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Thread: Hold All The Crazy Inside

  1. #391
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ancy's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?
    "Take off your mask
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    The freak in me!
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  2. #392
    I hate shovel 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Doraku's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?
    I'm not really sure about it.. but cutting the neck of an animal might disconnects the blood flow into the nerve of the brain which is responsible for pain, so I can say that the reason as a "more humane" way to end animals life is correct.

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  4. #393
    Halfway 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Wow another serious discussion - I haven't seen one of these kinds in regards to religious rituals.
    I presume the cutting of the throat was dictated by 'god' as the prefered way to prepare the animal.
    It may have some heath significance.


    @ Gary - Jesus man you're even familiar with the Talmud - I haven't gone that far ahead.
    Gary-pieda was a real thing after all.... ^^


  5. #394
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?
    Why are they astonishing though? Just look at the geography and other similarities the faiths have.

    I don't know the answer to that actually, but it seems reasonable that it's related to that. For instance, both forbid consumption of carrion or animals that aren't killed by human hands. The manner of death being a human ensures the reason for the death not being related to disease as well.

    ---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    @ Gary - Jesus man you're even familiar with the Talmud - I haven't gone that far ahead.
    Gary-pieda was a real thing after all.... ^^
    I chose to study it as project for religious studies, as well as other reading I've done. I was raised Catholic, which has it's own dietary "laws"...well more suggestion in modern times and the topic interested me.

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  7. #395
    Halfway 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post

    I chose to study it as project for religious studies, as well as other reading I've done. I was raised Catholic, which has it's own dietary "laws"...well more suggestion in modern times and the topic interested me.
    I took an interest to this when I was younger and researched a bit - but not about the dietary aspects per-se but about the religious one. Finding god and all that shnazz.
    I'd like to weigh in on the dietary discussion aspects more heavily but - its a bit out of my scope and what I remember is few in details.

    I do like your points on the similarities and the regions as well as the rest of the seems logical / accurate / makes sense in accordance to that time period.

    ---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Doraku View Post
    I'm not really sure about it.. but cutting the neck of an animal might disconnects the blood flow into the nerve of the brain which is responsible for pain, so I can say that the reason as a "more humane" way to end animals life is correct.
    I think this has some truth in it but I dont remember too much.


  8. #396
    GOT MILLKKK? 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?
    No, it's simply to drain the animal of blood. It's not a humane death at all as the animal dies from drowning in its own blood.
    Don't. Be. A. Steph.

  9. #397
    Halfway 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    No, it's simply to drain the animal of blood. It's not a humane death at all as the animal dies from drowning in its own blood.

    Im sure there was health aspect to this as well... but my memory is slacking like form 10 years ago.


  10. #398
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    I don't know. I can only assume they want a "clean death" in the sense that no other chemicals like from a tranquilizer are within the animal, or a bullet for that matter. Anycase it's a rather cruel death.
    Don't. Be. A. Steph.

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  12. #399
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ancy's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Why are they astonishing though? Just look at the geography and other similarities the faiths have.
    Geography could be an influential factor, but it's not the main reason. Christianity as a faith/religion started there and expanded. However, the details regarding slaughter were not taken over by Christian practitioners. Therefore, I assume that slaughtering practices, although have a ground on religious doctrine, are merely preserved though traditions. To exemplify, I'll give you the following situation: strict Judaism (Kite, correct me if I'm wrong) strictly limits travel during Sabbath. Highly religious Jews even count the number of steps they take. However, the Tanakh, which is canon, does not specify that travel should be limited. It says that a man should avoid doing unnecessary work. I can provide other examples from Islam too (traditions), but I'll stop here, for the sake of the ones reading.

    3c...I agree that it's a horrific death; but; I wanted to know the background of this particular practice!
    "Take off your mask
    And you will see
    The freak in you
    The freak in me!
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  14. #400
    Halfway 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Right - so theres a religious reason for why the Christians did not take on that practice but lets stay on the dietary aspects and not venture too much out that. I dont see how this would not be passed on through tradition though??

    Fore more similarites / differences : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...h_dietary_laws

    ---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

    Another interesting link : http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/re...slaughter.html


  15. #401
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Imperium's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Oh my god, is this paragraphs I see? o.o

    Edit: I do apologise for breaking the chain of discussion. >_>;
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    ...i could pimp in bulgaria...my game tight like that

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  17. #402
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancy View Post
    Geography could be an influential factor, but it's not the main reason. Christianity as a faith/religion started there and expanded. However, the details regarding slaughter were not taken over by Christian practitioners. Therefore, I assume that slaughtering practices, although have a ground on religious doctrine, are merely preserved though traditions. To exemplify, I'll give you the following situation: strict Judaism (Kite, correct me if I'm wrong) strictly limits travel during Sabbath. Highly religious Jews even count the number of steps they take. However, the Tanakh, which is canon, does not specify that travel should be limited. It says that a man should avoid doing unnecessary work. I can provide other examples from Islam too (traditions), but I'll stop here, for the sake of the ones reading.

    3c...I agree that it's a horrific death; but; I wanted to know the background of this particular practice!
    I didn't mean to imply that it was the main reason. I have no idea, it's just my opinion.

    Christianity is different because it spread Westward and was adopted by Empires and Kingdoms throughout European history. With that, and due to the Great Schism as well as all the reformation movements in the last thousand years there are a bunch of differences in orthopraxy throughout Christianity. A great example of how much of a hodgepodge Christianity is is the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. They're Christian, but observe the Jewish Sabbath of Saturday, share much of the same "kosher" laws that Jews have, but also recommend vegetarianism to it's followers, which is pretty unique among all three faiths. They also forbid alcohol and other drugs from being consumed. Many secular movements in the Western world have led to the strictness of such practices being lost in most denominations. This is why I called most Catholic dietary practices as being "suggestions" rather than law. It's really not the same or a proper comparison in my opinion either. Christianity in that part of the world has been declining rapidly for well over a century. Today they only make up 5% of the population. Christianity's roots are in that part of the world but it hasn't held the same level of "importance" for them since the Crusades.

    Now, the specific reason why Jews and Muslims hold onto these laws and not Christians as a whole, I don't have an answer for. It was really just an educated guess. They're both Abrahamic religions, with populations that lived among each other for quite a long time. It's probably dumbing it down a bit admittedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    Oh my god, is this paragraphs I see? o.o

    Edit: I do apologise for breaking the chain of discussion. >_>;
    You could weigh in Mr.Intellectual...
    Last edited by xi0; November 19, 2012 at 02:04 AM.

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  19. #403
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Imperium's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    But that would be going against my role in this thread as that sarcastic kid in the back of the class. >.> Meh...

    Anyway, another note on ancy's point about tradition is that there is no specific mention in the Qu'ran about which slaughtering method should be used, or how the animal should be killed. The methods are only used because they are traced back to hadiths (prophetic sayings and deeds). Now the interesting part is that while still in its infancy, Islam had relatively little contact with Christians in comparison with Jews who lived amongst them in Arabia. So it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the traditional Jewish method of slaughter did influence or even was the source of the current Islamic method. In fact, its highly likely. The similarities between the two are quite striking, but I don't know anything of pre-Islamic slaughter methods in Arabia to actually say for definite. It could be that the traditional Jewish slaughtering method - or slight variations thereof - was already widespread in the region and this was adopted by the new religion. That could go to explain why it is specifically mentioned in the Qu'ran that kosher meat is allowed to be eaten and hence halal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    A strict kosher diet forbids all invertebrates. I am not aware of a similar law that would forbid Muslims from eating shellfish.
    That is not fully the case. There is a school of thought (hanafi) that does forbid shellfish but its a minority view. It's interesting because unlike other major schools of thought, the majority of the followers from that school are not really near the sea. The others schools do have significant populations that rely on seafood (North Africa, East Africa, Southeast Asia) and they do not follow that opinion and consider all things from the sea to be edible. The more cynical among us might call it pragmatism.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    ...i could pimp in bulgaria...my game tight like that

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  21. #404
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Too much to read...skipped all posts .

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  23. #405
    GOT MILLKKK? 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    Too much to read...skipped all posts .
    I agree, this thread lost its edge.
    Don't. Be. A. Steph.

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