Bleach 516 Discussion

[DarkBankai]

in the words of gene hackman- you dont put on a condom unless your going to @#$%@#$ <-- well you know.

SO-

Isshin learned the FGT. Isshin used the FGT. there would be no reason to learn a technique like that unless he was required to use it.
His knowledge and as yet undescribed use of it, allowed him to train ichigo on how to enter his inner world in bankai state, and thereby aquire it from Tensa.

I cannot support any assertion that he learned FGT and did not use it, it makes no sense.

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

Some food for thought.

Hikifune got promoted to Squad 0. That means, there was vacancy, right? But there wasn't any major incident, that would make a RG die. Isshin, anyone?

About their strength. I think we'll get some SS vs RG friendly fight, something like a spar between Shunsui and that beatiful woman (he LOVES women, doesn't he? If she is Hikifune and they know each other...) to get comparison.

VERY GOOD OBSERVATION!!! there may have indeed been a vacancy.
I like this isshin idea,

Or-

If you notice the insignia- It has only 4 markings on it, yet there are 5 zero members. perhaps an incident caused them to add another person among thier ranks- possibly to preserve a power ratio that we are as yet - unaware of .

But I do like the isshin theory-

[dex]

dex
So you said I was speculating, when I said Isshin was a Shinigami and a Shinigami Captain, while the fact that he is a pure Shinigami is quite obvious, but now you are clearly speculating about the fact that Isshin used FGT. I don't deny the fact that he learned it. But to learn and to use is a way different thing. No matter how you look at it.

shinigami ,captain and captain class are different...all captains and captains class are shinigami...but not all captain class shinigami are captains...and why would isshin learn FGT if he does not want to use it...this does not make sense...

And you are wrong about quiting being Shinigami as Isshin did, using Urahara's Gigai and Ichigo loosing his Shinigami powers using FGT. If you use FGT you loose Shinigami powers and you don't have options, it's not a voluntear act. Ichigo had to use it.

so you believe that isshin did not had any reason to use it ? and about quit being a shinigami it could very well be a way of saying thoughts ...could mean he didn't even try to get his powers back after he lost them once...coz he was happy with his family and didn't need shinigami powers anymore...

Also Ichigo has a human body, so if he looses his powers, he will go back to become a normal human, while Isshin is Shinigami, so by using FGT he would loose his powers and dissapear.

if isshin was just a shinigami soul and used FGT what would remain of him ? a normal soul...he won't disappear...not every soul is a shinigami...he would just have to settle in rukongai rather than inside ss(if he was a memebr of ss) :P

It's obvious that Isshin used Urahara's Gigai to live peaceful life to live with his wife and later his kids, that's why Urahara feared that he might blame him for possible decreasing of Isshin's power. But it's obvious that Isshin's power didn't decrease. It wasn't an act on Isshin's part. He prooved it in a fight against Aizen...

this all is your speculation...which is not proved yet...you can strongly support it but then its not a proven fact until we are enlightened by Mr.Kubo himself...

kkck
Thanks. So my point still stands. That for Vaizards or Isshin is crucial to use Gigai in order to interact with normal people.

you just assuming that isshin also uses gigai...arent ya ? anyways for every spirit their needs to be a medium to interact with normal people...so its obvious atleast for vaizards...

@dex, maybe he belonged to the royal guards,and that's why they don't know him very well. although the reason may be another one,because the fact SS didn't recognize ichigo as isshin's relative makes me wonder of his role. yet,the thought of naruto comes to my mind : he was minato's son,and had the 4th hokage's wife's surname,but noone noticed that... I'm terrified by the possibility that kubo trolls in the same way ...

i hope he does not pull naruto or yu yu hakusho here...the whole not recognizing kurosakis thing only made me think that they mite not be related to ss directly...

I don't know if anyone raised this before (I haven't had the chance to read through all 27 pages of posts...) but I find it fascinating that the 5 Squad Zero members have a combined power greater than the whole Gotei 13 put together. What I would be interested in finding out is whether the Gotei 13 assumption included Yamamoto or it didn't, and if it also did include Ichigo as well.

g13 includes all 13 squads ...so yes yamaji included...
ichigo is not considered as part of g13

[DarkBankai]

Orihime's powers and how they work are shady sometimes. As Aizen said, her powers can reject events. Her powers fall into realms of God. To be honest, they confuse the heck out of me. We have seen her bringing dead back to life. I am talking about Menoly. May be it was a reason Yama's body was not found. May be they blew into nothingness or took it with them.

Your post just gave me an idea- Since Bach stole CC bankai- then killed him- does this mean that Bach can raise CC from the dead and have him fight?? What if CC and ichigo are in for a battle down the road!!! that would be EPIC

[mattiaildivino]

Some food for thought.

Hikifune got promoted to Squad 0. That means, there was vacancy, right? But there wasn't any major incident, that would make a RG die. Isshin, anyone?

About their strength. I think we'll get some SS vs RG friendly fight, something like a spar between Shunsui and that beatiful woman (he LOVES women, doesn't he? If she is Hikifune and they know each other...) to get comparison.

they won't fight. the vandenreich might come back whenever they want,as far as we know... weakening kyoraku and a RG would just make things worse. they should wait for orihime's arrival to be healed,everyone.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

s
i hope he does not pull naruto or yu yu hakusho here...the whole not recognizing kurosakis thing only made me think that they mite not be related to ss directly...

that's why I fear that

[S-H-I-G-U-R-E]

Your post just gave me an idea- Since Bach stole CC bankai- then killed him- does this mean that Bach can raise CC from the dead and have him fight?? What if CC and ichigo are in for a battle down the road!!! that would be EPIC

No. That would be LAME.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

dex

shinigami ,captain and captain class are different...all captains and captains class are shinigami...but not all captain class shinigami are captains...and why would isshin learn FGT if he does not want to use it...this does not make sense...

Ok, why learn Shikai or Bankai? The same answer is here - to grow a deeper bond with your Zan. You don't always need to use all you have. The same way Isshin showed his power against Aizen in their one on one fight. He didn't even use Shikai, not even talking about Bankai, so by your logic, why didn't he use it if he learned them? It's obvious - because he didn't need to.

so you believe that isshin did not had any reason to use it ? and about quit being a shinigami it could very well be a way of saying thoughts ...could mean he didn't even try to get his powers back after he lost them once...coz he was happy with his family and didn't need shinigami powers anymore...

Of course. For now, until we know that he used it - he didn't use it. It's a simple rule of logic. To learn about something and to use it - that's absolutely different things. It is stated that he voluntearly quited being Shinigami, not that he lost his powers.

if isshin was just a shinigami soul and used FGT what would remain of him ? a normal soul...he won't disappear...not every soul is a shinigami...he would just have to settle in rukongai rather than inside ss(if he was a memebr of ss) :P

You are assuming it again... First - normal soul can't get in or out of SS without a help of Shinigami. It's basics. Even Ichigo's friends had to rely on Urahara's help to do it and they had to convert themselves in spiritual forms to get their via Senkaimon...

this all is your speculation...which is not proved yet...you can strongly support it but then its not a proven fact until we are enlightened by Mr.Kubo himself...

So you post your speculations about FGT and say that it's obvious and then tend to say that what I presented with the actual words of Urahara and Isshin from manga are my speculations? Ok. Let's not argue more, because I doubt we are going to get anywhere. If you even think that when I state that Isshin being a Shinigami and Shinigami Captain is my speculations, then why should we continue argueing?

you just assuming that isshin also uses gigai...arent ya ? anyways for every spirit their needs to be a medium to interact with normal people...so its obvious atleast for vaizards...

You know, it's like maths... if a normal person can't see a Spiritual Being like Shinigami or Hollow, then to interact with them such being has to use Gigai... The same goes for Vaizards and Isshin as well. Don't you think it's logical?

[Rikudou King]

Seems like Royal Dimension is not another dimension, but somewhere freakin' high in SS.

Could be both, a different dimension situated high above Soul Society.

[DarkBankai]

Could be both, a different dimension situated high above Soul Society.

Ive always thought that the royal dimension was inside the moon. Like final fantasy II

---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 PM ----------

No. That would be LAME.

No that would be awesome- the CC could talk shit and really rip into ichigo- I think the idea while unlikely has potential.

so -
dont hate. lol.

[zerocooldx]

That's not technically true. I understand what you are saying but I think it is more that the writer merely didn't want to showcase their bankais at the time.

Well good luck finding ANY manga based evidence to support that. The fact of the matter is that it came down to Yama getting ready to sacrifice himself and all of the other Captains/Vizards except Unohana, Byakuya, Zaraki, and Mayuri to kill Aizen. I'm fairy certain that if any of their Bankai could have defeated Aizen they would have gone that route instead of the route of saying lets all just sacrifice ourselves for the hell of it. Not to mention that it was painfully obvious that anyone under KS was done for regardless of how strong their power was. Aizen even admitted Yama was stronger, but so what?

We all know that a straight up battle of raw power vs. raw power wasn't ever going to happen because Aizen had KS and to top it all off he himself never uttered the word Bankai. Aizen is living proof the having more raw power then someone doesn't guarantee you victory at all. Hence the reason i think why the Zero Division may fall into a similar category as Aizen in terms of possessing a combination of power + unique abilities and why Kyoraku stated their combined power surpassed that of the Gotei 13. We saw one guy take them all down, so five being able to do it isn't a stretch at all.

[lawlett-kun]

So the Royal palace is inside SS within a separate dimension? cool. So who's protecting the Soul King if the Zero Squad members are not there.....

Squad -1

[cracker]

@ Jorge

Isshin is likely in permanent release state like Ichigo. He used Getsuga Tenshou against Aizen. So obviously he was in at least shikai...

[Zehahaha]

@ Jorge

Isshin is likely in permanent release state like Ichigo. He used Getsuga Tenshou against Aizen. So obviously he was in at least shikai...

Ichigo used GT before being able to unlock his Shikai against the Gillian at Karakura town, although he used inconsciously

[cracker]

He shouted Getsuga Tenshou -___-

[Zehahaha]

He shouted Getsuga Tenshou -___-

So what ? Again, we've seen Ichigo using GT without shouting the name three times : Against the Menos, against Urahara and against Renji, he only learned the name later on when he was training for his Bankai (and it was Ichigo himself who said that he was using it without knowing the name, and using inconsciously)

[cracker]

What does Ichigo using a technique subconsciously have to do with Isshin actively using Getsuga Tenshou? The mere fact that he shouted it out let you knew that he was choose to use and as a result had to be in at least shikai...

The Menos wasn't attacked by GT...he wasn't even using his own shinigami powers at that time.