Can we all agree to give the props to Sakura?

[RandomShikafan]

Huh? Let see....

Shikamaru did a great job to defeat the ginkin brothers. ( well, t'was really ino but watevahh)
Shikamaru did a very good job on stopping obito's movement even though it's just merely a seconds.

Now for sakura.

Sakura may already healed a hundred/s ninjas.
Sakura is the one who found out about those white zetsus who had yamato's DNA/mokuton to make them stronger. And obito/madara had hashirama's DNA.
Sakura found out that zetsu had the ability to copy everyone's chakra.

For me, sakura is more use full than shikamaru in this war.

First of all, I was talking present time. As in, he's not getting his ass kicked by rocks and needing to be saved from this and that by Kakashi. Secondly, you are pulling that number of hundreds ninja healed completely out of your ass. I could just as easily say Shikamaru may have already offscreened a hundred Zetsu. They found out that Madara has Hashirama DNA because Madara SHOWED them. Sakura didn't effect anything. Saying that the Zetsu (who are really just Hashirama clones) have Yamato cells to make them stronger helped HOW exactly. By that time they KNEW how strong the Zetsus were. Thousands of ninjas had already fought them.

He doesn't? Or he can't?

He doesn't. EVERYBODY doesn't. When Orochimaru dfoes his techniques do people "OMG he's such a genius, if only we were as talented as he was, then we'd stand a chance!"

No, they chide him for being an inhuman monster. Sasuke outright thinks it utterly pathetic.

The idea that Shikaku, if he could would immeaditely start experimenting on hundreds of civilians like Orochimaru in order to master Kinjutsu is so stupid I can't even wrap my head around it.

Seriously: Edo Tensei, one death for every use. Bodyswapping: dozens of ninjas from Konoha were kidnapped to experiment on too even get started. and Orochimaru wasn't even remotely there yet, it took him many more years of experimenting to get it done. And then obviously, he has to sacrifice another ninja to do it. The whole Hashirama cell thing. 80 orphans were killed in that experiment. Danzo's arm: the entire Uchiha clan had to die to provide the neccesary eyes. The Curseseal. 1 in 10 successrate. Orochimaru killed hundreds of people to enhance dozens. Hidan's jutsu: You have to kill frequently, indefinitely to keep the immortality going. Kakuzu jutsu: you gotta rip out other people hearts and use them as your own. Itachi: Kill your closest friend. Sasori: one life for every human puppet. Pain: use people corpses as vessels.

Now these are all brilliant ninja. But none of them would be anywhere near as dangerous as they are if they didn't find the willingness to start buthering people just to progress their own jutsus. Which Shikaku doesn't have. That's the difference.

[marshall313]

First of all, I was talking present time. As in, he's not getting his ass kicked by rocks and needing to be saved from this and that by Kakashi. Secondly, you are pulling that number of hundreds ninja healed completely out of your ass. I could just as easily say Shikamaru may have already offscreened a hundred Zetsu. They found out that Madara has Hashirama DNA because Madara SHOWED them. Sakura didn't effect anything. Saying that the Zetsu (who are really just Hashirama clones) have Yamato cells to make them stronger helped HOW exactly. By that time they KNEW how strong the Zetsus were. Thousands of ninjas had already fought them.



He doesn't. EVERYBODY doesn't. When Orochimaru dfoes his techniques do people "OMG he's such a genius, if only we were as talented as he was, then we'd stand a chance!"

No, they chide him for being an inhuman monster. Sasuke outright thinks it utterly pathetic.

The idea that Shikaku, if he could would immeaditely start experimenting on hundreds of civilians like Orochimaru in order to master Kinjutsu is so stupid I can't even wrap my head around it.

Seriously: Edo Tensei, one death for every use. Bodyswapping: dozens of ninjas from Konoha were kidnapped to experiment on too even get started. and Orochimaru wasn't even remotely there yet, it took him many more years of experimenting to get it done. And then obviously, he has to sacrifice another ninja to do it. The whole Hashirama cell thing. 80 orphans were killed in that experiment. Danzo's arm: the entire Uchiha clan had to die to provide the neccesary eyes. The Curseseal. 1 in 10 successrate. Orochimaru killed hundreds of people to enhance dozens. Hidan's jutsu: You have to kill frequently, indefinitely to keep the immortality going. Kakuzu jutsu: you gotta rip out other people hearts and use them as your own. Itachi: Kill your closest friend. Sasori: one life for every human puppet. Pain: use people corpses as vessels.

Now these are all brilliant ninja. But none of them would be anywhere near as dangerous as they are if they didn't find the willingness to start buthering people just to progress their own jutsus. Which Shikaku doesn't have. That's the difference.

Out of my ass?

Sakura is a healer and tsunades apprentice. How many medical ninjas out there anyway? Oh, no manga scan then it's irrelevant right? Yeah, but saying that sakura already healed a hundred/s is more believable than shikamaru who already killed a hundred zetsu. for Pete's sake, than man is powerless and can only use his one and only shadow jutsu in just 5 to 10 minutes.

And no, sakura is the one who performed the medical examination of zetsu who was killed by her punch. She analized everything about zetsu with yamato's DNA, and for obito/madara who had hashirama's DNA. Take note, that's before the real madara showed up. Well, in terms of medical jutsu/stuff, sakura is more awesome or above than shikamaru. So there's no point of arguing. Sakura is more smarter than shikamaru in medical stuff.

The thing is, there's a huge difference between this two. ''He doesn't '' and '' he can't ''.

Even if shikaku dont want to take an experiment to his fellow konoha nins, but if he had an amazing IQ/intelligent then he can understand everything and can create any jutsu he wants. But he haven't, didn't he? Yupz, because he doesn't have the skills and talents. His amazing IQ isn't enough to become a powerful ninja or to create a powerful jutsu. Why? Because he isn't the best of the best. He may be a genius but not on everything. He's just an advisor and a planner. In that field, he's one of the best.

Well, maybe the best example is minato.

He never killed any people to become a powerful ninja. He never experiment on a dead body to create his powerful sealing jutsu. He never killed a thousand ninjas to create his uber hax jutsu, his hiraishin. He never destroyed a village to create or to test his amazing S/T barrier. He's just using his knowledge/IQ to create and understand everything. In the ninja world, killing isn't just a way to become strong or powerful ninja. It's all about a talent and skills. And above all, it's how capable your brain/IQ/skills/intelligent really is.

And we that, we can conclude that shikaku is just an strategist/tactician. His brilliant mind and amazing IQ are just for analizing and planning. His amazing IQ is just limited to that skills.

But anyway, he's no doubt one of the most amazing tactician/strategist of the hidden village of konoha.

[RandomShikafan]

Out of my ass?

Sakura is a healer and tsunades apprentice. How many medical ninjas out there anyway? Oh, no manga scan then it's irrelevant right? Yeah, but saying that sakura already healed a hundred/s is more believable than shikamaru who already killed a hundred zetsu. for Pete's sake, than man is powerless and can only use his one and only shadow jutsu in just 5 to 10 minutes.

A great many medical nin? Add to that that Sakura spent most of the first day fighting and is now on the battlefield again, I'd say her healing hundreds, as in, several dozens every hour is grossly overstating things.

And no, sakura is the one who performed the medical examination of zetsu who was killed by her punch. She analized everything about zetsu with yamato's DNA, and for obito/madara who had hashirama's DNA. Take note, that's before the real madara showed up. Well, in terms of medical jutsu/stuff, sakura is more awesome or above than shikamaru. So there's no point of arguing. Sakura is more smarter than shikamaru in medical stuff.

And yet they didn't know what Madara's deal was until he showed he could do Mokuton and he showed he had Hashirama's face implanted on him. What exactly did Sakura's info crucially change? But yes, at the moment Saakura know more about the medical stuff then shikamaru. That's the area she focused on and not the area he focused on.

The thing is, there's a huge difference between this two. ''He doesn't '' and '' he can't ''.

Even if shikaku dont want to take an experiment to his fellow konoha nins, but if he had an amazing IQ/intelligent then he can understand everything and can create any jutsu he wants. But he haven't, didn't he? Yupz, because he doesn't have the skills and talents. His amazing IQ isn't enough to become a powerful ninja or to create a powerful jutsu. Why? Because he isn't the best of the best. He may be a genius but not on everything. He's just an advisor and a planner. In that field, he's one of the best.

No. Have you read absolutely nothing about Naruto. Orochimaru IS a genius. But that wasn't enough by itself, or he would never have needed to leave the village. Sasori was a genius too, that wasn't by itself enough either. For that matter, just having a kekkai genkai/a tailed beast and talent doesn't get you to the top either. Gaara, for all his talent and the tailed beast inside wouldn't be where he is today if his father didn't put him through hell, Naruto/Sasuke wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are without having grown strong by being alone this has been explicietly referenced, Itachi is the person he is because he saw the horrors of war at an early age, everything Itachi has done has been to motive Sasuke, cause Sasuke would've never been the person he neded to be just by going through the life of a Konoha Shinobi with the great talent and skill he possessed alone. Nagato became Pain not just cause he was given the Rinnegan but because he grew up in the Countro of the Rain and he believed his parents were killed by Konoha ninja. Skills/talent/IQ has NEVER been enough to create an S-class ninja, drive/motivation has always been more important. Look at Obito, Lee and Naruto, it wasn't sheer talent and ingenuity that made them (they don't have smidgem of the stuff between the three of them).

And Shikaku, unlike Madara/Itachi/Fourth Kazekage doesn't go out of his way to make his charge alone and hateful.

Well, maybe the best example is minato.

He never killed any people to become a powerful ninja. He never experiment on a dead body to create his powerful sealing jutsu. He never killed a thousand ninjas to create his uber hax jutsu, his hiraishin. He never destroyed a village to create or to test his amazing S/T barrier. He's just using his knowledge/IQ to create and understand everything. In the ninja world, killing isn't just a way to become strong or powerful ninja. It's all about a talent and skills. And above all, it's how capable your brain/IQ/skills/intelligent really is.

Maybe Minato is the one sole exception. He doesn't really fit the theme of the story or at least we don't really know that made him the man he is.

And we that, we can conclude that shikaku is just an strategist/tactician. His brilliant mind and amazing IQ are just for analizing and planning. His amazing IQ is just limited to that skills.

But anyway, he's no doubt one of the most amazing tactician/strategist of the hidden village of konoha.

And the Nara clan doesn't specialise in medical drugs at all and Chouji died in part 1. And Sakura is the Genjutsu expert since Kakashi says that's where her true talents lay and therefore is the one and only thing she could ever POSSIBLY be.

And it's a little late to put in a but after you admitted you consider Shikamaru absolutely powerless and possessing nothing but a single jutsu. We know where you stand.

[marshall313]

Well, that's exactly a fact. Shikamaru is really powerless as a ninja. Why? Because his strength is his amazing mind/IQ for strategy/tactics.

Shikamaru may be smarter than sakura for overall aspects.'but there are certain field/area/stuff that shows sakura is more smarter than shikamaru. My point is, shikamaru isn't the best of the best. He may be a one of a kind genius, but he isn't a genius for everything.

[KingOfNight]

Well, that's exactly a fact. Shikamaru is really powerless as a ninja. Why? Because his strength is his amazing mind/IQ for strategy/tactics.

The Akatsuki must be a bunch of trash to have one of their members buried underground by a powerless Ninja. It's just so happens that the said Ninja was equal to Kakashi in power.

[darkprince0521]

to say that Shikamaru is very powerful would be a fabrication of truth. after seeing Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi or Gai; let alone Madara or Tobi; we should actually have a good idea what very powerful means. Shikamaru doesn't even come close, let alone be very powerful. he is very intelligent and can think of great strategies; i can agree with that; but Shikaku or Shikamaru are very powerful? i won't buy that one.

Maybe Minato is the one sole exception. He doesn't really fit the theme of the story or at least we don't really know that made him the man he is.

let's come up with few more sole exception then:

Naruto, Sasuke, Jiraiya, Gai, Kakashi, Gaara......



well well, there are so many sole exception.

The Akatsuki must be a bunch of trash to have one of their members buried underground by a powerless Ninja. It's just so happens that the said Ninja was equal to Kakashi in power.

may be his taijutsu was on par with Kakashi; considering the fact that we never saw him using anything other than taijutsu and being immortal; but when Kakashi's sharingan comes into play; would you still think that he is just as powerful as Kakashi? you shouldn't.

anyway, Shikamaru didn't win against Hidan because of his strength, he won because of his strategy. now you can say that strategy is part of his strength; but that's a topic for another time. here the talk is all about Shikamaru being a powerhouse.

[marshall313]

to say that Shikamaru is very powerful would be a fabrication of truth. after seeing Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi or Gai; let alone Madara or Tobi; we should actually have a good idea what very powerful means. Shikamaru doesn't even come close, let alone be very powerful. he is very intelligent and can think of great strategies; i can agree with that; but Shikaku or Shikamaru are very powerful? i won't buy that one.



let's come up with few more sole exception then:

Naruto, Sasuke, Jiraiya, Gai, Kakashi, Gaara......



well well, there are so many sole exception.



may be his taijutsu was on par with Kakashi; considering the fact that we never saw him using anything other than taijutsu and being immortal; but when Kakashi's sharingan comes into play; would you still think that he is just as powerful as Kakashi? you shouldn't.

anyway, Shikamaru didn't win against Hidan because of his strength, he won because of his strategy. now you can say that strategy is part of his strength; but that's a topic for another time. here the talk is all about Shikamaru being a powerhouse.

Exactly. They're just fit to become a tactician/strategist. But being a powerhouse? Oh no.

Well, shikamaru won against hidan because he already set up a trap specifically for him. That's shikamaru's strength. He's just a great strategist. His amazing IQ is just for planning, strategy and analyzing. Nothing more, nothing less.

[KingOfNight]

may be his taijutsu was on par with Kakashi; considering the fact that we never saw him using anything other than taijutsu and being immortal; but when Kakashi's sharingan comes into play; would you still think that he is just as powerful as Kakashi? you shouldn't.

anyway, Shikamaru didn't win against Hidan because of his strength, he won because of his strategy. now you can say that strategy is part of his strength; but that's a topic for another time. here the talk is all about Shikamaru being a powerhouse.

You mean the useless Sharingan that couldn't kill anyone ? How can you even overrate that crap ? It couldn't kill Deidara and was useless against Pain, didn't help him against Kakuzu and Hidan. What's so super about it exactly ?

anyway, Shikamaru didn't win against Hidan because of his strength, he won because of his strategy. now you can say that strategy is part of his strength; but that's a topic for another time. here the talk is all about Shikamaru being a powerhouse.

Naruto didn't win against Pain because of his strength either.

Itachi didn't win against Kabuto by strength either.

Naruto didn't defeat the 3rd Raikage by strength as well.

Minato didn't seal the Kyuubi by strength either.

It was all by strategy. The fact that you separate strategy from strength is (No offence at all) too stupid. Otherwise, why would Kishi include intelligence when he gives the character stats ?

[M3J]

... the thread is about Sakura, not Shikamaru.

[darkprince0521]

... the thread is about Sakura, not Shikamaru.

true to that.

let's keep this thread on topic. if we have to discuss Shikamaru, then someone needs to find or create another thread.

just my two cents on one thing

You mean the useless Sharingan that couldn't kill anyone ? How can you even overrate that crap ? It couldn't kill Deidara and was useless against Pain, didn't help him against Kakuzu and Hidan. What's so super about it exactly ?

aren't you reading the manga recently? and still you would say Kakashi's sharingan is useless?

[RandomShikafan]

to say that Shikamaru is very powerful would be a fabrication of truth. after seeing Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi or Gai; let alone Madara or Tobi; we should actually have a good idea what very powerful means. Shikamaru doesn't even come close, let alone be very powerful. he is very intelligent and can think of great strategies; i can agree with that; but Shikaku or Shikamaru are very powerful? i won't buy that one.

We aren't talking about them being powerful, we're talking him about him being completely powerless.

let's come up with few more sole exception then:

Naruto, Sasuke, Jiraiya, Gai, Kakashi, Gaara......

Sasuke explicietly receited the power of hatred/darkness or the pain of solitude as why he got as far as he did. Itachi didn't make him relive the death of his family for 36 hours straight for ****s and giggles. Gaara got where he did because his father put him through hell too. Kakashi wouldn't be the person he is either without having the need to prove himself after his father steeped himself in shame and Obito sacrificed himself and everyone else he cared about died too. The idea that they, not too mention Naruto got where they did because of talents/skills/IQ alone is too dismiss just about everything that they went through in this manga as unneccesary.

None of these people would've gotten where they did without the incredible chip on their shoulder, because circumstances put them through hell and gave them an apocalyptic need to prove themselves. Something that Shikamaru lacks. Shikamaru is a supergenius but lazy, Lee is talentless as a ninja but incredible driven. Lee>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shikamaru as a fighter, in Part 1 anyway. I see you all slept through the obvious lesson. The fact that Shikaku IS only serving as strategist doesn't mean that a strategist is the only thing his talents and skills every made him capable of becoming. And the fact that he is serving as strategist, a crucial role that he is irreplaceable in doesn't it is the one and only thing he is physically capable of doing in the world.

anyway, Shikamaru didn't win against Hidan because of his strength, he won because of his strategy. now you can say that strategy is part of his strength; but that's a topic for another time. here the talk is all about Shikamaru being a powerhouse.

Again the talk is about marshall313's supposition Shikamaru being absolutely powerless and Shikaku being absolutely hopeless as a ninja.

[KingOfNight]

aren't you reading the manga recently? and still you would say Kakashi's sharingan is useless?

Yes I'm reading the manga. And answer me, did it kill Madara ? Did it kill Obito ? Didn't affect any living being ?

[marshall313]

We aren't talking about them being powerful, we're talking him about him being completely powerless.



Sasuke explicietly receited the power of hatred/darkness or the pain of solitude as why he got as far as he did. Itachi didn't make him relive the death of his family for 36 hours straight for ****s and giggles. Gaara got where he did because his father put him through hell too. Kakashi wouldn't be the person he is either without having the need to prove himself after his father steeped himself in shame and Obito sacrificed himself and everyone else he cared about died too. The idea that they, not too mention Naruto got where they did because of talents/skills/IQ alone is too dismiss just about everything that they went through in this manga as unneccesary.

None of these people would've gotten where they did without the incredible chip on their shoulder, because circumstances put them through hell and gave them an apocalyptic need to prove themselves. Something that Shikamaru lacks. Shikamaru is a supergenius but lazy, Lee is talentless as a ninja but incredible driven. Lee>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shikamaru as a fighter, in Part 1 anyway. I see you all slept through the obvious lesson. The fact that Shikaku IS only serving as strategist doesn't mean that a strategist is the only thing his talents and skills every made him capable of becoming. And the fact that he is serving as strategist, a crucial role that he is irreplaceable in doesn't it is the one and only thing he is physically capable of doing in the world.



Again the talk is about marshall313's supposition Shikamaru being absolutely powerless and Shikaku being absolutely hopeless as a ninja.

Did I say shikaku is a hopeless ninja?

My point is, shikamaru isn't the genius of all genius. He may be had an amazing IQ that surpasses sakura, but there are certain things/field/stuff that indicates sakura is more smarter than shikamaru. And there are certain things /stuff that shows shikamaru is unable to used his amazing IQ.

Shikaku and shikamaru, despite of their amazing IQ /brain, they're still incapable to create a powerful jutsu/sealing jutsu on their own. That's what I'm saying. They're not the best of the best of everything. they're just a great thinkers and a great strategist.

[gnut]

we know what sakura really wants....

some gangnam

[Uchiha_Blood]

As M3J said, this is a thread about Sakura, not Shikamaru.
So, unless its a comparison between the two, Shikamaru talk needs to be moved to another thread

we know what sakura really wants....

some gangnam

Can I tell what I thought when I read "we know what Sakura really wants"?