Hashirama Senju's Gauntlet

[xXan]

@Uchiha_Blood

Emm Nagato got hit and that would be a fatal wound but he was an EDO... That saved his life... Kisame was a mortal wound after putting Samehada in front of himself to take the blunt of the attack... You can imagine what that attack would do to a living cripple like Nagato... Kisame's flesh and has good durability compared to other ninja.
Then he absorbed Bee's chakra that ended up restoring his form. This is so irrelevant as feats go.... The only factor here is the speed at what Nagato can drain chakra... No other feats...

Then the only thing that got owned was a Bee that just jumped at him with his swords... Then Nagato GRABED him...I mean seriously...

Now don't get me wrong fighting off Naruto and Bee (even the way they where fighting) was impresive but nothing to save him from Madara.

Also i don't get what A has to do with anything? That was not the light speed attack i was refering to... Raikage is defenetly not light speed.. Madara reacted and countered someone poping in his face at lightspeed. Also A can't beat the big boys true BUT his speed is still the best (well aside Naruto i gues).

As for the genjutsu i was not refering to 1 shoot him and Nagato goes down... Use genjutsu to make an opening (1-2 seconds) and then stab him with that sword of his.
We already know that genjutsu WORK on people with sharingan. Those are not really effective but still. Nobody is really immune to genjutsu.

I don't even remember the wind jutsu he used as a kid, can you link me?

His rockets and lasers are nothing to Madara... He can block(fan) or dodge them easy.

Anyway read what i edited in. Nagato can't win considering Madara has that broken fan of his.

[Hakuteiken]

@Hakuteiken

Elemental attack... Can you list the elemental attacks he used? I hope you are not going to give him any element attacks you can think of just because he has the rinnegan... Same thing with Kakashi and his elemental afinities. Just because he aparently knows 1000 of them it does not mean we can use more then what he showed in the manga.

I will, since that's confirmed. It's like not giving Tobirama S/T in a battle since he didn't show it. A pathetic way to elaborate a hypothetical fight for me, to be honest.

[NinjaStar]

@NinjaStar



Huh? Even that ultimate Susano and Naruto could handle in SM alone... He can grab it with his bare hands and smash it about... He was able to do that to KURAMA.
Then the bijudama that was = to something put togeder by 5 other bijus? Something the size of half of Konoha? Yerah Madara (EMS) get's turned to pasta.

Hashirama himself would lose. Naruto can create an ARMY of hokage level clones (actualy above) then he has SM, then he has super genjutsu (Ma/Pa) then he can summon an army of frogs...
Even that wood dragon was defeated. All Naruto had to do is lose some chakra and turn it into a bloody tree.
Naruto has better regen (with feats) then Hashirama. He can instantly heal holes in his chest the size of your fist.
The fastest man in the manga. Greater speed then Raikage that in turned made Minato into a statue (ignoring his ability to teleport)... Then that was chakra mode lvl 1... The second form repealed multiple bijudamas with his speed allone...

Yeah Hashirama would be a good fight but i don't see him winning.

IIRC the only reason Naruto was able to get in that close to Kurama was a combination of Kushina's chains and Naruto clone diversions. Kurama was so busy being worried by the dozens of clones that could enter sage mode mid attack(something that can't happen in the real world) that he forgot about the chains and he eventually was thrown by Naruto. That won't happen to Madara because Madara has EMS and can keep track of clones and even find the real one. No sage mode clone is surviving or dodging one of his sword swings. And just like how Amaterasu doesn't affect Bijuu mode Naruto, throwing perfect Susanoo won't do anything. It isn't a sentient being like Kurama was in the mind fight. He is just chakra armor. Getting thrown won't do anything unless Madara feels the pain, which won't happen because well....he has susanoo up. And if you had any delusions about this the 5 kage>>>>sage naruto.

As for the bijuu dama; we don't know what happens because it ended on a cliff hanger but Madara just tanked a bijuu dama from a full powered Kurama. It might not have been powered up all the way but neither is the perfect susanoo. So good luck finding anybody that agrees with you on Naruto turning madara into pasta lol.

Hashirma:

Naruto canonically created 12 clones(13 including himself) and by the time Naruto arrived to help gaara out only 7 of the clones were accounted for(8 including himself). So we know for a fact that 8 Naruto's are kage level but thats hardly an army. Idk what happened too the other 5 but since neither of use can prove it we should just let them go. That army of clones get killed by the pollen or by Hashirama's equally impressive "army" of clones. And what do you mean the dragon was defeated? It defeated Naruto not the other way around. The dragon only needs to come out if naruto enters bijuu mode, every time he goes bijuu the dragon will come back. Sage mode is not on the level to compete with hashirama and the likes. That army of frogs gets destroyed because 5 kages> army of frogs. I will give you the frog song though. What do you mean he has better regeneration feats than Hashi? We use tsuande's feats and she had two swords put completely through her. She is currently split in half and she is still kicking...well not literally but you know. Hashi can do all that and more considering he doesn't have to store chakra for it. Speed means nothing if he can't get near hashirama. Hashi has Naruto's weakness...tree roots. Good luck using that speed to the fullest.

And Nagato might lose to Madara but its not because of the fan He can just BT it instead of ST'ing it. Or nagato can just aim at Madara specifically. He has shown that he can pinpoint what he wants to hit. Or how would madara even know that ST is coming? You can't see it, otherwise Kakashi would have seen it.

[xXan]

@NinjaStar

IIRC the only reason Naruto was able to get in that close to Kurama was a combination of Kushina's chains and Naruto clone diversions. Kurama was so busy being worried by the dozens of clones that could enter sage mode mid attack(something that can't happen in the real world) that he forgot about the chains and he eventually was thrown by Naruto.

I think you need to read that fight again lol...

First off no chains where present... Kushina was showed only AFTER said event...
Then the clones entering SM in the middle of an attack happend LATER...

Again read the fight again...

Naruto using clones as diversions is irrelevant to the fact that he is able to trow around Kurama like a puppet with his bare hands... Oh and belive it or not Naruto could use clones vs Madara to... Madara has NO magic to stop him from using clones... So i don't see how its relevant the fact that Naruto used clones to get in close...
Oh and Naruto could enter in SM by blinking so that can happen in real life to.

That won't happen to Madara because Madara has EMS and can keep track of clones and even find the real one. No sage mode clone is surviving or dodging one of his sword swings.

Madara does not have eyes behind his bloody head AND him standing inside that huge ass Susano is not going to stop Naruto from getting in close... Kurama was DAMN FAST even for SM Naruto... Perfect Susano is not showed ANYWHERE as super fast...

Naruto getting close (in SM) to Perfect Susano is easy as pie... Just look at how he owned Robot Realm before anybody knew what is happening...

Oh and no need to survive a sword swing... Just dodge it..

and just like how Amaterasu doesn't affect Bijuu mode Naruto, throwing perfect Susanoo won't do anything. It isn't a sentient being like Kurama was in the mind fight. He is just chakra armor. Getting thrown won't do anything unless Madara feels the pain, which won't happen because well....he has susanoo up. And if you had any delusions about this the 5 kage>>>>sage naruto.

That chakra monster needs chakra to keep up... If you damage it Madara ends up losing chakra man... Also its not just about smashing it into the ground... Its smash it into the ground and then provide some 3 FRS in its face as Madara is on the ground bussy getting up...

Oh and if you have any delusions about this its RINNEGAN, IMMORTAL, PRIME VERSION, UNLIMITED CHAKRA Madara >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 kages.... Yeah Perfect Susano would kill all the kages just as well but still...
Then this is not JUST SM Naruto its chakra mode + SM Naruto... Curent version is so above the Kages its not even funny... He would completly stomp them.

As for the bijuu dama; we don't know what happens because it ended on a cliff hanger but Madara just tanked a bijuu dama from a full powered Kurama. It might not have been powered up all the way but neither is the perfect susanoo. So good luck finding anybody that agrees with you on Naruto turning madara into pasta lol.

You don't need to know anything... It was as powerfull as the bijudama put togeder from 5 other bijus... The 8 tails itself could not belive how powerfull it was...

Oh and i asume you are refering to this with the tanking part:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/620/16
That is not THIS:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/571/12
This bijudama DWARFS all the 5 BIJUS put TOGEDER...

Naruto canonically created 12 clones(13 including himself) and by the time Naruto arrived to help gaara out only 7 of the clones were accounted for(8 including himself). So we know for a fact that 8 Naruto's are kage level but thats hardly an army. Idk what happened too the other 5 but since neither of use can prove it we should just let them go.

Emm that was before JOINING FORCES with Kurama... Now he is powering the entire army with super powers from Kurama... That number goes way up man... Then add to it SM clones that he can create just about over 100 and see where you get...

That army of clones get killed by the pollen or by Hashirama's equally impressive "army" of clones.

The pollen is USLESS vs Naruto... You can fight that thing off with PURE WILLPOWER. Gues what Naruto has the most out of ALL the people in this manga... Yeah the guts to never give up. He has a lot more willpower then Tsuck... He would 1 shoot the entire flower creap... Hell even if he falls off Kurama from inside is going to take charge and use chakra body parts to move the clones and do battle.

As for clones... That was Madara with infinite chakra using them... Yeah Hashirama probably can make a good deal of them but not ANYWHERE close to Naruto. Well unless you can provide evidence of it.

And what do you mean the dragon was defeated? It defeated Naruto not the other way around. The dragon only needs to come out if naruto enters bijuu mode, every time he goes bijuu the dragon will come back.

Lol the dragon turned into a tree man. That is what happends to Mokuton when is getting into contact with CURENT Kurama chakra... Not only that Naruto can use clones to fight the dragon off as he is in Kurama mode going after Hashirama.. The clones in SM and chakra mode going with huge Rasengans would have no problem holding that dragong off.

Sage mode is not on the level to compete with hashirama and the likes.

Then its a good thing i was not using SM only Naruto vs Hashirama... Its curent Naruto vs Hashirama...

That army of frogs gets destroyed because 5 kages> army of frogs.

Those 5 Kages have huge aoe from Tsuck. Its not the same thing... It adds to Naruto's clones, Naruto himself and so on... Having huge ass frogs going for Hashirama and then Naruto himself with clones its going to be hell to fight off...

What do you mean he has better regeneration feats than Hashi?

Because he showed better regen then him... Simple. Of course you are free to provide his feats.

We use tsuande's feats and she had two swords put completely through her. She is currently split in half and she is still kicking...well not literally but you know.

No you can't do that. Nobody made ANY claims Hashirama has regen like that. Hashirama just has the ability to heal with no handseals... Nothing more then that was sugested.

Hashi can do all that and more considering he doesn't have to store chakra for it.

Not that is worse as Hashirma would waste a lot of chakra to heal himself when Tsunade just has it stored and does not end up using a drop of chakra.

Speed means nothing if he can't get near hashirama.

And why would he not be able to? His shunshin is faster then a sharingan(well at least Kakashi's) can keep up (when the plot allows it....).

Hashi has Naruto's weakness...tree roots. Good luck using that speed to the fullest.

Yes he got tricked once when he was using his casual speed so let's asume him tripping over roots its his weakness... Seriously now..

And Nagato might lose to Madara but its not because of the fan He can just BT it instead of ST'ing it. Or nagato can just aim at Madara specifically. He has shown that he can pinpoint what he wants to hit. Or how would madara even know that ST is coming? You can't see it, otherwise Kakashi would have seen it.

Oh that is a great idea. Let's BT Madara and get him close to me so he has a good time claving me in half lol.... If Madara get's close Nagato is dead meat. Kakashi had enough time to pull a chain and trow it to stop his movement... You can imagine what Madara has time to do.

Any force sent from ST propagates from Nagato's possition and then hits its target. If the fan is in the way then Nagato is going to be sent flying back just like 6 tails Naruto did to Deva... He can pinpoint it but its still travels from Nagato's position and the fan can be used to block it easy.

Oh and how would Madara know? He does not need to know... He just needs to charge in with his fan in front of himself... Or i gues he needs to react after the ground next to Nagato starts to brake and considering he can act before he get's hit by someone poping from LIGHTSPEED in his face i gues he can do this just as well.... Hell just summon ribbets only Susano for protection as that can be done faster then a lighting bolt hits the ground...

[Uchiha_Blood]

@Uchiha_Blood

Emm Nagato got hit and that would be a fatal wound but he was an EDO... That saved his life... Kisame was a mortal wound after putting Samehada in front of himself to take the blunt of the attack... You can imagine what that attack would do to a living cripple like Nagato... Kisame's flesh and has good durability compared to other ninja.
Then he absorbed Bee's chakra that ended up restoring his form. This is so irrelevant as feats go.... The only factor here is the speed at what Nagato can drain chakra... No other feats...

Then the only thing that got owned was a Bee that just jumped at him with his swords... Then Nagato GRABED him...I mean seriously...

Now don't get me wrong fighting off Naruto and Bee (even the way they where fighting) was impresive but nothing to save him from Madara.

Also i don't get what A has to do with anything? That was not the light speed attack i was refering to... Raikage is defenetly not light speed.. Madara reacted and countered someone poping in his face at lightspeed. Also A can't beat the big boys true BUT his speed is still the best (well aside Naruto i gues).

As for the genjutsu i was not refering to 1 shoot him and Nagato goes down... Use genjutsu to make an opening (1-2 seconds) and then stab him with that sword of his.
We already know that genjutsu WORK on people with sharingan. Those are not really effective but still. Nobody is really immune to genjutsu.

I don't even remember the wind jutsu he used as a kid, can you link me?

His rockets and lasers are nothing to Madara... He can block(fan) or dodge them easy.

Anyway read what i edited in. Nagato can't win considering Madara has that broken fan of his.

Considering we didn't see Nagato damaged by Bee, we can assume that attack did nothing
Usually when an Edo is damaged dust, or whatever that thing is flies in the air, and you see the damaged part. Nagato had nothing on the sort from what I can remember.

If it wasn't A, who was that moved at "light-speed"?
The only one who comes to mind is Bijuu Mode Naruto, but he didn't attack Madara, but blocked his attack.

Sure

Here you go

[LnDRash]

If it wasn't A, who was that moved at "light-speed"?
The only one who comes to mind is Bijuu Mode Naruto, but he didn't attack Madara, but blocked his attack. Here you go

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c562/15.html

He's probably talking about this. Raikage and Tsunade where propelled at lightspeed right into the fray by Mabui. This is a little incorrect however, since if you look at the page before Madara and Kabu-Mu got a forewarning by a sudden flash of light, which also means the lightspeed movement has ceased at that point, otherwise it would have turned into a infinite mass punch... and I doubt even Madara can block something like that

[xXan]

Considering we didn't see Nagato damaged by Bee, we can assume that attack did nothing
Usually when an Edo is damaged dust, or whatever that thing is flies in the air, and you see the damaged part. Nagato had nothing on the sort from what I can remember.

If it wasn't A, who was that moved at "light-speed"?
The only one who comes to mind is Bijuu Mode Naruto, but he didn't attack Madara, but blocked his attack.

Sure

Here you go

You did not see him damaged as Bee was covering the hit area. Kisame himself was not showed as injured to the point he landed. Now before Nagato was on the floor showing the damage he already regened because he just ATE the 8 tails chakra...
Anyway i hope you don't belive Nagato's flesh has greater durability then that of Kisame+Samehada...

If it wasn't A, who was that moved at "light-speed"?
The only one who comes to mind is Bijuu Mode Naruto, but he didn't attack Madara, but blocked his attack.

Tsunade... Here:
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Yeah its what was linked above.

Oh and thx for the link.

@LnDRash

Muu got hit. Only Madara blocked. What the IMP would have done... Well Madara can block it because Tsunade can aparently take the friction and not damage ANYTHING as she is moving at the speed of light... Also somehow one can muster enough energy to move an object at the speed of light in that universe... Then asuming Tsunade stopped her inertia instantly (from the speed of light) makes as much sense as hitting Madara at the speed of light (what this would do to her boddy).

Anyway flash of light or not those 2 "teleported" in his face and Madara was able to block.

Personaly i don't belive they stopped as the flash of light is how they looked when they where sent flying and only when't "normal" looking when the impact happened. The flash of light was not the indication of them stopping. Its them coming Madara's way. They where sent as 2 flashing lights.

[Uchiha_Blood]

You did not see him damaged as Bee was covering the hit area. Kisame himself was not showed as injured to the point he landed. Now before Nagato was on the floor showing the damage he already regened because he just ATE the 8 tails chakra...
Anyway i hope you don't belive Nagato's flesh has greater durability then that of Kisame+Samehada...

You don't see dust flying here, nor here, not even his clothes are damaged

Tsunade... Here:
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Yeah its what was linked above.

Oh and thx for the link.

No problem

As LnDRash said, they had a flash forewarning that hit, to the point Madara had the time to look surprised.
While the speed was impressive, it was hardly lightspeed, as again LnDRash so well pointed out

[xXan]

@Uchiha_Blood

You don't see dust flying here, nor here, not even his clothes are damaged

Same thing for Kisame... Did you see his costume getting ripped up or whatever?(before he landed) There is NO way Nagato has more durability (flesh) then Kisame... I mean Deva got put down by a Rasengan. Exploding tags on Nagato's leg's did damage...
Only diference is that vs Kisame Bee also had his bone bull thing BUT he also had to "dig" his way trough Samehada making a HOLE in it... Now unless you are telling me Nagato is leaps and bounds in durability above Kisame this is not going to fly... Also just because we did not see crep flying around does not mean anything. The speed could be to great for it to have time to happen OR it was stuck between Bee's hand and the rest of Nagato's body.

As LnDRash said, they had a flash forewarning that hit, to the point Madara had the time to look surprised.
While the speed was impressive, it was hardly lightspeed, as again LnDRash so well pointed out

That was no diferent then you noticing a light bulb turning on from the light that get's to you eyes. The "light" was them moving at the speed of lighting and impacting them. The "light" could be seen as they where sent flying of by that babe.
The light was not present before they got there, the light WAS them moving at light speed.

In short he is mistaken. The light is not a warning and its not a sign of them stopping. The light is THEM moving at light speed. As i said above you can see that light as they are sent off.
here:
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/11

Even on this page they still have the light around them (top panel):
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

They impact when they where still in "light mode". AKA they where still in the "speed force". No other reason that i can see for Kishi to depict them with said light around them if they already dropped out of that speed thing.

EDIT: I know it makes no bloody sense to react even to the light before they got there even asuming they slowed down before getting noticed. The human eye does not work anywhere close to that fast(or the brain)... Hell Muu should not have time to put his arms up... But its a damn manga.

[LnDRash]

@LnDRash

Muu got hit. Only Madara blocked. What the IMP would have done... Well Madara can block it because Tsunade can aparently take the friction and not damage ANYTHING as she is moving at the speed of light... Also somehow one can muster enough energy to move an object at the speed of light in that universe... Then asuming Tsunade stopped her inertia instantly (from the speed of light) makes as much sense as hitting Madara at the speed of light (what this would do to her boddy).

Anyway flash of light or not those 2 "teleported" in his face and Madara was able to block.

Personaly i don't belive they stopped as the flash of light is how they looked when they where sent flying and only when't "normal" looking when the impact happened. The flash of light was not the indication of them stopping. Its them coming Madara's way. They where sent as 2 flashing lights.

Manga...

Logically they wouldn't have survived being launched at light speed to begin with, so thinking about what the abrupt deceleration would do to them is completely useless.

Want proof they stoped? Look here:

http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c529/8.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c529/9.html

The gourd didn't smash into the ground like an artillery round, its standing there just like if someone placed it there.

Also, if Tsunade and Raikage where still moving at light speed when they attacked Madara and Muu, Kishi most likely would have drawn them as blurrs.

I know it makes no bloody sense to react even to the light before they got there even asuming they slowed down before getting noticed. The human eye does not work anywhere close to that fast(or the brain)...

Thats why Muu got hit and Mister Etournail Man-Gay-Ki-Yo Sharingan was able to block.

[xXan]

@LnDRash

Logically they wouldn't have survived being launched at light speed to begin with, so thinking about what the abrupt deceleration would do to them is completely useless.

Well yes you have multiple problems there.. But that is why i was stating "its a manga" to the IMP (like flash).

Wan't proof they stoped? Look here:

http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c529/8.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v56/c529/9.html

The gourd didn't smash into the ground like an artillery round, its standing there just like if someone placed it there.

And Tsunade hitting Raikage at the speed of light did nothing that an object traveling at that speed would do :P Hell even asuming they slowed down to 10% the speed of light... Hell imagine even the shockwave that would be created from having those 2 traveling at the speed of light. Them slowing down right before Madara and Muu would not really be relevant as the floowing "sonic boom" would be enough to devastate the area :P
As i said its a manga. The point was the "light" was not a warning. It was THEM getting there. The light did not happen before they arived but it was them ariving there at the speed of light.

Also, if Tsunade and Raikage where still moving at light speed when they attacked Madara and Muu, Kishi most likely would have drawn them as blurrs.

Don't think so. We had Naruto dodging Raikage and we had no "blur". Same for Raikage almost hitting Minato. The moment of contact is not blurred so we know what is going on.

Thats why Muu got hit and Mister Etournail Man-Gay-Ki-Yo Sharingan was able to block.

Because Madara could react (somehow) to it. Makes no sense but there you have it. That is what Hashirama super DNA+ sharingan+rinnegan can do...

[Uchiha_Blood]

I'm leaving the "lightspeed" argument in the incredibly capable hands of mr. LnDRash

@Uchiha_Blood

Same thing for Kisame... Did you see his costume getting ripped up or whatever?(before he landed) There is NO way Nagato has more durability (flesh) then Kisame... I mean Deva got put down by a Rasengan. Exploding tags on Nagato's leg's did damage...
Only diference is that vs Kisame Bee also had his bone bull thing BUT he also had to "dig" his way trough Samehada making a HOLE in it... Now unless you are telling me Nagato is leaps and bounds in durability above Kisame this is not going to fly... Also just because we did not see crep flying around does not mean anything. The speed could be to great for it to have time to happen OR it was stuck between Bee's hand and the rest of Nagato's body.

Imo he simply nullified the damage since he blocked it while absorbing, considering he can manipulate at will gravity he may have created an equal force ( considering Nagato's strenght, it isn't far-fetched to believe he could easily match Bee in power ) all the while absorbing the damage with Preta Path.
Or he strenghtened his body with Asura Realm, I don't know.
Point being Nagato trashed Bee regardless, the guy was toying with Bee and Naruto at the same time despite Kabuto's inability to exploit his abilities to the maximum and his own mobility handicap if he did so with Preta, natural abilities, Asura powers or Deva powers its up to Kishi or our own interpretation of what happened

[xXan]

@Uchiha_Blood

You had impact there. Nagato's body possition and how he was traveling back on Bee's arm proves the impact existed. The absorbing also did not happen instantly. He activated it after(clearly stated in the manga). Once it was activated you could clearly see the chakra getting removed from Bee. Not only that but ST was just used so it was on CD... No ST or BT at that point... Nothing to create the "buffer" as you put it.

He also stated when using diferent realms or diferent abilities. He said(well in his mind) NOTHING there.

I mean seriously if you DON"T see the impact here...
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550/16
Look at the hit mark, the way Nagato's body is possitoned and how Bee inertia is moving himself and Nagato. Not only that the aborbing ability was CLEARLY activated after... Look at what he states there.

At ALL points after losing his brain he is calling out what he is using:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550/17
Robot stuff:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/551/6
Naraka path:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/551/3

He did nothing there. He got hit and then fixed himself by draining Bee. Perhaps he would end up healed after said impact in real life to but the injury would most defenetly be there(to the point he would be healed if he could be healed obviously)...

[Naruto2011]

Hashi stomps and stomps hard