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Even in the Sanada game, who can use Rai pretty much at will, note that he used Rin + Rai at the same time against TPhantom. There's no reason to believe you need Rai speed to catch up to a TPhantom shot (it was not meant to be a hard shot to return). You can't fake Tezuka into using TPhantom because if you can, beating Tezuka would be trivially easy as he'd just break his own arm after using TPhantom too many times on your normal hits. In Sanada's case I guess the implication is that he at least had to start running at Rai speed but he can abort the actual hit so the side effect won't be as great, but he still has to use a scaled down version of Rai each time to get Tezuka to use TPhantom.
---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------
Nothing indicated that Ochi was superior to either Atobe or Niou in terms of rallying whilst Yukimura is superior in terms of rallying.
Are you sure you remember your point?
Your point was Ochi > Yukimura without their specials. We can't confirm such a statement at all.
I don't think you're getting it.
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Again note that Sanada uses Rin + Rai to deal with Phantom. If there is no predicative property on when Phantom is used, he'd only need to use Rin to return Phantom. It's because Tezuka magically knows when is the best time to use Phantom to cancel out an opponent's move that Sanada must use Rin + Rai at the same time. He has to start with Rai because otherwise Tezuka would never have committed into using a Phantom. When you see the power of Phantom declined (by the smaller vortex), we can see that Sanada did not lob the ball back via Rin. A Rin + Rai can have either property depending on what Sanada wants, and the fact he uses both at the same time is because Tezuka knows when the Rai is coming somehow. Otherwise he would only need to use Rin.
It even says in the manga Tezuka didn't know which was coming. This discussion is going to get circular until you re-read that manga chapter.
Tezuka has no extra prediction ability outside of SKnK and the standard prediction high level players get.
Tezuka never "magically" knew when Rai was being hit. Sanada completely had him.
See what Fuji says here:
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There is nothing hypothetical about the fact that neither Kite nor Marui having a technique that could individually even touch Tohno or Kimijima.
So they don't have hypothetical strength.
man we know its a Singles match next... but what if ryoma and ryoga play.
i predict either Sanada plays next in an official match or ryoma and ryoga in an unofficial match.
maybe they will play at the same time. it would help ryoma boost his abilities, and rise above tokugawa, at this point i think ryoma can over come tokugawa. i the star of the show cant over come Genius1 caption byoudin, then forget it. Ryoga may provide ryoma some training next time!
Cmon.. atobe and niou get to be in matches at least twice and ryoma has no official match yet.
whos the real prince of tennis here. to borrow from another person's quote this manga is staring to be called " atobe and friends' tennis adventures"
What the heck are you talking about? Friggin Phantron and his conspiracy theory posts again. He used Rin and Rai interchangeably; not at the same time. You're probably getting confused by thinking of KaRinRai (A fusion of the three techniques) to return "ZSS."Originally Posted by Phantron
Note that this game started with Tezuka serving, and the first point was scored on:
The score is 0-15 at this point. Thus all the events that happened in page 6 and 7 occured during the first point scored on this game.
It is not possible for Rai to be used by itself, because if Rai was used by itself against Phantom, it'd have gone out of the court and the score would be 15-0. If Tezuka didn't use Phantom for whatever reason against Rai, Rai would've scored and then it'd be impossible to use Rin in the next frame because Sanada would've already scored.
So Rin and Rai cannot be used interchangeably because it'd be impossible to reach the sequence of using Rai followed by Rin that ends up with a score of 0-15 (either the score would be 15-0, or 0-15 but Rin would not be needed).
Either Sanada can combine techs for greater effects, or he was using Rai for no reason whatsoever, but he was definitely using it in combination of Rin because the sequence of events makes it impossible to use Rai by itself (he'd have either lost a point or scored a point before the next page).
Last edited by Phantron; November 11, 2012 at 12:44 AM.
Sanada has thus far been using Rai to get all of his points. Obviously, right? Then he kept using Rai and LOST all his points because of TPhantom. Tezuka was no doubt expecting Sanada to keep being stubborn and using Rai. This is why Yukimura hints at Sanada needing to use Rin, because both Rai and Rin are two handed techniques that have virtually the exact same pre-execution position/form. This is why Sanada yells out "Strike like Lightning," and then uses Rin. Even Renji did not know a Rin would pop out from that Rai "form." It is identical to the Kaidoh laser situation. Nobody knows whether Sanada will hit a Rai or a Rin when using the exact same form for both techniques. This is why Fuji says Tezuka is forced to keep using Phantom, because he wont know when Sanada will hit a Rai. That is by no means Sanada "fusing" the two techniques together like he did to return the last Zero Shiki Serve. It is merely an advanced tactic of using each of the techniques.
Only time Sanada uses Rin+Rai is when he uses KaRinRai, he never uses them at the same time, only to return ZSServe.
I thought about the possibility of Sanada just claiming he'll do Rai but that frame still occurs after Tezuka already used TPhantom, which means there's actually no point to pretend you're using Rai because Tezuka already used Phantom anyway.
It's possible that Sanada just decided to teleport to the ball just because he can, though I see no partiuclar reason why he'd need to use Rai's speed to reach a normal shot. TPhantom isn't supposed to be fast or hard to return in the sense of actually hitting the ball. In fact it's probably a trivially easy shot to hit back, since there's no point to make a shot that isn't supposed to land inside the court on the return hard to hit.
That said a lot of Sanada's behavior makes no sense to begin with. Fusing Rai with Ka would not yield any more offensive power because Tezuka already cannot return Rai, so Ka+Rai is meaningless.
Irrelevant.Originally Posted by Phantron
That's because your logic is flawed the majority of the time. Who says Sanada wants more offensive power? That's an assumption. Sanada fused the three techniques in order to return ZSS. He most likely used the spin momentum of Ka, the accuracy of Rin, and the power of Rai. There is a multitude of possibilities as to why he did what he did.Originally Posted by Phantron
Is there anyone that thinks that Ryoga only wants to talk to Ryoma about their family relationship instead of having a match besides me?
I think that Ryoga was waiting to get Ryoma alone to clear things between them.
You know, it's kinda strange to be forgotten by your own brother, unless they were raised by different families (same father, different mothers).
PoT used to have breaks from the tennis time here and there (bowling, beach, yakiniku), maybe this family chat could be the break this time.