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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Maybe so, but I still say you're making shapes out of shadows.
As far as Skullknight's statement goes, that is an interesting take on it, but for some reason I always thought it had more to do with Casca re-gaining her memory/sanity. What you're saying does make more sense, but if Casca returns to being normal, would she remember what happened to the fetus or the fact that she gave birth to it at all? Do you think she is irrational enough to go against Guts' ambition?
I'd like to have other opinions on this cause to me it's pretty clear it's Zodd we're seeing here. At first when I read this theory on a Berserk forum I also thought the guy was delusional, then I looked closely and it hit me; the wing, the shoulder/back, the neck, the horn and face; it's a side view of Zodd. Keep in mind too this page was added to volume 28, it wasn't in the Young Animal chapter. Why would Miura add such a page if it didn't have a crucial importance?
As for Casca coming back to "normal"... I suppose she wouldn't remember the eclipse, or else there's no reason why she wouldn't lose her mind again, but the events following it may stay with her somehow, including the birth of her child. And yes, I think she'd go against Guts ambition if that ambition was to kill her son, and that'd be extremely interesting to see how all parties involved would react: Casca, Guts, the child, and Griffith too.
Now that you mentioned to look at it as a side view, I suppose it has convinced me a little more that it might be the case. The only thing is that it is the right horn that Zodd is missing and it the horn looks like it is on the right. Zodd's horn curves up and forward. It just looks awkward to me. Maybe I am splitting hairs here, heh.
Also, I never knew that this page was absent from the Young Animal chapter, is that true? Do you have proof? I'd really like to see that...I might need to go hunting on winny for the original chapter.
I have no proof, I just trust the admin from Skullknight.net who brought it up the first time, seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about.
Sorry, but with that little theory proposed and with the picture. I dont see it, what so ever, its not like you fully pointed it out yourself. I mean, I can look at it and go, "Look! A sleeping person!" or, I can see a snake with its tongue sticking out into the night sky.
Its an imaginative theory.
Last edited by KaiserRyuujin; March 26, 2007 at 12:32 AM.
Yeah I didn't think I had to put huge red arrows to Zodd's silhouette, my bad, so as apparently I have to spell it out, you see the cloud in the middle of the picture? You see the silhouette over this cloud? This is where you're supposed to look.
Also I love how you completely dicredit this theory without adressing any of the points I made to support it, your little condescending tone or how you don't say what you think the child could be and why you think so. That makes for a great conversation, good job.
edit There you go, done with Paint:
Those are oddly shaped rocks, don't you think?
Last edited by Aldrich; March 26, 2007 at 03:44 AM.
Guys, we don't need to get nasty with each other. Kaizeru didn't need to bash the administrator you speak of Aldrich, but he does bring up a point. I'm the type who thinks "seeing is believing", and I'll have to investigate further about it on my own I guess.
Okay, want me to say something more. Skull Knight was right down there on the beach. So, where was the little scuffle between Zodd and Skull KnightIf not later too, Zodd knows Skull Knight was near and he goes for that chance to fight his Rival. Zodd never lets go the chance to fight Skull Knight, never ever from what we have seen any time the two are close Zodd challenges.
Also going to what you brought up, and Skull Knights quote, "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for." Thats a single statement on Casca's past and present self and whats gone on. Gutts wishes for that strong warrior side to Casca who he could trust his back with. However, at this point, with the restoration of Casca's mind sanity, she may not wish to be that powerful person she once was. Look where fallowing one man got her, to do battle. To be betrayed most of all and raped and made for a sacrifice for his power. She may wish for a quiet life.
The child I see as its own entity in the world. Nothing more then that, because as we even see it, the child is leaving that place by itself and with no other assistance. Zodd had anything to do, he would of been there. Miura does not shy from showing that beast, and Zodd would love to cross swords at chance with Gutts too. Really thats it there is Zodd is to thirsty to fight people like Skull Knight and Gutts, he never passes up the chance, and nothing ever stops him from even having a small duel.
Ugh...I normally hate adding to speculations and theorys =.=
Last edited by KaiserRyuujin; March 27, 2007 at 02:13 AM.
No, Kaizeru the manner in which you said it wasn't necessary. Bashing or not.
Also, it's obvious that Zodd would pass up the chance to fight SkullKnight or Guts if it was something Griffith wished. Zodd is essentially Griffith's henchman now.
Also your point about Zodd fighting Skull Knight doesn't contradict the theory at all. We've seen Zodd was basically Griffith's dog, if the child is indeed Griffith it's perfectly logical he'd have ordered Zodd to stay still when Skully was talking to Guts cause he didn't want his parents to get caught in a fight between these two monsters and possibly get hurt.
Owkay... can I interrupt you guys? Coz um, Gutts and Caska's child<-- is the topic. Not whether that red outlined thing there is Zodd or not.
About Skullknight remark of Ceska. I always thought that it means that maybe Ceska won't want to stay by Gutt's side (as he wants her too) and will want to go back to Griffith, since you can see when Gutt's fight Zodd at the swords hill, how Ceska calls out for Griffith. But I guess it just might be so because her child is "in" Griffith or something (which again makes all of this Beach Child case really confusing).
Also,If it is Zodd, it is an important lead for the child's case and solution O_oQuote:
So it is relevant to the topic.. :P
We got a little sidetracked there, but whether or not that is indeed Zodd is completely relevant to the topic.
Kai and Aldrich, take it to PMs if you still want to argue whether SK's administrator is credible or not. Personally, I don't see a reason to lie about a detail like that, but my point is that I hadn't heard it before so I was skeptical about where/who Aldrich's source was.
Yeah, sorry for the offtopicness.
I highly doubt Casca would want to go back to Griffith if her memories came back, he's the one responsible for the death of her companions, the one who raped her, broke her mind and cursed her child. As you said she seemed to be somehow attracted to Griffith on the Hills of Swords probably because she recognized her son in him, but you can also see she's confused as she falls on her knees crying afterwards.Quote:
As for Skull Knight words, if it's not about Casca's child being a part of Griffith and how Casca would oppose Guts if he wanted to kill him, I guess it meant maybe Casca doesn't want to be sane again and live with the horror of the Eclipse everyday in her mind. Maybe she's happier in that unconscious state, and while Guts wants her old self back perhaps it's selfish from him and not the best thing for Casca.
Last edited by Aldrich; March 28, 2007 at 03:49 PM.
Sorry, but I can't see any resemblance to zodds silhouette in that picture at all.
and the mods at skullknight like to spread a little disinformation once in a while.
just go and search the "Supreme King Aolsier"-thread and you'll know what i mean.
I believe that the baby was neccessary to bring griffith into this world... it's appearance at albion is just a "coincidence" like griffiths behelith returning to him in the "right" moment.
since we know that there exists a huge entity that affects causality, coincidences in the berserk-universe are always a little fishy to me.