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Thread: Bleach 516 Discussion

  1. #391
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    dex
    You are wrong. That's not speculation. It's a recollection of what is stated in manga or some interviews from Kubo. There are actually some links for different cases. It's quite a credible info. The same way as One Piece wikia.

    How come it was never mentioned that Isshin was using Gigai? Urahara even stated that he was sorry and he didn't want to be blamed if Isshin's power degraded. Thus it was obvious that if Urahara asked how Isshin felt to be in a Shinigami form again, then he was in Urahara's Gigai before...

    About Gigai... Vaizards also were never mentioned to use Gigais, but they still seem to use them as every Shinigami in their Shinigami form seem to wear Shukahusho...

    Well, it's obvious that during the reign of previous 29 Captain Commanders there was a diffirent military structure in SS.

  2. #392
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by spunge View Post
    You are the one who needs to do the reading. It has been made clear that Orihime's ability is not to heal, it is to reject events (one does not simply heal a dead being as evidenced by the resurrection of Menoly). The rejection of the event means it would not have happened and his bankai would be in its previous state.

    As we all know, reiatsu is like candy, something you can easily give away (like on Halloween). Just shove it in a sword and share.

    Furthermore, my previous post was sardonic as my diction and my ridiculous suggestion to just simply fix the entire Bleachverse reveal. Regardless it is still a possibility, albeit a stretch based on what we already know about Bleach (rejection of the loss of Yamamoto's arm as suggested by Bach).
    I feel that orihime cannot be used to fix ichigos bankai- If she rejected it, and it did indeed revert to the state before it was broken, that serves no real purpose at which point it could easily be broken again- Ichigo needs to find a way to reforge his zanpaktou- thereby making it stronger, perhaps revealing more about the nature of a zanpaktou and a shinigami-

    in the words of isshin- he needs to tread on millenia as yet untouched.- the only way for ichigo to repair / reforge/ his zanpaktou is for him to enter his inner world and reconcile with zangetsu, -- This could be good, because his new zanpaktou, might indeed be forged not only with zangetsu, but also with the other energies from the other captiains. If this ends up happening, Ichigo would be immune from all the stolen bankais, as he is a part of those bankais, and from the dangai training and his new reforged state- He would accept that power and it would be unable to hurt him.

    I am very excited by this possibilty, and hope the story takes that turn. Surely it is speculation, but it could happen.

  3. #393
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, it's obvious that during the reign of previous 29 Captain Commanders there was a diffirent military structure in SS.
    ahhh i get it...well actually here we are talking about the system...g13 system came into exitence 1000 years back which was founded by yamaji...but then what do we call it before 1000 years ? what i was pointing out is that the organization whatever we call it g13 or just soul society defence force existed long time before yamaji became its cc...yamaji just modified its structure when he became cc...

    Quote Quote:
    How come it was never mentioned that Isshin was using Gigai? Urahara even stated that he was sorry and he didn't want to be blamed if Isshin's power degraded. Thus it was obvious that if Urahara asked how Isshin felt to be in a Shinigami form again, then he was in Urahara's Gigai before...
    it could very well mean that isshin used FGT and lost his powers...just like ichigo his power must have degraded when he got back his shinigami self...

    Quote Quote:
    About Gigai... Vaizards also were never mentioned to use Gigais, but they still seem to use them as every Shinigami in their Shinigami form seem to wear Shukahusho...
    vaizards souls were kind of reconstructed with help of hougyoku...when rukia used gigai she faced problems... vaizards literally died before urahara fixed them...their cases were totally different...

    Quote Quote:
    That's not speculation. It's a recollection of what is stated in manga or some interviews from Kubo. There are actually some links for different cases. It's quite a credible info. The same way as One Piece wikia.
    wiki people sometimes do cross the line of facts and go into realms of personal views...afterall its been made and edited by the people for the people...

  4. #394
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by dex View Post
    hiyori said that hikifune was better than urhara due his clumsiness...and hiyori and hikifune were like daughter and mother...so obviously she would hate urahara in the beginning...this does not mean hiyori stated that hikifune is "cute" which you stated her to be...

    secondly isshin did not leave ss 20 years ago...he stopped being shinigami 20 yrs back(after his wife died)...its a possibility that he was just a substitute shinigami like ichigo...or he became shinigami under some special circumstances like ichigo only...i know it was said that ginjo was the first substitute shinigami but this was told by hitsugaya and he is not too old to know everything...furthermore ginjo knew about isshins past which makes me believ that he could be like ichigo and ginjo...ginjo also pointed out that shinigami human hybrids have been there before too...

    about isshin being a member of RG or SS i don't think a human could fit in that role since it would give rise to many weird possibilities...like if isshin was a soul so his body is a gigai..so could gigai reproduce ?? the only thing fits here is isshin being a human/shinigami and masaki being human/quincy making ichigo shinigami/quincy/human...still not sure what kubo might pull out of his magic box...
    ok,I give up for what concerns rikio hikifune,especially because kubo will troll us making her Fatty.
    but nope,isshin couldn't be a substitute shinigami,as even ukitake knew about ginjo being the only one. not to mention that they would have remembered about ichigo's surname,if isshin had already been a shinigami. and you are wrong,he didn't stop being shinigami when masaki died,especially as ichigo is just 15,and isshin stopped being a shinigami before his son was born.

    ---------- Post added at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Isshin was obviously a captain at some point, otherwise he wouldn't have a part of captain's haori on him when fighting. Sometimes the answer is just simple.
    that's exactly what I was trying to explain ,I don't know why others do not understand .

  5. #395
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    Right before Ichigo and friends tried to enter the Seireitei, the wall came slamming down. Then Ichigo had to fight Jidanbou, who, after being defeated, lifted up part of the wall to let Ichigo and friends through.

    Of course, that's when Gin showed up and Shinsou'd everyone, stopping them from progressing. Fun times.
    Thanks Exodi!

    So what is the purpose of that wall then? From the chapter, it seems as if that wall is meant to protect the Royal Dimmension. If so, what is it doing in SS?....maybe i need to read again?

    ---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    But Aizen kind of did defeat all of the Gotei 13 including Yama. I mean if any of them believed that their Bankai could defeat Aizen then they would have used it. The point is that Aizen couldn't be defeated with just raw power, Ichigo not included obviously. The Royal Guard could be Shinigami that also fall into that category. They all may posses very unique abilities that can't be overcome through sheer power alone. They gotta be special in someway right?
    That's not technically true. I understand what you are saying but I think it is more that the writer merely didn't want to showcase their bankais at the time.

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  7. #396
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    dex
    Quote Quote:
    it could very well mean that isshin used FGT and lost his powers...just like ichigo his power must have degraded when he got back his shinigami self...
    No, nothing suggests that Isshin used Final Getsuga Tenshou. He knows how to use it, but he never stated that he performed it. The only thing we know that he abandoned his Shinigami existense, so he voluntearly quited being Shinigami, while, when use use FGT you don't have any option, you just loose your powers. Also Isshin himself states that his power hadn't dicreased in any way.

    Quote Quote:
    vaizards souls were kind of reconstructed with help of hougyoku...when rukia used gigai she faced problems... vaizards literally died before urahara fixed them...their cases were totally different...
    Their case isn't different in any way. Both Isshin and Vaizards were already dead, because they were souls, so no matter what to cooperate with normal humans and live in Human World they have to use Gigai.

    Quote Quote:
    wiki people sometimes do cross the line of facts and go into realms of personal views...afterall its been made and edited by the people for the people...
    Well, I won't argue with you on it, but I've never seen the same One Piece or Bleach wiki beinbg wrong about the facts presented in actual manga.

    Raizen
    I have a theory that Royal Palace is somewhere above Seiretei... Especially since Zero Squad came from above with their transport.

    zerocooldx
    It was actually stated in some inteview. Kubo said that Shunsui would have defeated Aizen with his Bankai, but it was Ichigo's work to take down Aizen.
    Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; November 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM.

  8. #397
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Thanks Exodi!

    So what is the purpose of that wall then? From the chapter, it seems as if that wall is meant to protect the Royal Dimmension. If so, what is it doing in SS?....maybe i need to read again?

    ---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------




    That's not technically true. I understand what you are saying but I think it is more that the writer merely didn't want to showcase their bankais at the time.
    Seems like Royal Dimension is not another dimension, but somewhere freakin' high in SS.

  9. #398
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    ok,I give up for what concerns rikio hikifune,especially because kubo will troll us making her Fatty.
    lol why does a hottie have to be motherly figure ...
    Quote Quote:
    but nope,isshin couldn't be a substitute shinigami,as even ukitake knew about ginjo being the only one. not to mention that they would have remembered about ichigo's surname,if isshin had already been a shinigami. and you are wrong,he didn't stop being shinigami when masaki died,especially as ichigo is just 15,and isshin stopped being a shinigami before his son was born.
    now that you mention it...it doesnt seem like he did stop being shinigami after masaki death...my mistake...thx for that... so it was 20 years back ...not coz his wife died...
    explanation i can come up with is that isshin lost his powers 20 yrs back using FGT... when masaki was attacked he was normal and powerless and thus he regrets not saving her that night...
    my point here is that isshin could not entirely belong to SS...he could be someone who got powers from somewhere else...i dont remember ukitake metioning that only ginjo and ichigo were substitue shinigamis...it was hitsugaya who said it...or maybe he was not a substitue shinigami but got his shinigami powers with help from someone...
    like ichigo he was just a normal human who got shinigami powers and married a normal human who had quincy powers...this can also explain why his surname is not known in soul society... the whole not knowing kurosaki surname in soul society makes me think that he might not be directly related to SS...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    dex

    No, nothing suggests that Isshin used Final Getsuga Tenshou. He knows how to use it, but he never stated that he performed it. The only thing we know that he abandoned his Shinigami existense, so he voluntearly quited being Shinigami, while, when use use FGT you don't have any option, you just loose your powers. Also Isshin himself states that his power hadn't dicreased in any way.
    he used FGT coz when he tells ichigo that his zan will be aggressive this time (when he will learn FGT) just like my Engetsu was...this proves that even he tried learning FGT in the past...voluntarily quitting is equal to volutarily firing FGT...ichgo also abandoned his shinigami exitence after fully knowing the outcome of using FGT...
    the talk about isshins powers is jst a normal talk...like if someone asks ichigo if lately his powers has decreased he would politely say nah not much...
    Quote Quote:
    Their case isn't different in any way. Both Isshin and Vaizards were already dead, because they were souls, so no matter what to cooperate with normal humans and live in Human World they have to use Gigai.
    then what about rukia having problems with her gigai ? and other shinigamis who use gigai find their powers lowered...
    Last edited by dex; November 15, 2012 at 11:58 AM.

  10. #399
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Seems like Royal Dimension is not another dimension, but somewhere freakin' high in SS.
    Maybe it's like Soul Society's heaven. God (the Soul King) lives up there, guarded by his archangels/royal guards.
    If so, then what if an archangel turns out to be a traitor, like Lucifer.


    But anyway Im gonna guess Ichigo will learn to gather reishi like a Quincy, and this with his shinigami reiatsu will repair the sword and make it even more stronger.
    In other words, he'll learn to regenerate his powers by drawing reishi, becoming more of a powerhouse.
    Just a guess.

  11. #400
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    dex
    You are wrong. That's not speculation. It's a recollection of what is stated in manga or some interviews from Kubo. There are actually some links for different cases. It's quite a credible info. The same way as One Piece wikia.

    How come it was never mentioned that Isshin was using Gigai? Urahara even stated that he was sorry and he didn't want to be blamed if Isshin's power degraded. Thus it was obvious that if Urahara asked how Isshin felt to be in a Shinigami form again, then he was in Urahara's Gigai before...

    About Gigai... Vaizards also were never mentioned to use Gigais, but they still seem to use them as every Shinigami in their Shinigami form seem to wear Shukahusho...

    Well, it's obvious that during the reign of previous 29 Captain Commanders there was a diffirent military structure in SS.
    The vizards were given gigai by uraraha at the end of TBPA. After yoruichi took him away from the chamber 46 he said he was going to take some time to make gigai for everyone and then they would deal with the situation at their own pace.

    I am pretty sure that it has never been stated how many CC there have been though. I recall that a number was given during the fight against aizen however that turned out to be a mistranslation. I do agree in that the military force of SS simply used to have a different structure and leadership which would imply yamamoto simply started the squads as they are today.

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  13. #401
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    dex
    Quote Quote:
    he used FGT coz when he tells ichigo that his zan will be aggressive this time (when he will learn FGT) just like my Engetsu was...this proves that even he tried learning FGT in the past...voluntarily quitting is equal to volutarily firing FGT...ichgo also abandoned his shinigami exitence after fully knowing the outcome of using FGT...
    the talk about isshins powers is jst a normal talk...like if someone asks ichigo if lately his powers has decreased he would politely say nah not much...
    So you said I was speculating, when I said Isshin was a Shinigami and a Shinigami Captain, while the fact that he is a pure Shinigami is quite obvious, but now you are clearly speculating about the fact that Isshin used FGT. I don't deny the fact that he learned it. But to learn and to use is a way different thing. No matter how you look at it.
    And you are wrong about quiting being Shinigami as Isshin did, using Urahara's Gigai and Ichigo loosing his Shinigami powers using FGT. If you use FGT you loose Shinigami powers and you don't have options, it's not a voluntear act. Ichigo had to use it.
    Also Ichigo has a human body, so if he looses his powers, he will go back to become a normal human, while Isshin is Shinigami, so by using FGT he would loose his powers and dissapear.
    It's obvious that Isshin used Urahara's Gigai to live peaceful life to live with his wife and later his kids, that's why Urahara feared that he might blame him for possible decreasing of Isshin's power. But it's obvious that Isshin's power didn't decrease. It wasn't an act on Isshin's part. He prooved it in a fight against Aizen...

    Quote Quote:
    then what about rukia having problems with her gigai ? and other shinigamis who use gigai find their powers lowered...
    Her Gigai was a bit different. Also other Shinigamis apart from Rukia didn't have any problems, so I don't get your point.

    kkck
    Thanks. So my point still stands. That for Vaizards or Isshin is crucial to use Gigai in order to interact with normal people.
    Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; November 15, 2012 at 12:15 PM.

  14. #402
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    @dex, maybe he belonged to the royal guards,and that's why they don't know him very well. although the reason may be another one,because the fact SS didn't recognize ichigo as isshin's relative makes me wonder of his role. yet,the thought of naruto comes to my mind : he was minato's son,and had the 4th hokage's wife's surname,but noone noticed that... I'm terrified by the possibility that kubo trolls in the same way ...

  15. #403
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted hatsuharupeace's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    I don't know if anyone raised this before (I haven't had the chance to read through all 27 pages of posts...) but I find it fascinating that the 5 Squad Zero members have a combined power greater than the whole Gotei 13 put together. What I would be interested in finding out is whether the Gotei 13 assumption included Yamamoto or it didn't, and if it also did include Ichigo as well.

    As for the way SS ran before, and the fact that Ichigo's father was once a shinigami, would it be plausible to assume that he was once one of the "generals" alongside Yamamoto and those 5 seen in the last page of the current chapter, and that his captain's badge came from working in the Gotei and helping to establish it?

  16. #404
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by hatsuharupeace View Post
    I don't know if anyone raised this before (I haven't had the chance to read through all 27 pages of posts...) but I find it fascinating that the 5 Squad Zero members have a combined power greater than the whole Gotei 13 put together. What I would be interested in finding out is whether the Gotei 13 assumption included Yamamoto or it didn't, and if it also did include Ichigo as well.

    As for the way SS ran before, and the fact that Ichigo's father was once a shinigami, would it be plausible to assume that he was once one of the "generals" alongside Yamamoto and those 5 seen in the last page of the current chapter, and that his captain's badge came from working in the Gotei and helping to establish it?
    that's exactly what I wonder as well! yamamoto was overwhelming! I can't believe he is included in that statement. well,don't worry,ichigo doesn't belong to the gotei 13,though

  17. #405
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    Re: Bleach 516 Discussion / 517 Predictions

    Some food for thought.

    Hikifune got promoted to Squad 0. That means, there was vacancy, right? But there wasn't any major incident, that would make a RG die. Isshin, anyone?

    About their strength. I think we'll get some SS vs RG friendly fight, something like a spar between Shunsui and that beatiful woman (he LOVES women, doesn't he? If she is Hikifune and they know each other...) to get comparison.

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