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Thread: Naruto 609 Discussion

  1. #361
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Sonia Khan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    He's trying to conquer the planet. Kakashi is an assassin, one of the best there has ever been, he should have killed him this makes no sense. He was ready to kill Sasuke I fail to see why Obito should be given any lee-way considering he is personally responsible for Minato and Kushina's deaths.
    Well Sasuke and Obito do not hold the same value in eyes of Kakashi (and one of the eyes is Obito's )

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonia Khan View Post
    Well Sasuke and Obito do not hold the same value in eyes of Kakashi (and one of the eyes is Obito's )
    but Rin does, right? yet we saw him killing Rin (gaining MS in the process) for reasons which i assume are good enough. in case of Obito, i think there is enough reason to kill him.
    Last edited by darkprince0521; November 16, 2012 at 06:46 AM.
    Naruto Forever


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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    The thing is, kakashi and gai can fight obito. In fact, obito right now isn't an issue to kakashi. And the kyubi can refuel kakashi and gai's chakra. Then hachibi/bee and naruto/kyubi will fight madara/juubi. And if kyubi is really serious on fighting the juubi, then we can see him fighting instead of naruto. And I think it's not yet a win for madara now that the juubi appeared. Because it's still a 50-50 if he can control it or not.
    Don't forget Obito still has the Rin'negan, and Mokuton on top of it.
    Gai is out cold, and Kakashi is effective against Obito only if he works with a partner.

    Kyuubi or Naruto in control doesn't change much except for skills such as giving chakra, since their chakra is melded, thus is always Kyuubi+Naruto.

    Of course we don't know if Madara can control the Juubi or not, its plausible that the Juubi is too much even for Madara, but do you see Madara out of the picture so quickly?
    I personally don't, but its also true that only the Juubi has a realistic chance to end him

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood


    I even stated that was not his max speed there. Thing is Naruto is in CM lvl 2 is still above Minato's base speed. A punch from Naruto in that mode is going to end up going faster then Minato's.
    Now i did not state Obito stoping Naruto with wood element is a feat of how he would own Naruto... I said if he can do that to Naruto then why use a bloody chain on Minato?
    Naruto can achive those speeds if he needs to, Shunshin no jutsu can be used as much as you whant as long as you can supply the chakra and lol gues who has a mountain of it? Again Kishi is having him not use it to have a fight.
    What you say goes not only for Naruto, but for every ninja in this manga ( again except Raikages ).
    Its how this manga is, you have ultra-fast characters that uses shunshin once in a while ( Naruto, Sasuke and Itachi above all ), others who don't use shunshin at all ( Nagato ) yet can fight without problems.

    And Obito doing that to Naruto isn't the same as doing it to Yondaime, since Yondaime, countrary to Naruto, can teleport

    Quote Quote:
    Yes he wanted to bind him and he decided to use a stupid chain and not wood element like what? Then you are telling me Obito belived that would work on Minato? Like WTF? Was he sleeping all the time Minato trained him or whent with him on missions?
    Thing is Kishi screwed up the moment he made him Obito... Madara making that mistake when going with informations from other sources makes sense but not Obito ffs...

    Also yes both moves are useless but that is not the point, the point is WHY use a chain when you have Mokuton and why try the chain move in the first place? What type of idiot is Obito?
    Obito's intention was to halt Yondaime the moment needed to teleport him, chains weren't his main weapon, Kamui was.
    And again using the chains or Mokuton is irrelevant since both are useless.
    Its like Naruto using an Oodama Rasengan instead a normal Rasengan against Edo Nagato, both would've been absorbed, but is Naruto stupid because he didn't use his strongest attack?

    Quote Quote:
    Did you see Naruto lose any of his chakra cloack when he got grabed? Like evne a little bit of it? Now considering inertia, the fact that Narut still was able to give him a head hit AND the fact that he broke it like nothing moments later AND the fact that part of it broke after Tobi was sent flying after the head hit and i can state its not really that effective on his chakra mode...
    Effective or not, doesn't change the fact that Mokuton is unbelievably effective against Bijuu chakras, as Madara's Wood dragon proved.
    See how Bee was immobilizated by it.
    Blame Naruto for being stronger than both jutsus if he's not captured

    Quote Quote:
    Because one would fight as effective as posible.Why trow an arm away when he could grab that guy with Wood Element and stab him to death? Why not shoot a huge Katon at him after grabing him with a wood element?
    Seriously why in all his bloody fights he did not use Mokuton if he had it up to curent chapters?

    Why would Tobi not use Mokuton on those 2 guys like he did on those foders when "saving" Rin and be done it with way faster and safer?

    Of course NOBODY in his right mind, expecialy a ninja would not handicap his own skills and cover his mouth so he can't shoot those OP Katons he showed (well it was only one but you get the picture).

    PS. I did read what ninja both said in the folowing posts. I do agree that is how it works, the real dimension and the other one share referance as he said but this changes nothing. Obito could end up getting killed even if its by CHANSE. He did not know what Danzo can do... What if he needed to go completly intangible? What if by chanse they noticed his body parts? Who in there right minds would expose themselfs like that? Those 2 could release a huge bug swarm inside there to try to make it out (find the exit) and hit Obito's parts by mistake... Seriously it makes no bloody sense.
    Then please tell me why would he use Mokuton instead of Kamui, when Kamui is clearly the better jutsu.

    As for the dimension, did you forget that Obito went in his own dimension soon after, to take Sasuke out?
    Considering neither Sasuke nor Karin saw anything. its safe to assume Obito teleported the 2 fodders elsewhere

    Quote Quote:
    Minato was tagged by a bloody chain. Just get him in a good position. Its posible. Also a kunai needs to be swinged and swinged far enough as that Katon is big enough to cover a huge area.
    Point is you don't know how a fight would go down and if you would end up needing a skill you have, nerfing yourself with NO GOOD REASON makes no sense.
    How he was tagged?
    He had no knowledge on Obito's jutsu and thus he slipped through him, the chains acted just like Mokuton, trying to bind him. Just like the chains, Mokuton would be useless since Yondaime would just use Hiraishin and escape.

    Quote Quote:
    Makes you wonder why they did NOT ATTACKED when Tobi ported after that eh? How did he defeated them after that when he can't use intangibility?
    No its a plot hole. Even curent chapters with Kakashi and how he put him in his own dimension and got himself injured badly (well he looks badly injured with all that blood but who knows).
    So you tell me. You are not a ninja but would you put X guy in your dimension if he can strike you any time you go intangible like it was showed with Naruto's clone and Kakashi's body?

    This entire way of fighting IS wrong.
    Is not wrong, because:
    -no ninja except Kakashi ( maybe Yondaime, if he can Hiraishin between dimensions ) can escape Kamui
    -as we saw, not every sucked up enemy ends in the same position
    -see ninjabot's explanation for the rest

    He teleported Kakashi because Kakashi was about to pass out, he didn't know, just like Naruto didn't, that Kyuubi could freely give chakra.
    Obito was outsmarted, for all intent and purpose Kakashi was supposed to be close to death

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  6. #364
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    You either have to assume Fuu/Torune...

    (A) were so stupid they wouldn't attack their enemy when they saw his body parts dangling like ripe fruit in front of them...
    (B) were instantly genjutsued by Obito who has never used that power on anyone else before or since (when Torune was facing the opposite direction to boot!)...
    (C) were dumped in a 'safe' area of the dimension so Obito could ignore them - again begging the question WHY has Obito never done this with anyone else before or since...
    lets just think about A, you are thrown into another dimension by scary dude, it seems like everything is dark and you are lucky to have floor under your feet.
    after some time you spot a body part materializing for few seconds, and you attack it? If you are fast and smart enough to conclude this is enemies body part and his major weakness, surely you are smart enough to know if you kill him, you are trapped in not so attractive dimension.

  7. #365
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    That's only because Kishi decided to retcon Rinnegan away from him. Had Tobi used Rinnegan constantly, he'd have done so much better. He wouldn't have needed to phase thanks to Shinra Tensei and ability to absorb chakra. Hell, nothing would have stopped Tobi from using Bansho Tenin and absorbing everyone's chakra. It's just plot that's stopping him from owning everyone.

    Pre-Rinnegan Tobi would probably lose against such combo though. Rinnegan Tobi in no way should lose at all.
    Even if he could, he can't stand up to all the Kages, Bee, Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and whoever else, he'd be overwhelmed.

    Not to mention, again, Obito isn't the most skilled ninja in the world, he never was. Hashirama's cells gave him a body that was fast and strong. His Sharigan gave him insight and his MS ability, and the Rinnegan would give him jutsu. He is still lacking in intelligence and skill.

    ---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonia Khan View Post
    Well Sasuke and Obito do not hold the same value in eyes of Kakashi (and one of the eyes is Obito's )
    This is irrelevant. Kakashi was responsible for both at one point as they were both his subordinates. Both of them have caused pain and suffering and only wish to cause more pain and suffering. Kakashi being the man he is, should have killed Obito for the greater good.

    Sacrificing one evil, twisted, and psychotic person for the fate of the whole world seems reasonable, even if he was your childhood friend. Kakashi cares about Naruto, Sakura, Kurenai, Shikamaru, Gai, etc does he not? Or does Obito's life mean more than all of theirs?
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  9. #366
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Sacrificing one evil, twisted, and psychotic person for the fate of the whole world seems reasonable, even if he was your childhood friend. Kakashi cares about Naruto, Sakura, Kurenai, Shikamaru, Gai, etc does he not? Or does Obito's life mean more than all of theirs?
    Obviously Kakashi couldn't defeat Sasuke and bring him to Konoha alive, otherwise he would surely do that.
    Kakashi obviously thinks Obito is easy target now that they figured out his weakness.
    He doesn't need to kill him to defeat him, and he needs him alive for so many reasons: Explanations, friends, Yamato, bijuu control, defeating Madara, etc...

    ---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    So you tell me. You are not a ninja but would you put X guy in your dimension if he can strike you any time you go intangible like it was showed with Naruto's clone and Kakashi's body?

    This entire way of fighting IS wrong.
    Could it be that Obito didnt know his intangibility makes his body tangible in another dimension until he was strike for the first time by kunai?

  10. #367
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post

    Not to mention, again, Obito isn't the most skilled ninja in the world, he never was. Hashirama's cells gave him a body that was fast and strong. His Sharigan gave him insight and his MS ability, and the Rinnegan would give him jutsu. He is still lacking in intelligence and skill.
    I agree with this. Without Hashirama's cells, I doubt that he could even activate MS. Since Kakashi can stand up to him fairly easy compared to how I imagined it, Obito doesn't stand a chance against Naruto. That's why, when they get rid of Juubi, Naruto will fight Madara while Kakashi and Gai Obito.

  11. #368
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by pera2 View Post
    Obviously Kakashi couldn't defeat Sasuke and bring him to Konoha alive, otherwise he would surely do that.
    Kakashi obviously thinks Obito is easy target now that they figured out his weakness.
    He doesn't need to kill him to defeat him, and he needs him alive for so many reasons: Explanations, friends, Yamato, bijuu control, defeating Madara, etc...
    Excuses upon excuses. It just never stops.
    Kakashi is a killer ninja similary to Minato so when it is needed of him to kill, he will kill. It's that simple. He did this to Kakuzu & he was about to kill Sasuke too until Naruto intervened. Even Naruto now understands that he will kill Sasuke if he has to.

    The fate of the entire planet of earth relies on Kakashi & co. Kakashi already had the killer intent to kill Tobi in order to stop his messed up plan of taking over the planet. That why he had been using one-shot kill moves on Tobi the last few chapters inspite him knowing his true identity. In this chapter, Kakashi had the perfect, easiest & greatest opportunity to end Tobi's pathetic butt yet he didn't.

    It wasn't because Kakashi wanted to convince Tobi so that he can get an "Explanations, friends, Yamato, bijuu control, defeating Madara, etc", Kakashi knew what is at stake.

    If Tobi kills anyone in the upcoming chapters, I'm gonna be pissed because Kakashi did a 180 for the sake of plot.

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  13. #369
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    idk if anyone noticed but kurama seems very layed back, it may just be his personality not to flip out and worry but hes acting very cool within this whole battle bee and hachibi are showing concern and a hint or two of worry but naruto and kurama seem cool as a pickle

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/11
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/13

    and naruto just seems confident as ever and being inflinching in his optimism

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/10

    i wonder do they have something up there sleves, maybe the nine names and whatever the other bijuu did to naruto will kick in, or they are just plain o stupid


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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    idk if anyone noticed but kurama seems very layed back, it may just be his personality not to flip out and worry but hes acting very cool within this whole battle bee and hachibi are showing concern and a hint or two of worry but naruto and kurama seem cool as a pickle

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/11
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/13

    and naruto just seems confident as ever and being inflinching in his optimism

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/86022516/10

    i wonder do they have something up there sleves, maybe the nine names and whatever the other bijuu did to naruto will kick in, or they are just plain o stupid

    Well, Kurama obviously put his complete trust in Naruto and considering the fact that Naruto didn't really get ANY injury since Kurama started cooperating tells us that he's powerful as all hell. His confidence and maturity are also something that describes his next level of power. We have yet to see their seriousness. You know they haven't given their all since Kurama looks bored just like Madara outside.

  15. #371
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    I even stated that was not his max speed there. Thing is Naruto is in CM lvl 2 is still above Minato's base speed. A punch from Naruto in that mode is going to end up going faster then Minato's.
    Now i did not state Obito stoping Naruto with wood element is a feat of how he would own Naruto... I said if he can do that to Naruto then why use a bloody chain on Minato?
    Naruto can achive those speeds if he needs to, Shunshin no jutsu can be used as much as you whant as long as you can supply the chakra and lol gues who has a mountain of it? Again Kishi is having him not use it to have a fight.

    Yes he wanted to bind him and he decided to use a stupid chain and not wood element like what? Then you are telling me Obito belived that would work on Minato? Like WTF? Was he sleeping all the time Minato trained him or whent with him on missions?
    Thing is Kishi screwed up the moment he made him Obito... Madara making that mistake when going with informations from other sources makes sense but not Obito ffs...

    Also yes both moves are useless but that is not the point, the point is WHY use a chain when you have Mokuton and why try the chain move in the first place? What type of idiot is Obito?
    To answer the question, the author didn't want to let the cat out of the bag that soon. I've said it time and time again, one of the things that actually hurt the manga wasn't that it was Obito, but that Kishimoto tried to desperately hold on to the "who is Tobi" secret longer than he probably should've. The Minato fight is one example. Obito got his ass kicked. And he got his ass kicked at a time where he obviously had the ability to use the mokuton. Could be that he knew Minato would have a counter to it, could be that he was actually somewhat cautious about concealing who he was to Minato in the event he failed (I think this option is highly unlikely, however). Also, maybe the mokuton wouldn't or couldn't work in that situation.

    The other thing is - I don't think Obito stated he wanted to kill Minato. And the way he fought Minato... he had the bombs on Naruto and the trap/trick, but he tried to warp him into that dimension. Why try to do that? Why not just use all of his power and fight him if he was really after revenge? I think Obito wanted more than just to kill Minato. Though I should caveat this by saying... again... this is a time in the manga that Kishimoto was holding onto the 'secret' of Tobi.

    ---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Maybe you're right. But still, kakashi right now is still can't believed that obito's still alive. He wants to know the truth on why obito had a connection to madara. Kakashi must already realized that he's somehow responsible for obito's conquering the world plan. He killed rin so he must want obito to learn the truth behind that incident. Or maybe, this is what kishi wants. He had some plan on obito and kakashi.
    IMO it's a part of the plot. It isn't that Kakashi couldn't kill him, but maybe we are supposed to believe that he still had a limited amount of chakra that he received from Kurama and had to reserve it to actaully teleport out of the dimension. There are a lot of convenient reasons for us readers to say why Kakashi didn't kill Obito at that moment, but I also think that something else is about to happen to Obito. Not necessarily that he'll do some incredibly cool jutsu - we may have seen most if not all of the tricks in his repertoire already. But with the 10 tails fully coming back like this and Madara still around... think of the possibilities.

    A: Madara as an ET double-crosses Obito. Maybe the 10 tails cannot be the hosted by an ET, so Madara goes ahead, maybe using a hax version of Orochimaru's soul transferring jutsu, and takes over Obito's body.

    How Convenient! LOL Madara, being mortal, can then be killed.

    B: Obito has some kind of eff'd up change of heart. Who knows how, why or for what outcome...

    C: Obito is off'd in a much more epic fashion than being raikir'd in his own dimension.

    I think there's still more to know about Rin and what happened but I'm not at all surprised that Kakashi didn't kill him back then. Because not a lot of time even passed, and Kakashi probably had little time to react at all (at first). The second shot... anyone's guess. I thought it was great. Body shots. lol

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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by jalix View Post
    To answer the question, the author didn't want to let the cat out of the bag that soon. I've said it time and time again, one of the things that actually hurt the manga wasn't that it was Obito, but that Kishimoto tried to desperately hold on to the "who is Tobi" secret longer than he probably should've. The Minato fight is one example. Obito got his ass kicked. And he got his ass kicked at a time where he obviously had the ability to use the mokuton. Could be that he knew Minato would have a counter to it, could be that he was actually somewhat cautious about concealing who he was to Minato in the event he failed (I think this option is highly unlikely, however). Also, maybe the mokuton wouldn't or couldn't work in that situation.

    The other thing is - I don't think Obito stated he wanted to kill Minato. And the way he fought Minato... he had the bombs on Naruto and the trap/trick, but he tried to warp him into that dimension. Why try to do that? Why not just use all of his power and fight him if he was really after revenge? I think Obito wanted more than just to kill Minato. Though I should caveat this by saying... again... this is a time in the manga that Kishimoto was holding onto the 'secret' of Tobi.

    ---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------



    IMO it's a part of the plot. It isn't that Kakashi couldn't kill him, but maybe we are supposed to believe that he still had a limited amount of chakra that he received from Kurama and had to reserve it to actaully teleport out of the dimension. There are a lot of convenient reasons for us readers to say why Kakashi didn't kill Obito at that moment, but I also think that something else is about to happen to Obito. Not necessarily that he'll do some incredibly cool jutsu - we may have seen most if not all of the tricks in his repertoire already. But with the 10 tails fully coming back like this and Madara still around... think of the possibilities.

    A: Madara as an ET double-crosses Obito. Maybe the 10 tails cannot be the hosted by an ET, so Madara goes ahead, maybe using a hax version of Orochimaru's soul transferring jutsu, and takes over Obito's body.

    How Convenient! LOL Madara, being mortal, can then be killed.

    B: Obito has some kind of eff'd up change of heart. Who knows how, why or for what outcome...

    C: Obito is off'd in a much more epic fashion than being raikir'd in his own dimension.

    I think there's still more to know about Rin and what happened but I'm not at all surprised that Kakashi didn't kill him back then. Because not a lot of time even passed, and Kakashi probably had little time to react at all (at first). The second shot... anyone's guess. I thought it was great. Body shots. lol
    I trust Kurama, the 1000s of years old chakra monster's judgement, "Yup, he can now use Kumui to go in and out whenever he wants". According to Kurama, chakra war far from the problem, in fact Kakashi is likely to waste even more chakra as a result of not ending Tobi's (who wants to end the planet) life. If chakra was the problem, the statement Kurama made wouldn't have existed in such context. If chakra was a problem Kakashi could still stab Tobi with a kunai. ANYTHING BUT A SIMPLE PUNCH DAMN IT LOL

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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto2011 View Post
    i wonder do they have something up there sleves, maybe the nine names and whatever the other bijuu did to naruto will kick in, or they are just plain o stupid
    I wonder if the power of the nine names will split the Juubi back into the 9 bijuu with Hachibi and Kyuubi reabsorbing the portions of the chakra used to complete it.

    Oh, and since Ginkaku and Kinkaku ate Kyuubi chakra before Minato split the Kyuubi's chakra, does that mean Kurama will be whole again when he reabsorbs the 9 tails chakra from the Juubi?
    I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    Quote Quote:
    does that mean Kurama will be whole again when he reabsorbs the 9 tails chakra from the Juubi?
    Probably not because half of his chakra is still in the belly of the death god.
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

  19. #375
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 609 Discussion/ 610 Prediction

    One thing I always wondered is... if the bijuu return from the dead after a while and reach their full strength again everytime they're killed, what's to say Kurama didn't just recover his full chakra amount as time went on? I mean, it'd explain why the seal began to get weaker. He wasn't killed, but recovering chakra should have been as simple as chilling for a while.

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