Bleach 517 Discussion

[g0dzax]

Lol,Yoruichi with a Zanpakutou,that would be interesting but imo it would be too sudden...


Speaking of Yoruichi,we have seen no sign of her in this arc yet.Makes one wonder what she is doing.

[Exodi]

Lol,Yoruichi with a Zanpakutou,that would be interesting but imo it would be too sudden...


Speaking of Yoruichi,we have seen no sign of her in this arc yet.Makes one wonder what she is doing.

Cutting asshole Quincy dudes in half.
Other than that, she probably got into some catnip and couldn't be bothered.

[Glassjaw003]

Are you people serious?!?!?! It's friggin' NEL!!!!!

Sure, Nel would make that comment. She, especially in her child state, doesn't talk like that. It is Urahara, maybe Yoruichi.

[Sanadan]

Sure, Nel would make that comment. She, especially in her child state, doesn't talk like that. It is Urahara, maybe Yoruichi.

Yeah I also don't think it's Nel, the person speaking seems to know about the Zero division. Urahara is a good bet.

[Quantized]

I'm sligthly bothered with some saying Grimjow can't get any stronger, thus saying it isn't possible for it to be him appearing next to Urahara and pointing his sword at him.. Remember this?

Vasto Lorde
Tier Harribel as a Vasto Lorde.

Vasto Lorde (最上大虚 (ヴァストローデ), vasuto rōde; Japanese for "Highest Great Hollow") are the third classification of Menos and the highest level of evolution. They are extremely small Hollows, roughly the same size as humans and are extremely rare in number. It is said that you could count their entire number within Hueco Mundo with only the fingers on your hand. The combat capabilities of a Vasto Lorde are above that of the captains of the Gotei 13.[25]

Appearance: Unknown.

Signature Skills: Unknown.

Apart from the need to cannibalize even more Hollows, any special requirements for the creation of a Vasto Lorde are unknown.

Source: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Hollow

Grimjow is an Adjucas, aiming to become a Vastro Lord (Hint, remember Grimjow's flashback in the HM arc).
Kirge may not even have used blut vene, so it's entirely possible even if he didn't get that much stronger, however:

• Grimjow is most certainly training to get stronger, he won't accept Ichigo beating him like that.
• We know for certain that Grimjow will appear again, iirc, according to Kubo interview.
• We know Grimjow aims to become a Vastro Lord.
• We know that Menos evolve, and eventually if having the potential and luck, into a Vastro Lord.
• We haven't for certain seen any true Vastro Lords yet, possible a weak one maybe, like there can be weak captains, for example compare Komamura to Yama-Jii, they're both captain class. Same could apply to the Vastro Lords (weak / strong within the class).
• We know hollows get stronger through eating spiritual beaings, having an unknown limit to evolve. Grimjow may not have reached his limit, in fact, it may be much higher than his current known strength.
• Grimjow's dream is become a sort of "king", possible over HM. Such a king should not be weak, but very strong to maintain control.
• WHY did we get so much Grimjow character development, if nothing more will happen to Grimjow? To me personally, it's obvious that Kubo who usually sucks at story deveopment, has made it as clear as the full moon in a dark clear night, that he's not finished with Grimjow's development, unlike many other characters in Bleach.
• Grimjow may very well have gained his Ressurection version 2, like Ulquiorra, which possible is similar in strength difference like Shikai to a bankai.
• It's possible that he got more in touch with his shinigami side, similar to how Ichigo is getting in touch with his hollow.
• It makes zero sense logically wise if a full blown Vastro Lord Arrancar is generally stronger than a normal full blown shinigami, when, almost all the Espada lost to normal shinigami's (Non-Vizards). To me personally, this is prof that I haven't seen a true Vastro Lord yet, perhaps with the exception of Ulquiorra with his second release similar to that of a bankai release. Beause an average non-arrancar Vastro Lord is stronger than the average shinigami captain, this to me has to be of importance in the story, if it wasn't important in the Aizen arcs.

Also it would make sense to have true Vastro Lord Arrancars appear in the battle against VR, assuming they can battle on levels close to Royal Guards & Ichigo.


It may not be Grimjow appearing next to Urahara, however I fail to see the reasons why it "can't" be Grimjow. If anyone has directly proof for why it can't be him, I'd like to be enlightened, in fact, I'd very much like that

• So, how can't it be Grimjow?
• How isn't it plausisble to be Grimjow?
• I'm not saying it is Grimjow for certain.
• Is your opinion of objective or subjective nature? Both?

Curious for the answers :3

[0Xellos]

regarding the kirge-finisher:

I´d find it strange to have someone kill kirge with an unreleased zan... if not impossible.
So the blade we see should either be gin´s, or an ability release type zanpakuto. It would be too much of a stretch to have someone kill kirge off with shikai/bakai/ressurection/whatever, only to seal it again and point it in uraharas face, 3 seconds later.
Iam not sure if kubo himself even considered that, but IF he did, it might really be gin, even though i think hes dead, once and for ever.
( i dont think he was under-utilized... i liked the mystery about him. Strange mysterious fellow in the beginning, some glimpses about his past and his relation to rangiku, a nice emotional good bye, "i leave it to you", and a girl crying upon his grave. Thats all you need sometimes, his "under utilization" is actually what made him a perfect character for me. We need more mysteries, or else we would have nothing to argue about in forums like this one)
I guess we can exlude love, dunno why but no one cares about him, his shikai wouldnt have kirge sliced in half...
I think hyori should be considered aswell, since she saw that garganta-like opening at the beginning of the arc (ch. 481 page 2 iirc) and might have started an investigation. Maybe the full vizored cast is there at the moment.

Killing with an unreleased zan is simple, you just need to put some force (read: reiatsu) into the slash. Like Kenpachi.
Besides, Kirge probably didn't have Blut Vene on at that time, since he was going to deliver the finishing blow.

---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

Quantized: wikia spews bullshit sometimes, it's not a canon source. But aside from that, I agree with you. And the reason why Grimmjow can get stronger: this is Bleach, anyone can get stronger given some time - or rather, this is shounen manga.

[Hakuteiken]

• Grimjow is most certainly training to get stronger, he won't accept Ichigo beating him like that.
• We know for certain that Grimjow will appear again, iirc, according to Kubo interview.
• We know Grimjow aims to become a Vastro Lord.
• We know that Menos evolve, and eventually if having the potential and luck, into a Vastro Lord.

All checked.

[*]We haven't for certain seen any true Vastro Lords yet, possible a weak one maybe, like there can be weak captains, for example compare Komamura to Yama-Jii, they're both captain class. Same could apply to the Vastro Lords (weak / strong within the class).

Haribel was confirmed to be a Vasto Lorde and realistically, I cannot see Aizen overlooking the presence of some other Vasto Lorde stronger than Espada #3
Then again, top four Espada are all assumed to be Vasto Lorde, so, in that case, Starkk maybe the strongest Vasto Lorde.
Though, I admit that there is a good chance that some more are out there hiding.

[*]We know hollows get stronger through eating spiritual beaings, having an unknown limit to evolve. Grimjow may not have reached his limit, in fact, it may be much higher than his current known strength.

Checked.

[*]Grimjow's dream is become a sort of "king", possible over HM. Such a king should not be weak, but very strong to maintain control.

Apparently he wasn't able to become that strong and Haribel took over the job. Other than that, there isn't a hierarchy or whatsoever that would stall Grimmjow behind Haribel.

[*]WHY did we get so much Grimjow character development, if nothing more will happen to Grimjow? To me personally, it's obvious that Kubo who usually sucks at story deveopment, has made it as clear as the full moon in a dark clear night, that he's not finished with Grimjow's development, unlike many other characters in Bleach.

I'm assuming Grimmjow's return will be borderline cameo appearance, along the lines of Nel's return.
I'm not completely rejecting your view, though.

[*]Grimjow may very well have gained his Ressurection version 2, like Ulquiorra, which possible is similar in strength difference like Shikai to a bankai.

Checked.

[*]It's possible that he got more in touch with his shinigami side, similar to how Ichigo is getting in touch with his hollow.

Shinigami side of a hollow? This I have no idea about.

[*]It makes zero sense logically wise if a full blown Vastro Lord Arrancar is generally stronger than a normal full blown shinigami, when, almost all the Espada lost to normal shinigami's (Non-Vizards). To me personally, this is prof that I haven't seen a true Vastro Lord yet, perhaps with the exception of Ulquiorra with his second release similar to that of a bankai release. Beause an average non-arrancar Vastro Lord is stronger than the average shinigami captain, this to me has to be of importance in the story, if it wasn't important in the Aizen arcs.

So, based on assumption, there were four of them amongst Espada.
Starkk lost to possibly the second strongest captain in Gotei 13 (granted, I assume Kyouraku is more or less on par with Ukitake, but Ukitake lacks durability).
Barragan lost to his own power, because he simply treated his opponents as if they were trash and his arrogance brought along his demise.
Haribel lost to Hitsugaya in a fair way, I'd say.
Ulquiorra defeated Ichigo with Hollow mask on.
That's not a very poor performance, wouldn't you say?

Also it would make sense to have true Vastro Lord Arrancars appear in the battle against VR, assuming they can battle on levels close to Royal Guards & Ichigo.

Possible. Checked.

[*]So, how can't it be Grimjow?

He can possibly be Grimmjow.

[*]How isn't it plausisble to be Grimjow?

In a far-fetched observation, I'd say Grimmjow is kind of a guy who would do something like a head-on attack, rather than a sneaky one.
But I may be delusional here.

[*]Is your opinion of objective or subjective nature? Both?

Definitely subjective. I don't want that person to be Grimmjow. Because? To put it simply, I don't like Grimmjow as a character.

Well, you can clearly understand from my post overall.
I'm not saying it can't be Grimmjow or anything like that.
I just wanted to provide my personal view on the debate and Vasto Lorde subject.

[hollowdemon]

Sure, Nel would make that comment. She, especially in her child state, doesn't talk like that. It is Urahara, maybe Yoruichi.

Yeah I also don't think it's Nel, the person speaking seems to know about the Zero division. Urahara is a good bet.

Let's get one thing cleared up.....
A.) There's a mystery person who saved Urahara and co.
B.) The person talking as they arrive behind Ichigo in SS



It's TWO completely different situations with TWO different persons
which likely could be:
A.) Grimmjow, Gin, Isshin, Ryuuken, Nel, and etc.
B.) Most likely Urahara


So it seems there are TWO possible candidates not just ONE person who did the saving and
now talking as they enter SS WITH.

[0Xellos]

hollowdemon: Or, Ichi came (Ichi - go - come pun not intended) to SS alone; the person talking on the phone is Urahara, who's with the mystery person atm.

[SaitoSpike]

i wonder if they're really going to ask Ichigo to become a RG member....i'm sure he'll decline though and in case you're wondering where im getting this randomness from, it seems that this next chapter is called "The Sixth" however i'm not sure about that jus what i read somewhere

-------------
in terms of if its Grimm or not who appeared i'd say its possible its him but aside from a few other reasons i personally feel it isnt him, i think that this character who appeared is very important or central to the current plot and i just dont see how that applies to Grimm....yes he's an arrancar fighting for his homeworld which has been taken over but there's a few others too

so if Grimm is there i think there's someone or others with him who appeared...but if its one individual i doubt its Grimm....can't wait to find out how wrong or right i am either way

[God]

i wonder if they're really going to ask Ichigo to become a RG member....i'm sure he'll decline though

He's not about to be asked shit. He's already out of line with the many achievements he's done, but SS just fell. They will be doing the necessaries. Possibly sterilization? lol. He's already out of order. Ichi will have to prove once again why is he worthy of his title and position. It's regulation time for Zero Squad. Doubt they are about to praise him the way SS is looking.

[the6millionbeliman]

it seems that this next chapter is called "The Sixth" however i'm not sure about that jus what i read somewhere

It was a joke title on BA for 518. The chapter is not out or named anywhere.

[movinair]

Are you people serious?!?!?! It's friggin' NEL!!!!!

I meant Nel killed Opie Kirge, not communicated with 0 Squad. Clearly that is Urahara. man you guys can twist it around in a heartbeat!

[ulquihorror]

ermm excuse me, but when did Halibel lose to Hitsugaya? He merely managed to give her few scratches...Aizen is the one who put her down.

[Mauricio Raphael]

Yay! This chapter was what I hoped for following last chapter.

Seeing the members of the Zero Division interacting with the captains was very nice. However, I do hope we'll get to see the guy wearing the glasses interact with them next chapter. He wasn't shown at all in this chapter but I'm guessing maybe he was assessing the damage done to SS since Oshou did say that Zero Division was sent to help rebuild Soul Society.

With most of the Zero Division members showcased in some fashion, I have to say I still like them.

Hikifune seems pretty gregarious. I was surprised by what Shinji said that she looks different from 100 years ago. Maybe we'll get to see what she looked like before in some way

The samurai-looking guy, out of all of them, seems the most serious. I was definitely surprised that he is a healer and that he taught Unohana I thought it was little harsh what he did to Soifon but I do think he was right in what he said about how Zero Division and Gotei 13 protect two different things.

Oshou definitely seems like the leader, calming everyone down and keeping everything on task. He still is my favorite out of all of them He didn't interact anyone on an individual basis like the others besides Ichigo. Too bad because it would have given us a little more on his personality.

Finally, there is Shuutara, who to me seems the most intriguing with those arms. It was amazing to see her (or him?) get Byakuya and everyone in such a short time. And there is some history with Mayuri...

I was definitely surprised when they announced that part of their mission was to take Ichigo to the Royal Palace. It seems like it's too fast to go to the Royal Palace but seeing as the broken Tensa Zangetsu is being taken along with everyone else, I guess there's a chance that Ichigo's Bankai will be fixed. But why take them now? Doesn't the Zero Division have to help with rebuilding Soul Society as per their mission told by the King?

Also, it is weird that they chose Ichigo to go along with bringing along Byakuya, Renji, and Rukia who apparently need the skills of Samurai-looking Guy to be healed fully. What about Kenpachi? He was hurt just as bad as these guys. As others have said, it seems that their intention to bring Ichigo to the Royal Palace might not be all good-willed

Hopefully, next chapter, there'll be more light shed on this matter especially with the guy who spoke towards Ichigo and the Zero Division.