Madara can not use infinite Tsukuyomi?

[zimbardo]

As far as I see it, being a free-willed ET ninja seems to be massively advantageous to Madara than being a living breathing ninja.
Madara already knew of the ET ritual, so it was well within his abilities to teach that to Obito.
Is it possible that Madara wanted to be brought back by the rinnengan techniques because otherwise there was no way that he could become the 10 tails jinchurichi?
Perhaps ET ninjas can not change - and will forever remain at the condition that they were brought back at. Therefore, this would stop him being able to become the host to the 10 tails. Therefore, he would not have the ability for his IT technique.
This means that Madara is entirely in the palm of Obito's hand, even though he is much more powerful.

[M3J]

There could be a way to bypass the whole ET not bein able to change. I think do what Tobi did to the jinchuuriki and use the chakra rod to temporarily give Madara all the chakra he needs.

[Suzaku]

As far as I see it, being a free-willed ET ninja seems to be massively advantageous to Madara than being a living breathing ninja.
Madara already knew of the ET ritual, so it was well within his abilities to teach that to Obito.
Is it possible that Madara wanted to be brought back by the rinnengan techniques because otherwise there was no way that he could become the 10 tails jinchurichi?
Perhaps ET ninjas can not change - and will forever remain at the condition that they were brought back at. Therefore, this would stop him being able to become the host to the 10 tails. Therefore, he would not have the ability for his IT technique.
This means that Madara is entirely in the palm of Obito's hand, even though he is much more powerful.

Don't think so. Obito's Six Paths of Pain were transformed back into jinchuuriki even though the tailed beasts had been removed from them before they died. So there doesn't seem to be anything that would prevent a reanimated shinobi from becoming a jinchuuriki.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Madara knew how to cancel or resist the effects of Edo Tensei, but probably didn't know the inner workings of the technique, and didn't consider being revived through it to be ideal (it's worth noting that Kabuto has "perfected" the technique far beyond what would've been possible in Madara's time, and I assume that modifications, such as the introduction of Senju cells, were probably not possible either).

If I had to speculate further, I'd say that he and/or Izuna probably did battle with Tobirama enough to learn how to deal with the technique. In fact, one theory I had was that Tobirama actually used it to reincarnate Izuna, of all people, because beyond the Uchiha and Senju brotherse themselves there aren't any impressive (or dramatic) candidates from that time that we've actually heard of. I like to imagine that Izuna was reincarnated and actually broke free of Tobirama's control, and went after Madara personally (revenge for fraticide and eye theft).

[zimbardo]

Don't think so. Obito's Six Paths of Pain were transformed back into jinchuuriki even though the tailed beasts had been removed from them before they died. So there doesn't seem to be anything that would prevent a reanimated shinobi from becoming a jinchuuriki.

True, but they didn't have the tailed beasts put back into them, therefore it is not the same as Madara wants. They were brought back at the peak of their power, when they had the tailed beasts, they did not gain any more power following resurrection - or perhaps brought back even stronger, just like Madara.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Madara knew how to cancel or resist the effects of Edo Tensei, but probably didn't know the inner workings of the technique, and didn't consider being revived through it to be ideal (it's worth noting that Kabuto has "perfected" the technique far beyond what would've been possible in Madara's time, and I assume that modifications, such as the introduction of Senju cells, were probably not possible either).

If I had to speculate further, I'd say that he and/or Izuna probably did battle with Tobirama enough to learn how to deal with the technique. In fact, one theory I had was that Tobirama actually used it to reincarnate Izuna, of all people, because beyond the Uchiha and Senju brotherse themselves there aren't any impressive (or dramatic) candidates from that time that we've actually heard of. I like to imagine that Izuna was reincarnated and actually broke free of Tobirama's control, and went after Madara personally (revenge for fraticide and eye theft).

That would be awesome - but I think it is not likely. Especially as an Izuna that hated Madara would be highly unlikely to tell him how to escape the technique...

There could be a way to bypass the whole ET not bein able to change. I think do what Tobi did to the jinchuuriki and use the chakra rod to temporarily give Madara all the chakra he needs.

Which still put him under Obito. Can you link me the jinchurichi getting extra power (more than their tailed beasts gave them in life) from the rods? Also, this is working similar to the 6 paths technique. I am not sure of the possibility of doing this for Madara.

[M3J]

I'm not sure if they got extra power, but they definitely got the bijuu's power without becoming a jinchuuriki again. I think this is the six paths technique. Dunno why it wouldn't work for Madara since it worked for the jinchuuriki as well.

[zimbardo]

I'm not sure if they got extra power, but they definitely got the bijuu's power without becoming a jinchuuriki again. I think this is the six paths technique. Dunno why it wouldn't work for Madara since it worked for the jinchuuriki as well.

I always thought that they got the biju power as they had that in life. Just like the kin gin brothers got the kyuubi power also. Had Gaara died fighting Naruto, then an ET Gaara would have had the one tails powers even if the one tails had not been trapped in the mazou for example.
The connection to the bijuu through the rods (connecting to the Mazou) that Naruto experienced may just be a quirk of the technique (6 paths one) and the nature of the bijuu connecting him directly to their souls or something?!?

[M3J]

No, I think Goku himself stated the stake/rod was the reason why he was in his jinchuuriki's body, if I recall. I posted the link in the Chapter Discussion, maybe you might have a different or more correct interpretation than I did.

[pera2]

good inspection. Now question is why Madara died at all? He could have him self ETed by someone, and work with Obito all the time. For example, Oro worked for Akatsuki/Obito for some time, he could ET Madara and have him included in the game of collecting bijus.

---------- Post added at 05:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 AM ----------

But Madara definitely didn't planed to be ET, but revived properly, so theres a good question why? What is his 'weakness' in ET mode?

[Uchiha_Blood]

good inspection. Now question is why Madara died at all? He could have him self ETed by someone, and work with Obito all the time. For example, Oro worked for Akatsuki/Obito for some time, he could ET Madara and have him included in the game of collecting bijus.

---------- Post added at 05:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 AM ----------

But Madara definitely didn't planed to be ET, but revived properly, so theres a good question why? What is his 'weakness' in ET mode?

Simple, if he died and then revived he would be an old man.
Kabuto, and Kabuto only had the capacities to resurrect him into his prime, modifying and improving his body.
Let's not forget that Edo Tensei revives you on the time of your death, and seeing as Madara awakened the Rin'negan only as an old man, it was disadvantegous either way:

-if he killed himself when he was young, he would have "only" EMS, and the whole plan wouldn't even exist, since he wouldn't have neither the Rin'negan nor Gedo Mazo.
-if he killed himself when he was old, he would have the Rin'negan and Gedo Mazo, but he would have a weak body and probably a way smaller chakra pool as well.

[pera2]

Simple, if he died and then revived he would be an old man.
Kabuto, and Kabuto only had the capacities to resurrect him into his prime, modifying and improving his body.
Let's not forget that Edo Tensei revives you on the time of your death, and seeing as Madara awakened the Rin'negan only as an old man, it was disadvantegous either way:

-if he killed himself when he was young, he would have "only" EMS, and the whole plan wouldn't even exist, since he wouldn't have neither the Rin'negan nor Gedo Mazo.
-if he killed himself when he was old, he would have the Rin'negan and Gedo Mazo, but he would have a weak body and probably a way smaller chakra pool as well.

oh yes, right.

[zimbardo]

I wonder what the time window around 'time of death' actually is. Would be a strange technique to resurrect (and maintain) ninjas with missing limbs, heads, and holes in their stomachs.

Good point though...

That said, has it been stated that the Outer parh: Samsara of Heavenly Light actually has the ability to bring Madara back to how he is as an ET (Young body + Rinnengan)? It seemed to just send the souls back to the bodies that they came from...
This opens up a whole different can of worms as to why Nagato didn't use it on his buddy (not the dog - Yahiko!), but I guess that is topic for another thread.

I still am not sure it is so simple as you made it out to be though.

[Uchiha_Blood]

I wonder what the time window around 'time of death' actually is. Would be a strange technique to resurrect (and maintain) ninjas with missing limbs, heads, and holes in their stomachs.

Good point though...

That said, has it been stated that the Outer parh: Samsara of Heavenly Light actually has the ability to bring Madara back to how he is as an ET (Young body + Rinnengan)? It seemed to just send the souls back to the bodies that they came from...
This opens up a whole different can of worms as to why Nagato didn't use it on his buddy (not the dog - Yahiko!), but I guess that is topic for another thread.

I still am not sure it is so simple as you made it out to be though.

This is one of the biggest plot holes Kishi still hasn't answered to.

We know Madara and Obito intended for Nagato to use Gedo Rinne for Madara and resurrect him, presumably at his best shape.
If this was such a convenient jutsu however why wouldn't Nagato revive Yahiko? Or Obito Rin?
Why would Nagato wait "for the right time"?

My theory is that Gedo Rinne requires the more chakra the longer the body died, meaning Nagato would probably kill himself trying to resurrect Yahiko. Probably Nagato would kill himself to resurrect Madara ( maybe aided by the Bijuu's chakra ), and probably would either when all Bijuus would be under him, or when the Juubi would be resurrected.

[jalix]

Don't think so. Obito's Six Paths of Pain were transformed back into jinchuuriki even though the tailed beasts had been removed from them before they died. So there doesn't seem to be anything that would prevent a reanimated shinobi from becoming a jinchuuriki.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Madara knew how to cancel or resist the effects of Edo Tensei, but probably didn't know the inner workings of the technique, and didn't consider being revived through it to be ideal (it's worth noting that Kabuto has "perfected" the technique far beyond what would've been possible in Madara's time, and I assume that modifications, such as the introduction of Senju cells, were probably not possible either).

If I had to speculate further, I'd say that he and/or Izuna probably did battle with Tobirama enough to learn how to deal with the technique. In fact, one theory I had was that Tobirama actually used it to reincarnate Izuna, of all people, because beyond the Uchiha and Senju brotherse themselves there aren't any impressive (or dramatic) candidates from that time that we've actually heard of. I like to imagine that Izuna was reincarnated and actually broke free of Tobirama's control, and went after Madara personally (revenge for fraticide and eye theft).

I love the theory TBH. Izuna going after his older brother and betrayed by him. There's so much abotu Madara that we don't know and are expected to take at 'face value'. From what we've seen of the Uchiha, there is a sense of honor within that clan and for all of Madara's incredible power, it wasn't enough for the rest of the clan to turn it's back on him. ALways made me wonder if there was something beyond just the power play that happened.

But Tobirama too... he knew how to use Edo Tensei AND S/T jutsu. Orochimaru learned quite a bit about the jutsu of ET while Minato learned a lot about S/T jutsu... which seems to be a natural ability of certain Uchiha MS.

[Hakuteiken]

This is one of the biggest plot holes Kishi still hasn't answered to.

We know Madara and Obito intended for Nagato to use Gedo Rinne for Madara and resurrect him, presumably at his best shape.
If this was such a convenient jutsu however why wouldn't Nagato revive Yahiko? Or Obito Rin?
Why would Nagato wait "for the right time"?

My theory is that Gedo Rinne requires the more chakra the longer the body died, meaning Nagato would probably kill himself trying to resurrect Yahiko. Probably Nagato would kill himself to resurrect Madara ( maybe aided by the Bijuu's chakra ), and probably would either when all Bijuus would be under him, or when the Juubi would be resurrected.

Didn't Nagato say he was "still in time" to revive those Konoha people while using Gedo Rinne Tensei on them?
I think Madara purely speculated on the power of Rinne Tensei by expecting to get revived by the aid of it. There is no way he had that much knowledge about Rinnegan, because he had just awakened it before his death. He didn't master the Rinnegan.
Apparently, Nagato wasn't able to use Rinne Tensei at the time Yahiko died.
I wonder when and where he did learn about this jutsu.