rai for no reason whatsoever, but he was definitely using it in combination of Rin because the sequence of events makes it impossible to use Rai by itself (he'd have either lost a point or scored a point before the next page).
    Last edited by Phantron; November 11, 2012 at 12:44 AM.

  12. #55
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Here we see Sanada using Rin and Rai:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/6.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/7.html

    Note that this game started with Tezuka serving, and the first point was scored on:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...s/c352/10.html

    The score is 0-15 at this point. Thus all the events that happened in page 6 and 7 occured during the first point scored on this game.

    It is not possible for Rai to be used by itself, because if Rai was used by itself against Phantom, it'd have gone out of the court and the score would be 15-0. If Tezuka didn't use Phantom for whatever reason against Rai, Rai would've scored and then it'd be impossible to use Rin in the next frame because Sanada would've already scored.

    So Rin and Rai cannot be used interchangeably because it'd be impossible to reach the sequence of using Rai followed by Rin that ends up with a score of 0-15 (either the score would be 15-0, or 0-15 but Rin would not be needed).

    Either Sanada can combine techs for greater effects, or he was using Rai for no reason whatsoever, but he was definitely using it in combination of Rin because the sequence of events makes it impossible to use Rai by itself (he'd have either lost a point or scored a point before the next page).
    -_- Rai has two parts. The lightning speed movement, and the two handed shot which blows holes in racquets. He does not use Rai and Rin at the same time. He first uses Rai's movement to get to the ball, but instead of following through with the second part, he softens the spin with Rin. He used them interchangeably as Fayte says.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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  14. #56
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Here we see Sanada using Rin and Rai:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/6.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c352/7.html

    Note that this game started with Tezuka serving, and the first point was scored on:

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...s/c352/10.html

    The score is 0-15 at this point. Thus all the events that happened in page 6 and 7 occured during the first point scored on this game.

    It is not possible for Rai to be used by itself, because if Rai was used by itself against Phantom, it'd have gone out of the court and the score would be 15-0. If Tezuka didn't use Phantom for whatever reason against Rai, Rai would've scored and then it'd be impossible to use Rin in the next frame because Sanada would've already scored.

    So Rin and Rai cannot be used interchangeably because it'd be impossible to reach the sequence of using Rai followed by Rin that ends up with a score of 0-15 (either the score would be 15-0, or 0-15 but Rin would not be needed).

    Either Sanada can combine techs for greater effects, or he was using Rai for no reason whatsoever, but he was definitely using it in combination of Rin because the sequence of events makes it impossible to use Rai by itself (he'd have either lost a point or scored a point before the next page).
    Let me make a detailed explanation on what you just posted:

    Sanada has thus far been using Rai to get all of his points. Obviously, right? Then he kept using Rai and LOST all his points because of TPhantom. Tezuka was no doubt expecting Sanada to keep being stubborn and using Rai. This is why Yukimura hints at Sanada needing to use Rin, because both Rai and Rin are two handed techniques that have virtually the exact same pre-execution position/form. This is why Sanada yells out "Strike like Lightning," and then uses Rin. Even Renji did not know a Rin would pop out from that Rai "form." It is identical to the Kaidoh laser situation. Nobody knows whether Sanada will hit a Rai or a Rin when using the exact same form for both techniques. This is why Fuji says Tezuka is forced to keep using Phantom, because he wont know when Sanada will hit a Rai. That is by no means Sanada "fusing" the two techniques together like he did to return the last Zero Shiki Serve. It is merely an advanced tactic of using each of the techniques.

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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Only time Sanada uses Rin+Rai is when he uses KaRinRai, he never uses them at the same time, only to return ZSServe.

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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    I thought about the possibility of Sanada just claiming he'll do Rai but that frame still occurs after Tezuka already used TPhantom, which means there's actually no point to pretend you're using Rai because Tezuka already used Phantom anyway.

    It's possible that Sanada just decided to teleport to the ball just because he can, though I see no partiuclar reason why he'd need to use Rai's speed to reach a normal shot. TPhantom isn't supposed to be fast or hard to return in the sense of actually hitting the ball. In fact it's probably a trivially easy shot to hit back, since there's no point to make a shot that isn't supposed to land inside the court on the return hard to hit.

    That said a lot of Sanada's behavior makes no sense to begin with. Fusing Rai with Ka would not yield any more offensive power because Tezuka already cannot return Rai, so Ka+Rai is meaningless.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    I thought about the possibility of Sanada just claiming he'll do Rai but that frame still occurs after Tezuka already used TPhantom, which means there's actually no point to pretend you're using Rai because Tezuka already used Phantom anyway.
    No. Tezuka did not use Phantom, because he hit the ball back (Tezuka does not touch the ball when using Phantom). So, again, I'm still right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron
    It's possible that Sanada just decided to teleport to the ball just because he can, though I see no partiuclar reason why he'd need to use Rai's speed to reach a normal shot.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron
    That said a lot of Sanada's behavior makes no sense to begin with. Fusing Rai with Ka would not yield any more offensive power because Tezuka already cannot return Rai, so Ka+Rai is meaningless.
    That's because your logic is flawed the majority of the time. Who says Sanada wants more offensive power? That's an assumption. Sanada fused the three techniques in order to return ZSS. He most likely used the spin momentum of Ka, the accuracy of Rin, and the power of Rai. There is a multitude of possibilities as to why he did what he did.

  18. #60
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    Re: Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 90 Discussion/Predictions

    Is there anyone that thinks that Ryoga only wants to talk to Ryoma about their family relationship instead of having a match besides me?

    I think that Ryoga was waiting to get Ryoma alone to clear things between them.
    You know, it's kinda strange to be forgotten by your own brother, unless they were raised by different families (same father, different mothers).

    PoT used to have breaks from the tennis time here and there (bowling, beach, yakiniku), maybe this family chat could be the break this time.

    Discuss the yaoi side of Shingeki no Kyojin and Kuroko no Basket at the Boys Love section.

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