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Thread: Broken bankais

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit
    Komamura's "exception" makes it even more weird. So in all of these years and all of these captains, Komamura is the only shinigami to have such a close bond with his zanpakuto? What about the older shinigami? What about the CC?
    I don't think Mayuri really meant that Komamura's bond with his Zanpakutou was insanely strong,but rather reffered to the weakness of his Bankai,in which if his Bankai is damaged so is he,thus resulting a close bond with it.


    I think the reason people are most upset with this broken Bankai thing is mainly the fact that the characters affected by this asspull are currently labeled "weak" and it is not so.I'll take Mayuri's word for granted,and assume the segments of Hihiou Zabimaru destroyed by Byakuya were destroyed forever.However,does that mean that Renji himself got weaker ? Hell no,just take a look at the Fullbring arc,it's clear as hell he got helluva lot stronger.So,even if Ikkaku's Bankai somewhat got weaker,if Ikkaku trained and got stronger,even with his weaker Bankai,he'd still be clearly stronger than his old self.


    Oh,and another thing : Mayuri said he "modified" his Zanpakutou,and that a broken Bankai can never be returned to it's former state.Which can really mean only two things:

    -it gets more powerful than it's former state;
    -it gets weaker than it's former state;

    I'd say it's pretty clear,Mayuri didn't tell us the whole story,and there must be some hidden facts here.

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    @g0dzax

    I think Mayuri meant what he said. He said the weakness was an effect of that bond, not that the bond was just physical.

    I think the people are just mad that it's inconsistent with what we've been shown and kinda just came out of nowhere. I have no clue. I would like to know though.

    Well, Mayuri himself had nothing to lose with his Bankai. His main power with his Bankai is the poison it releases, which as stated by himself, he changes anyway. Although he never stated whether or not his lost any power. He just says he modified it. Other people, like Ikkaku, don't have that luxary and apparently lose power.The way he explained it, it seems pretty obvious that the Bankai isn't as powerful as it was before it was broken.

    I wouldn't hold my breathe on Mayuri hiding facts, but it's possible. I guess we can wait for him or Urahara to tell the truth.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Could this be a way for Kubo to exclude older chars like Ikkaku? To make them less relevant and leave room for new chars?

  4. #34
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    It seems kinda unlikely that is the case... wouldn't such a development set up characters for us to see how they deal with potentially maimed and reduced characters? I'd argue that for kubo to make room for new characters he has to leave old characters alone rather than create specific situations where we can see them develop beyond their innate limitations.

  5. #35
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Ichigo is a special hybrid, so I'm sure he'll find someway to overcome his maimed Bankai by developing his other abilities and creating new techniques. If he does manage to somewhat repair his Bankai it will never go back to what it was as it's former potential is lost, so I question how effective it can be used in battle. I'm glad it's destroyed he's been so overly reliant on it since the rescue Rukia arc there's no surprise of what he's going to do in battle. At least now there will be change for awhile.
    Last edited by BASED Shinigami; November 19, 2012 at 01:44 AM.
    My comic suggestions: Ecchi, Martial Arts, Historical, Harem, Adventure!

  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    I would like to put forth that it was not ichigos bankai that got broken but rather ichigo himself.
    With the "mother" bombshell that bach unleashed to ichigo- his state of mind was shaken to its very foundation-
    This comment had the effect of obliterating ichigos resolve. it was at this point his bankai strength became for lack of a better word, brittle.

    then the quincy cut it very quickly- there was no battle- nothing to prepare ichigos state of mind that he was under attack- so his bankais state remained brittle.
    Then the quincy clipped it in half. ichigo left standing there like a retard looking at his broken bankai as the enemy escapes.

    I like how the hole they disappeared into looks like a hollow hole.


    --- fast forward--
    Ichigo has his broken bankai spread out on a table and is told that it cannot be fixed as it is different from shikai- he is given several examples of others with broken bankai and then right before any exchange of depth regarding the subject happens we get interrupted by the arrival of the zero squad.


    =---possible outcomes----
    I think urahara will have to be consulted-
    1: he is smarter than mayuri-
    2: he may have a better idea as to why repairing a broken bankai seems to be so elusive.

    I think that Isshin will have much to say on the subject,
    1: Ichigo could learn that the bankai is nothing more than ichigo himself. Until he reforges his mind and becomes at peace with himself how can he hope to reforge his zanpaktou.
    2: ichigo will have to enter his inner world and reconcile with tensa zangetsu-

    I am hoping that the zero division agree to train ichigo or at least test him in some way before pointing him in the right direction to get the bankai reforged.

  7. #37
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    I am not entirely sure that a broken bankai could be fixed with just acquiring inner peace or some other mental state. While ichigo's mental state might have something to do with his bankai being broken I don't think that fixing that mental state is enough to heal ichigo's bankai. It seems to easy, specially considering that a bankai can be broken without the user being in a particular mental state. Ichigo's bankai in the end was broken because of a difference in power which arose for whatever reason so even if there was a particular mental state to blame it is still the difference in power which got the bankai broken and that is basically the only actual reason a bankai would ever break. I mean, as far as we know ikkaku's and renji's state of mind is not quite as fragile as ichigo's. If just mental state and whatnot was enough for bankai to be healed there is no reason for them to currently have any sort of long term problem with bankai.

    As of now the only way I can imagine for a bankai to be fully restored is orihime and nothing else. I guess ichigo having shinigaim, quincy and hollow powers in one could somehow result in the bankai being healed. I wonder if perhaps changing which of his spirits is in charge would help. Say, breaking bankai would have maimed zangetsu however if he gets changed for shirosaki then ichigo can use his bankai at full power.

  8. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    IAs of now the only way I can imagine for a bankai to be fully restored is orihime and nothing else. .
    But the point is not simply to restore a breakable bankai again- that woud not serve any purpose as the ban kai could be snapped again.

    I see your point on the difference in power being the cause and not the state of mind- however, I think that if ichgos state of mind isnt focused, he will not be able to reforge his sword- there are several examples of his state of mind directly effecting his shikai and bankai's sharpness in battle.

    I would ultimately like to see ichigo sit on his ass- place his broken bankai on his lap an enter his inner world.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    I agree with kkck,I doubt that all is required for a broken Bankai to be repaired is to simply enter one's inner world and commune with the Zanpakutou.If that were the case,it would be too easy and it would make damaging a Bankai a quite useless feat,since one can simply repair it by his inner world.


    I don't think that's only Orihime the only one who can repair a broken Bankai,though it seems the most likely and rational action.Urahara may also have something for this,Isshin may also hold some knowledge(seeing as his Zanpakutou is very similar to Ichigo's),and last,but not least,the RG themselves may hold some knowledge.Which makes wonder,why didn't Kubo show their Zanpakuto's?


    And also,this whole broken Bankai affair may actually be the answer as to why Yoruichi doesn't use a Zanpakutou: it was destroyed in a battle whilst in Bankai mode.

    Then again,it makes me wonder if every character who has Bankai is susceptible to getting his Bankai broken;taking a look at Hitsu,it seems to me that to destroy his Bankai you actually have to cut his sword just like what happened to Ichigo;Byakuya's Bankai makes it impossible for it to be damaged,maybe he loses some petals but he has a huge amount of them;Yama-jii himself again,to damage his Bankai you'd have to cut his sword,it's just that some Shinigami seem prone to getting their Bankai damaged(Komamura for example)whilst other are not(Byakuya for example).I don't know,it's either a plot-hole,or maybe we don't have all the facts,maybe there are more explanations coming the next chapter.

  10. #40
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    But the point is not simply to restore a breakable bankai again- that woud not serve any purpose as the ban kai could be snapped again.

    I see your point on the difference in power being the cause and not the state of mind- however, I think that if ichgos state of mind isnt focused, he will not be able to reforge his sword- there are several examples of his state of mind directly effecting his shikai and bankai's sharpness in battle.

    I would ultimately like to see ichigo sit on his ass- place his broken bankai on his lap an enter his inner world.
    Well, if it was that easy then others would do it too. Note that akon was apparently the one who put ikkaku's bankai back together. I wonder what will happen to ichigo's sword if he undoes his bankai transformation though. Will we see the shikai broken or will the pieces turn into an unbroken shikai? If the pieces turn into an broken shikai then once ichigo repairs it the bankai will also be unbroken. Still, based on mayuri's explanation that likely won't be enough to restore it to its full might. In turn if the shikai seems to be unbroken then it is very likely that once ichigo uses his bankai it will still be in fact broken.

    ---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by g0dzax View Post
    I agree with kkck,I doubt that all is required for a broken Bankai to be repaired is to simply enter one's inner world and commune with the Zanpakutou.If that were the case,it would be too easy and it would make damaging a Bankai a quite useless feat,since one can simply repair it by his inner world.


    I don't think that's only Orihime the only one who can repair a broken Bankai,though it seems the most likely and rational action.Urahara may also have something for this,Isshin may also hold some knowledge(seeing as his Zanpakutou is very similar to Ichigo's),and last,but not least,the RG themselves may hold some knowledge.Which makes wonder,why didn't Kubo show their Zanpakuto's?


    And also,this whole broken Bankai affair may actually be the answer as to why Yoruichi doesn't use a Zanpakutou: it was destroyed in a battle whilst in Bankai mode.

    Then again,it makes me wonder if every character who has Bankai is susceptible to getting his Bankai broken;taking a look at Hitsu,it seems to me that to destroy his Bankai you actually have to cut his sword just like what happened to Ichigo;Byakuya's Bankai makes it impossible for it to be damaged,maybe he loses some petals but he has a huge amount of them;Yama-jii himself again,to damage his Bankai you'd have to cut his sword,it's just that some Shinigami seem prone to getting their Bankai damaged(Komamura for example)whilst other are not(Byakuya for example).I don't know,it's either a plot-hole,or maybe we don't have all the facts,maybe there are more explanations coming the next chapter.
    If urahara knew how to repair bankai though, why wouldn't everyone else know? As far as a shinigami is concerned his bankai is his most precious weapon. If there was a method which could potentially work for everyone then what benefit would there be in urahara or ishin keeping it to themselves? It would be in the best interest of everyone they know to tell them how to repair their maimed bankais. If repairing bankai was an issue of sitting with your spirit and doing something highly personalized then that is what everyone would do and repairing a bankai would not be an issue for anyone ever. So at least based on what mayuri said, repairing a broken bankai is not possible at all for inner spirits (it wouldn't make sense for mayuri to lie about this as ichigo would simply have to ask zangetsu about ) or by external means (if it was all ichigo would have to do is ask renji or ikkaku).

    Kubo just barely introduced the royals. Its not like they were all specifically shown with no zampakuto.

  11. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Well,Urahara knew how to open a Garganta yet Mayuri didn't at the time,I guess he just holds some information for him ; Isshin seems to have no connection to the current G13 so it would be weird if he didn't keep it for himself.


    So it boils down to Orihime...I just can't bring myself to believe that.There must some way to recover a broken Bankai;I guess it'll be shown later in the manga...

  12. #42
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    Ishin didn't have powers for about 20 years though. And even then he did have contact with urahara who would have been able to relay such important information to SS if he had cared to do it. More so, getting to hueco mundo would be far less important than telling shinigami how to restore the vast mayority of their power. For the most part going to HM would have been useless to SS. It is only because orihime was kidnapped that such a thing got even a semblance of importance. Looking back SS never seemed to care about going to HM in general. Even then we still don't know how long ago urahara figured out garganta or whether he has finished figuring it out (his requires a long walk in between dimensions while hollow's and aizen's garganta requires no such thing at all). I really don't think there is a known way to recover a bankai at this point. Unless mayuri is so petty that he lied to ichigo by telling him stuff the guy in the next room and every friend he has can prove wrong. Ichigo's bankai will likely get the former shape it had but it is unlikely it will be as it was.

  13. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Broken bankais

    It's interesting how in these thousands of years there was no method invented to repair broken Bankai's.

    Oh well,since Quincy are specialized in manipulating spirit particles,I reckon we'll see Ichigo using his Quincy powers to repair his blade...that or Orihime.I doubt Mayuri lied to him,he wouldn't have any reason to do that.

    And also,will Ichigo's Bankai get the former shape ? I think Kubo prepared this broken Bankai affair so that it gives Ichigo a reason to power-up,and train his newly-discovered Quincy powers.There's got to be a point to Ichigo's blade being cut.I wonder if Hascwald did it on purpose,or did it on impulse.

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    Re: Broken bankais

    Well, after mayuri sent ichigo to FKT to fight aizen he swear he would have his revenge on ichigo for comparing him to urahara. If this was it then it would be a remarkably petty revenge though, not what I would expect from mayuri.

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    Re: Broken bankais

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, after mayuri sent ichigo to FKT to fight aizen he swear he would have his revenge on ichigo for comparing him to urahara. If this was it then it would be a remarkably petty revenge though, not what I would expect from mayuri.
    Nice catch, man. xD Mayuri is one hell of a son of a bitch. It would suit him. Maybe RG will prove him wrong.

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