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Hakugei like Ohabu are shots that should catch out anybody who is Mid tier and below.
I think all the upgraded counters are.
We only view the triple counters not that highly because everybody in Fuji's tier wouldnt have much difficulty with them.
Marui definetely would.
I see Ryoma as being the dude that finally takes out Byoudouin. Remember how Byoudouin shat on them in that scene where he sent Tokugawa airborne?
I think Ryoma will get his revenge in similar fashion to his victory against the similarly violent Akutsu.
The fact that Marui needed to hide the path means that Ohabu curves a number of times before it repeats the same curving pattern as before.
The only logical explanation of Ohabu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession
Awesome job bringing physics to the POT world. It was that same idea that " hey, maybe I can do that in real life" that got me to play tennis. Of course my tsubame gaeshi still bounces, although very low. Unfortunately i did the goofy thing of making the same sound from the anime when I did that move, and my friends named it "the sprinkler" from then on >.<
Konomi is so unfair. He never let Kite and Tachibana win a match in the times they were in the spotlight. I don't know why he exalts both of them and then makes both lose...
And it doesn't make sense that Kite take hit of all the ball if he can hit it back. The reason why he didn't do it is just he can't. If he block the attack for Marui and hit it back, he's protecting Marui and beating the game at the same time. Why didn't he do that? He can redeem himself and win the game.
The score speaks everything about the tier level. Beside Tohno, when Kimijima remove his limit, it's 4-0 straight for 1st stringer. That shows the difference in player level.
For example, look at 3rd court vs 5th court. Base stat matter, a lot. We don't need to see the special shot to determine if a character is anything special. We look at the score of the match.
Last edited by -Ken-; November 07, 2012 at 02:34 PM.
Remember it wasn't until the second set that Tohno went above 60%, and also, its not as if Kite could return the Execution Method and be likely to take a point.
Besides Ohabu, Kite/Marui had to struggle so hard just to score points.
Remember Kimijima relaxed the entire match, and because he is the No.7, we know he is a tiny bit above Tohno.
(Since besides the equal twins, in the 1st String the higher no. in every pair has been the better player (sometimes only a tiny bit)).
Although we can be sure even if Kite tried to return some of the Execution Method's he likely wouldn't be able to for some of them, we know that Kite doesn't have a single technique that can score against either Tohno nor Kimijima in Singles.
It's likely its because he doesn't want to use any effort in matches but I think it's known he has the ability.
Remember he played the whole match relaxing with his jacket around his waist.
Really care-free attitued since he has fixed the match and he is aware he can't lose.
Honestly it's likely he is a top player anyway. Proof of this is that Volley he hits that curves even neater than Snake that he did against Marui. That was just a normal shot for him.
He outplayed Marui at the net. This is without a doubt proof of Kimijima's base skill.
It'd be nice if Konomi can bring this kind of drama into the rest of the G10 matches. I loved how this match had a surprise twist at the end with the whole saving Yukimura thing. It shows that he can make this whole ordeal more than a "Beat these guys in order to advance" shonen plot.
I got the feeling Kimijima never even took off his limiter after he realized Tohno was already going all out. He never sweat the whole match, which is usually the first indicator of someone being serious in POT, and looking at the game it's pretty much a one way beatdown delivered by Tohno.
That said I don't really feel either of them live up to the G10 label. Imagine you're playing 2 Yukimuras instead of Kimijima + Tohno, and the Yukimuras are not allowed to use any tech whatsoever. I think two Yukis would've utterly crushed Kite + Marui with just normal rally, and Yukimura openly acknowledges that G10 are overwhelmingly powerful (e.g. dialogue regarding Mach Serve). Or, put it another way, if Atobe + Niou played those two guys, and assuming they did exactly what they show, Atobe and Niou would've beaten them rather easily. Atobe's laser vision can see Mach Serve, so he'll be able to see thorugh Execution techs. Niou can deflect the shots with Tezuka Phantom/Zone, and Execution techs unbelievably uses up even more stamina than TPhantom (it's implied Niou used TPhantom about 40+ times in the tiebreaker alone, while Tohno appears out of gas by the time he hit Execution tech 1). Heck, even the 'negotiate' tech wouldn't have worked on them. Atobe isn't the kind who would want a position by favors, and he probably owns everything else that can be obtained materially. Niou would probably cut him a deal and then later pull off a mask saying it was someone else who made the deal.
---------- Post added November 08, 2012 at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was November 07, 2012 at 09:56 PM ----------
As an aside, Kite is really screwed as a singles player. In fact that's the whole reason he plays doubles in the first place.
His moves are effective against people a tier below him. Problem is due to his omni-direction teleport he already owns anyone below him in tier. Even Tezuka needed to use Hyakuren aura since he cannot outrally Kite. So his moves are no help there. Against someone in his tier, like say Fuji or Shiraishi, it's likely they'll return Habu after a few tries quite easily as it's certainly not a shot that carries insane properties by itself. Of course, against anyone above his tier, they'd just hit Habu back like it's nothing.
Basically his moves are only effective on guys he could've beaten with his basic rally to begin with. It's hard to see Habu, Big Bang, or Viking Horn posing any threat to someone even near his level because they're just not very good moves. Yes his rally ability is superb, but unless you're Yukimura or Shiraishi you need a special move that doesn't suck to win in POT too, not to mention both of these guys have respectable special moves too.
Last edited by Phantron; November 07, 2012 at 10:01 PM.
He's near but he has nothing to confidently take points from them.
Kite is Tachibana/Chitose tier.
Yukimura is the same as Sanada. So comparing Sanada to the No.7 wouldn't be right.
It's pretty likely Yuki/Sanada would make their way to Top5 comfortably.
Konomi obviously has his reasons for having Yuki play an easy match and crushing No.11.
Remember, we can't prove that if Tohno hadn't got emotionally caught up and let the racket fly out of his hand into Marui's eye that Wonder Castle would be able to prevent Execution Method No.1 or 2.
In singles neither Wonder Castle nor Ohabu would even phase Kimijima or Tohno.
Kite and Marui have nothing that could touch Kimijima or Tohno. It can be implied they can eventually return Mach Serve too since they are the higher pair.
Just from how that match went, if they can casually take points at their 60% level from Omni-Directional Shukuchiho in the background where Kite was solely focusing on defending, it means that Kimijima and Tohno are Top tier players and could go on to defeat the likes of Fuji's tier.
If you disagree take it here:
---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------
After Mouri returned ZSS, it's not out there that Kimijima could pull it off.
TZ is easily preventable once your in Fuji's tier or above, if Niou really wants to bring HJnK+TZ/TPhantom+ZSS then Atobe/Niou are taking a set max.
Since his arm is gonna snap.
After that, removing the Synchro ability Niou gained, it's pretty much a win for Tohno/Kimijima. They won't be kind and give a set away like how kind Ochi was.
Atobe Kingdom is extremely limited in Doubles. Tohno would be too violent for Atobe as much I like the guy. If you're too violent for Kite you're too violent for a number of players.
Tannhauser serve isn't really taking points at that leve now that Hiyoshi has returned it.
Kimijima's net play is beast and most likely better than Mouri's and that pushed Atobe back.
Tohno/Kimijima are clearly G10. Remember we basically saw only one of them play and they still wiped.
Last edited by Airgrimes; November 08, 2012 at 11:27 AM.
If you want to put Kite at Tachibana/Chitose level that's fine and it doesn't change anything. Tachibana can hit back random techs Chitose copied using Muga, and since Chitose is said to have mastered Muga we'll assume he has a good idea of what techs to copy as opposed to Ryoma who literally just uses things at random. At best they'd lose a point while getting used to Habu but there's no reason to believe Habu is even a particularly powerful move compared to other moves Chitose can copy. So he's still screwed against similar level competition due to lack of a reliable move.
Yukimura's basic rally level is no longer the godlike level he was in POT once the upper tier HS players are introduced. Unless he's holding back (no indication of this whatsoever) Fuwa is simply not impressed by Yukimura's basic rally (better than expected, but still MS level) which would imply all the G10 which by definition are not MS level ought to be able to at least match it. At any rate even in the original POT Yukimura isn't strong just because of his basic ability (moveable Hyakuren can defeat it) but because of his powerful specials, and he certainly didn't beat Fuwa without using special moves. Yet I'm pretty sure Yuki X 2 with specials completely sealed can still defeat Marui + Kite very comfortably, and if a G10 can't match Yuki with specials completely sealed they don't really belong there either. Note that Yukimura with special sealed would get utterly crushed by Ochi (Yuki most likely cannot return Mach Serve, so without specials he'll never win).
At any rate the whole Wonder Castle setup just doesn't make sense. It's stated as a defensive technique. We certainly don't see Marui score points with Wonder Castle. Given HS have an unconditional stamina advantage over MS they can simply just outlast Marui until he gets tired, since Kite can't do anything useful in the back court if they don't lob the ball. I guess you can say maybe it's a trap to bait Tohno into attacking and wasting energy except there's no indication Marui or Kite planned any of this.
If Tohno didn't accidentally throw his racket, it's possible he could've self-destructed on Wonder Castle since we can see using execution techs repeatedly tires him considerably. In fact given the consistent portrayal of G10's superior physical stats you'd have to assume execution techs do at least TPhantom level of self damage for him to get tired like that (Niou used 40+ in the tiebreaker alone, whle Tohno presumably used no more than 13 execution techs). I suppose in this case it'd play out favorably because his partner is, after all, waiting for him to self destruct but if your partner isn't trying to backstab you, he should point out just hit the ball back normally against a guy who can't possibly outlast your team.
---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------
Not to mention execution techs have a rather significant weakness in that all have to connect for the combo effect to hit. I just don't see Atobe or Niou having problem returning anything Marui can return, even with Wonder Castle, because Marui is simply not a top tier character. Atobe has an endurance of 5, so he can take some hits. Maybe Niou can't take as many hits, but he can just play in the back court and let Atobe deal with the stronger hits with Atobe Kingdom. Execution techs clearly can't be sustained for long as shown in Tohno's game.
Now if Kimijima isn't trying to purposely rig the game to get rid of his partner? Yeah their team would probably win, though we really don't know anything about Kimijima's full powers at this point.
Yukimura is no longer God-like, but see this, we have no idea what happened with Fuwa.
We have no idea how much effort Yuki was exerting since their match would have been in early stages when we saw.
You have nothing to suggest that Yuki needed Yips to win.
You have nothing to suggest Ochi can defeat Yukimura on Yukimura's service game. Yuki will likely keep his service game.
If you take away Yips from Yuki, are we taking Mental Pressure from Ochi?
You put down Kite and Yukimura but your reasoning is really weak.
First of all, if Sanada cannot score a point off of Yuki without BA, then Yukimura's basic rally level is still near the top.
the same rally level where Yuki thought he could have fun playing tennis.
Secondly, we have nothing to confirm Yukimura even lost a point. Fuwa praises Yukimura then says he is just MSlevel implying Fuwa can play even better than he was. So Fuwa must have been losing for him to imply he is going to step up a level.
Yukimura at this time still has a casual facial expression so honestly Yukimura could still reach the Top5.
At no point did we feel Fuwa was going to confidently take points either.
I already explained to you Yukimura is still extremely difficult to get points off even without Yips.
We do know Yuki has only ever been pushed into a corner in this series by Black Aura and nothing else.
So if you're still going to assume Fuwa was defeating Yuki based on nothing then you are assuming Fuwa > Relatively every MSer except 2.
Also, Fuwa was under the yips at that point, so you could argue he didn't even know what level the rally was even happening at.
Also, I believe Konomi improving the Yips hints towards Yukimura now aiming for long rallies so he can have quicker matches.
It's quite clear now that if Yukimura has a long rally from the very first point of the match, the opponent WILL get Yipped.
Its likely that Yuki aimed for Fuwa to get Yipped this time since he even tells Fuwa immediately he can relieve him of his other senses.
As for Kite, it's not about a reliable move. His defense is extremely good. He can simply outlast players in rallies.
SPoT has never been about reliable moves so you are looking about this the wrong way.
Akiba, Ban, Mitsuya, Fuwa, Mouri, Kimijima all top players who don't use special moves.