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Thread: Was things really necessary?

  1. #136
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    He doesn't have to know about the Kyuubi to be in control, otherwise he'd have kept attacking Haku even after seeing his face.
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  2. #137
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    ^ Did he know he went through a transitional state? He didn't even know how he over-came Haku's technique. It is obvious he was never in control.

  3. #138
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Makes no sense since Naruto stopped attacking Haku by his own volition after seeing his face. Naruto probably didn't know how he was able to get the power to beat Haku's technique, but if Naruto was never in control, then he'd have kept hitting Haku, he wouldn't have stopped.
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  4. #139
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Sharingan became a joke to me when it became something spammable. It was fine when there was a drawback (going blind). Hell, give it all the abilities you want to, but there has to be a drawback. Even for Naruto using the Kyuubi, there were drawbacks. Sudden regeneration that could end up causing worse damage down the line. Loss of control and hurting friends. Accidentally letting loose the Kyuubi when it wasn't all 'paws up, rub mah belleh'. Any ability that is given that has no drawback makes for crap storytelling IMO. Hell, even basic abilities have drawbacks in the form of possible chakra deprevation resulting in severe illness or even death.

  5. #140
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: was this really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I think the problem here is everyone thinks that the Sharingan, in the way it was first introduced to us, is the "original" Sharingan and that it was never meant to be as powerful as it is now. That it's current power is "wrong" or even untruthful to the original canon. And I'd just like to know how the heck they came to that conclusion.
    Balance of power within the narrative is why its wrong. Just because it got this backstory about being descendent of some legendary Jesus-figure, doesn't make it's slow but steady imbalance of power any less lame. It extends from the same reason that everyone is pissed about "Hashirama cells solve everything!"

    This story used to be about making the best out of what you have. Not learning that what you already had was better than anybody else in the entire world. That's kind of the opposite of the whole 'fighting fate' thing.

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  7. #141
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Makes no sense since Naruto stopped attacking Haku by his own volition after seeing his face. Naruto probably didn't know how he was able to get the power to beat Haku's technique, but if Naruto was never in control, then he'd have kept hitting Haku, he wouldn't have stopped.
    I already gave an answer to this.

  8. #142
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    Re: was this really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    Balance of power within the narrative is why its wrong. Just because it got this backstory about being descendent of some legendary Jesus-figure, doesn't make it's slow but steady imbalance of power any less lame. It extends from the same reason that everyone is pissed about "Hashirama cells solve everything!"

    This story used to be about making the best out of what you have. Not learning that what you already had was better than anybody else in the entire world. That's kind of the opposite of the whole 'fighting fate' thing.
    How does that apply to the Sharingan, which was established as belonging to a well-noted clan in the beginning? Aside from the Rinnegan being added as another possible evolution, nothing about the Uchiha clan has been affected by the introduction of the whole Rikudou Sennin plot.

    The whole fighting fate and suddenly learning you're destined to be better then everyone else thing really only applies to Naruto.

  9. #143
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    Re: was this really needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    How does that apply to the Sharingan, which was established as belonging to a well-noted clan in the beginning? Aside from the Rinnegan being added as another possible evolution, nothing about the Uchiha clan has been affected by the introduction of the whole Rikudou Sennin plot.

    The whole fighting fate and suddenly learning you're destined to be better then everyone else thing really only applies to Naruto.
    *coughcough* Izanagi and Izanami *coughcough*

  10. #144
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    I don't know, wasn't Izanagi introduced before... Anyway, I should clarify. I meant that nothing "concerning fate or them being superior to everyone else" was introduced due to their connection with the Rikudou Sennin. That was already an established fact/opinion. The Senju and Uzumaki clans were really the ones elevated by that whole introduction.

  11. #145
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by shahdan View Post
    I already gave an answer to this.
    The answer doesn't work for me, though.
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  12. #146
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I don't know, wasn't Izanagi introduced before... Anyway, I should clarify. I meant that nothing "concerning fate or them being superior to everyone else" was introduced due to their connection with the Rikudou Sennin. That was already an established fact/opinion. The Senju and Uzumaki clans were really the ones elevated by that whole introduction.
    Uchihas being superior to other clans was a Rikudou thing, since until then the manga told us Hyuugas > Uchihas in standing, and Hyuuga >= Uchihas in power

  13. #147
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Uchihas being superior to other clans was a Rikudou thing, since until then the manga told us Hyuugas > Uchihas in standing, and Hyuuga >= Uchihas in power
    back then kakashi even didn't belive in Rickodo ... and if I remember he said " some people think uchihas come from Hyuga clan ... " ... so it was a myth .... not a truth ...
    خداحافظ

  14. #148
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    ^ But not until the whole Rikudou Sennin came up we had any reason to believe Kakashi was mistaken

  15. #149
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Uchihas being superior to other clans was a Rikudou thing, since until then the manga told us Hyuugas > Uchihas in standing, and Hyuuga >= Uchihas in power
    I don't recall that. I know the Hyuuga clan was praised as Konoha's strongest clan, but that was well after we had learnt about the Uchiha clan being wiped out. And we had the Uchiha clan praised throughout Part One, such as by Lee during the Chuunin Exam and up into the massacre flashback. Both were also referred to as one of Konoha's noble clans, though the treatment of the other two clans on that list makes it not mean all that much I suppose.

    Of course, I'm not discounting the fact that the Hyuuga clan clearly had superior taijutsu then the Uchiha clan. I believe their taijutsu strength was mentioned somewhere.

  16. #150
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    Re: Was things really necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    ^ But not until the whole Rikudou Sennin came up we had any reason to believe Kakashi was mistaken
    Actually, we did have reason to believe Kakashi could ahve been wrong. He didn't state anyhting as a fact, he merely said it was a rumor or that there was a possibility. He never said anything like Uchiha descending from Hyuuga or Sharingan descending from Byakugan definitely happened. Plus, nothing disproves Kakashi until it's confirmed that Hyuuga is not related to Rikudou Sennin at all. For all we know, Byakugan was the original eyes, which then mutated into Sharingan.

    I mean, if you see Byakugan activated, there's a small ring near the pupil. When Sharingan is activated, whether regular or Mangekyo or even Eternal Mangekyo, there's a ring further away from the pupil, which could be two ripples from the Rinnegan. So far, it's not farfetched to assume Uchiha did descend from Hyuuga or that Hyuuga is part of Rikudou Sennin's lineage. Other than Hyuuga not getting any focus at all....

    -_-

    Fuck.
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