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Thread: Naruto 611 Discussion

  1. #481
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Even by ninja standards, Edo Tensei isn't a normal jutsu, and "keeping it for the sake of Konoha" doesn't really justify him, since, if a bad guy would be Hokage, then he would be doomed.
    Or it could be stole, like Orochimaru did. As for Uchihas, they banished Madara, why would they pay for his sins?
    While I don't buy the whole "Uchihas were misunderstood cute litte bunnies", regarding this point I'm with them.

    What mentality Hiruzen had? Let everyone walk all over Konoha? He was a bad leader, plain and simple.
    I like his character ( who doesn't ? ) but, as a Hokage, he screwed up badly imo, he has to thank whichever gods he believe in that Naruto didn't follow in Sasuke and Gaara's footsteps
    I know. I wasn't trying to justify the jutsu on its own, really. It's a wicked procedure, no matter how you view it. About being a bad guy, though, I can't really say much. Hashirama certainly had that good guy aura built in through the manga, but Tobirama is a bit of a mystery. I can't call him as a good guy or bad guy.
    He sure sacrificed his own life to save his platoon from a certain death, which is an honorable act, but as you said, it's more of a duty for a Hokage to do it.
    It was very easy to suspect them. Their rejection in Madara's ideals doesn't necessarily make it concrete that they had no one with similar opinions, but it means they were rather reluctant to act at that point. And yes, they weren't really that innocent, as their ceased desire for power returned to life when they felt they were left without governing powers.
    I don't know. It's difficult to blame just one side and call them the bad guys on this.
    It's more like a rivalry. Like the Jedi versus the Sith. Throughout the series, we are steered into thinking of the Jedi as good guys, and the Sith, as the bad ones.
    In Narutoverse, the Jedi are the Senju, ad the Sith are the Uchiha.

    I know, but what is that bad in having your own sense of justice going on? When Naruto becomes a Hokage one day, his mentality and view of things shouldn't be any different than that of Hiruzen. He'd not be able to bring himself to kill his pupil although knowing how dangerous he will be (Orochimaru), he'd object the Uchiha massacre and he'd eventually die for his village.
    Hiruzen was a bad Kage by the standards of unending battles, though. You're right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    You missed Itachi's pep talk.
    Before that, Naruto possessed indeed such arrogance, but after Itachi set him straight? Not really, he collaborated with everyone, and just this chapter he said that the whole alliance has a stronger power than Tsuki no Me.
    Now he can't run, the world is at stake, if they run, Tsuki no Me activates and they all become Madara's puppets, so he has to defeat Madara, and has to do it quickly.
    Oh, well, I didn't try to emphasize arrogance in saying that he'll try to do everything on his own. It actually comes out of his over-protective character. Self-trusting? He really is. Arrogant? I won't say he is. He never underestimated an opponent even he went on and on about defeating them.
    And I'm absolutely positive that we are long past the phase of making a choice. There isn't any option other than winning this fight.

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  3. #482
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Tobirama is responsible for starting the whole Uchiha revolution, while keeping a jutsu like Edo Tensei around ( basically he was responsible for half the shit that happened in this manga ), while Hiruzen was the Shinobi-no-Kami only in name:
    do I need to list all the times he screwed up?
    Hashirama screwed up just by existing, the bastard. Seriously though, I can easily imagine a scenario in which creating ET was not only possible for Tobirama, but wholly necessary. I want it to have this awesome origin, but I know deep down in my zombie bones we aren't getting it : /

    Sarutobi's crazy title is another thing that could easily be rectified with a flashback of him fighting in his prime. I imagine he was a terrifying opponent, knowing every jutsu that he could physically learn from Konoha. It would only add to the fact that he knew Shiki Fuujin, one of the most convenient jutsu in the series.

    ---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Naruto: "I'll win because I'll never give up."
    Madara: "Um...you sure about that?"
    Naruto: "Hell yeah!"
    Madara: "Nothing to do with the fact that others, like Kyuubi or Itachi, step in when things get difficult; and that fate pretty much has your back?
    Naruto: "Nope."
    Madara: ".........."(What an asshole!)
    It's funny that this manga is so mythology based. Back in the day, everything was an act of god/s. If somebody did something clearly miraculous (like Naruto has time and time again), then you better follow what that guy says. He's got da gods on his side.

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  5. #483
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    While I understand and I agree, do keep in mind that mangakas, expecially on Shounen Jump, are bounded to obey to what editors says:
    if the editors says "Naruto has to keep only his Rasengan and Kage Bushin", Kishimoto is forced to abide to it ( forced is a strong word, since editors and mangakas have usually very good relationships and collaborate on every chapter ).
    Examples?
    Dragonball Z, editors force Toriyama to continue it past the Frieza arc. Our own Naruto, editors forcing Kishi to speed up the ending of the Immortals Arc so the focus can shift to Sasuke, and then Bleach, with the editors forcing Kubo to swiftly end the Fullbring Arc.
    Mangas sadly aren't books, were the author has almost full autority over what he writes
    My understanding is that editors have influence but they can't force writers to do anything, especially writers of Kishimoto's clout. Otherwise series like Gintama would not exist.(because that is an editor's nightmare)

    This strikes me as one of those situations where editors unfairly get blamed for a series' flaws. An editor can can reject things, give feedback, and point out what he thinks works/doesn't work; maybe even suggest things that might work better. In a perfect world that kind of editing is basically a safety net for a writer.

    Judging from the type of issues that have been coming up for Naruto I don't think it's a "strong editor bullying Kishi into doing what he wants". In fact, judging from the type of issues that have come up, it seems to me like the opposite. Where the guy is either too star struck or shy to give the kind of writing feedback that is needed to create a polished story.

    An example of what I mean was having the battles versus Kabuto, Madara, and Tobi all at the same time. That's the kind of pacing in a storyboard should result in a long abusive profanity laced email from an editor; ending with the words "FIX THIS GARBAGE!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    As I said countless times, my hope for the final fight between Sasuke and Naruto is to eliminate Susano'o and Kyuubi modes, and to battle with MS abilities and Sage Mode. No chakra monsters, not giant beasts.
    And while Kyuubi mode was a given ( its obvious the main character will conquer the evil inside him ), I agree he pretty much turned him into ninja Jesus:
    the preachings, the book and the miracles.
    I'm waiting Madara to crucify him so he can die for our sins
    I hold slightly different hopes. Maybe they are unreasonable but I'm still holding on...

    I want to see the emperor realize he's wearing no clothes. Naruto needs to fail in some sense or another to remind himself how human and imperfect he is.

    If a character doesn't accept their fears, they can never be brave.
    If a character doesn't acknowledge their own foolishness, they can never be wise.
    If a character doesn't see their own weakness, they can never become strong.

    Naruto, as he is right now, is propped up by dozens similar of narrative crutches. I want to see them taken away. Let him fail, let some of his comrades die, let his foolishness come at a price. If Naruto really is the character I thought him to be, the story shouldn't be afraid of putting him through the same adversity that caused others to fall.

    Give him the test of fire. It'll be rough, but he'll come out stronger and better for it.
    Last edited by Jammin; December 03, 2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  7. #484
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Naruto, as he is right now, is propped up by dozens similar of narrative crutches. I want to see them taken away. Let him fail, let some of his comrades die, let his foolishness come at a price. If Naruto really is the character I thought him to be, the story shouldn't be afraid of putting him through the same adversity that caused others to fall.

    Give him the test of fire. It'll be rough, but he'll come out stronger and better for it.
    If Naruto fails to protect all of his comrades, he will refuse to become hokage. He's said as much several times.
    I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

  8. #485
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Roman's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    If Naruto fails to protect all of his comrades, he will refuse to become hokage. He's said as much several times.
    That can't be meant literally, but I don't think Kishi's gonna let someone from Konoha die. That position is for someone from other villages but who befriended him. Bee fits for that spot, honestly. If he died, Naruto would rage in flames and probably get a power up.

  9. #486
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Invader's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Quote:
    I want to see the emperor realize he's wearing no clothes. Naruto needs to fail in some sense or another to remind himself how human and imperfect he is.
    Everything you say you want has already happened in the manga several times over. From his empty childhood, to rejection by the entire village, to desperate class clown, to academy failure, to defeat in his first fight, to repeated whompings, almost losing himself to the QB, to getting clobbered by Pain, fear of inadequacy, actual lack of adequacy driving him to try harder, deaths, defeats, doubts, yadda yadda yadda on and on and on and on. Naruto's been 'reminded' of his humanity and imperfection dozens of times.

    You've already gotten everything you ever wanted. In spades. Times 1 billion. In fact it has happened so often, so constantly, and so completely that everyone was SICK of it. There were epic threads about this. People were sick of Naruto getting "kicked in the nuts". They were tired of his constant defeats. They were weary of him being the weakest guy in the whole storyline. We were tired of his repeated humilations, his neverending shortcomings, the insults, the defeats, the putdown, the lack of accomplishments. Do you forget - or do you choose to forget - that up until chapter 340 (over HALF the manga) Naruto really had no victory to call his own except over Kiba and Neji? We were all sick of his weakness and the fact that in every fight he was nothing but a punching bag that kept taking hit after hit with no retaliation except to say "I won't give up". Stick a fork in it - it's done - yeesh.

    And all those nut-kickings, defeats, humiliations, insults and weakness are never good enough. There's always something else that someone says they "want Naruto to suffer" and so the goalpost gets moved. "Wah wah wah - some arbitrary, artificial, completely idiomatic standard that I am using to judge Naruto's character hasn't been exactly met because of my constantly shifting, nebulous, undefined personal whims and even though a ton of what I say I want is in the manga already, I'm going to ignore it and create an unattainable, endlessly altering set of fungible re-definitions and permutations of my requirements."

    As Madara would say... "How unsightly..."
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

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  11. #487
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Creativity doesn't have much to do with intellect. As a matter of fact, this is something I have experience with from first hand. When I was younger I had troubles in school because of my slight/moderate ADD. For example I was rather drawing my own comics or daydreaming about all kinds of stuff instead of focusing on class.

    But back then people didn't realy know about this and instead I was running from one psychological analyst to another, everyone just blaming eachother (me, class-mates, teachers, parents etc.) because everyone was clueless about whats going on.

    Point is, I had to do a lot of IQ tests back then and I'am considered creatively gifted because my creativity scores where a lot higher then my IQ scores, the latter being only somewhere between 120 and 130, which does not classify as genius but only as above average.

    Here's something I've taken from an article about this topic:



    So no, just like me, Naruto by definition is not a genius. I'd actually go so far to doubt his creativity as well, because even that just shows in short, inconsistent outbreaks while at other occasions he has trouble with easy peasy stuff like imagining stuff other people explain to him.
    I don't know man. Can't say i agree with atribuiting the genius factor only to people with high IQ. For one after reading this:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...of-chapter-610
    I would say you are a genius at that stuff. Also i am sure i am not the only one who would agree on this.

    For me attributing the genius title only to people who have high computing power is wrong. I don't give a damn what a man's IQ is if said man can use a few words to move me to tears or compose the most beautiful poems. But yes generaly this people also have somewhere above average IQ.

    I have a better quote for you about "genius":

    Quote Quote:
    A genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight. There is no scientifically precise definition of genius, and the question of whether the notion itself has any real meaning has long been a subject of debate. The term is used in various ways: to refer to a particular aspect of an individual, or the individual in their entirety; to a scholar in many subjects (e.g. Isaac Newton or Leonardo da Vinci) [1] or a scholar in a single subject (e.g., Albert Einstein or Noam Chomsky). Research into what causes genius and mastery is still in its early stages, and psychology offers relevant insights.
    Someone who can learn the shadow clone tech in not even a night IS a genius, someone who can turn in a few hours the most obsessed psychopathic killer into what Gaara is now IS a genius. Someone who can fundamentaly change people around him by just beeing there IS a genius. Remember Naruto was able to take SM to a level that nobody before could. We have a garden of statues of people who failed... Then we can go with FRS and so on.
    Anyway someone with iq of 120 but HIGH creativity IS a genius to me.

    The concept of genius can vary from people to people based on what said people concept of genius represents.

    Also found this article, its interesting:
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Being...IQ-52170.shtml
    Last edited by xXan; December 03, 2012 at 03:39 PM.

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  13. #488
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Invader's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Quote:
    For me attributing the genius title only to people who have high computing power is wrong.
    Hear hear. Naruto is a genius. Not a person with a high IQ, but a genius in his own way. Those who say he is not are using some other set of standards to artificially LIMIT what they will or won't call a genius. That's fine. As your post indicates, the definition of 'genius' is multifaceted and subjective. There is no 'one true' definition for the term. However, to try to claim Naruto is NOT a genius when he is clearly exceptional on many levels is just being closed-minded and narrow.
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

  14. #489
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    If Naruto fails to protect all of his comrades, he will refuse to become hokage. He's said as much several times.
    Naruto says a lot of things..... Some right. Some not so much.

    Naruto is not a god. He cannot control the world and force it to go the way he wants. I don't blame him for making the promise, but it was a promise that is beyond his power to keep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Everything you say you want has already happened in the manga several times over. From his empty childhood, to rejection by the entire village, to desperate class clown, to academy failure, to defeat in his first fight, to repeated whompings, almost losing himself to the QB, to getting clobbered by Pain, fear of inadequacy, actual lack of adequacy driving him to try harder, deaths, defeats, doubts, yadda yadda yadda on and on and on and on. Naruto's been 'reminded' of his humanity and imperfection dozens of times.

    You've already gotten everything you ever wanted. In spades. Times 1 billion. In fact it has happened so often, so constantly, and so completely that everyone was SICK of it. There were epic threads about this. People were sick of Naruto getting "kicked in the nuts". They were tired of his constant defeats. They were weary of him being the weakest guy in the whole storyline. We were tired of his repeated humilations, his neverending shortcomings, the insults, the defeats, the putdown, the lack of accomplishments. Do you forget - or do you choose to forget - that up until chapter 340 (over HALF the manga) Naruto really had no victory to call his own except over Kiba and Neji? We were all sick of his weakness and the fact that in every fight he was nothing but a punching bag that kept taking hit after hit with no retaliation except to say "I won't give up". Stick a fork in it - it's done - yeesh.

    And all those nut-kickings, defeats, humiliations, insults and weakness are never good enough. There's always something else that someone says they "want Naruto to suffer" and so the goalpost gets moved. "Wah wah wah - some arbitrary, artificial, completely idiomatic standard that I am using to judge Naruto's character hasn't been exactly met because of my constantly shifting, nebulous, undefined personal whims and even though a ton of what I say I want is in the manga already, I'm going to ignore it and create an unattainable, endlessly altering set of fungible re-definitions and permutations of my requirements."

    As Madara would say... "How unsightly..."
    First off, could you do me a favor and take the rudeness down a few notches there kemosabi? You don't like my perspective, that's cool. There is no reason we can't discuss such differences respectfully.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't object to Naruto growing stronger, or gaining success. What I object to is how shallow it all is.

    Kid: "Mr. Naruto, how can I be great like you?"
    Naruto: "Never give up!"
    Kid: "I already do that...and things still don't work out."
    Naruto: "Then do what I did and inherit the power of a pseudo god called the Kyuubi"
    Kid: "Um....I can't do that..."
    Naruto: "Ok, then get the author to write everything in your favor."
    Kid: "What author...w-what are out talking about?"
    Naruto: "Did I mention, the 'Never give up' thing?"
    Kid: "I think I hear my mom calling" *runs away from the crazy man*

    This is my point about what has happened to Naruto's characterization. He is not longer changing and growing as he meets adversity the way he once did. Instead the world is changing to accommodate him. Which makes his strength false and illusory, as well as making it difficult to respect or relate to.

    You seem to be treating the situation like it's this kind it is this kind of false maturation, or nothing. And I reject that.
    Last edited by Jammin; December 03, 2012 at 10:44 PM.
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  16. #490
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    And think of how different the story would have been if it was actually just about Naruto, the jinchuuriki, and their struggle against Akatsuki. Make Nagato the ACTUAL leader of Akatsuki, and Naruto's fight with Pain moved to near the end of the series, with Naruto and Sasuke needing to put aside their differences to stop Nagato's plan. The bijuu being 'misunderstood' is a stretch- the way I see it they fed on the malice of humans, and were directly pissed off at being used over and over. Imagine how a bijuu could be further corrupted by having a straight-up bad person as it's host. It's the fact that Kishi shoved that little fact in at the last second, like somebody cramming for a test instead of eating breakfast.

    All those moments of characterization will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.

    While we're at it, subtract everything about Madara out of the story, beside being used as a puppet like Hashirama and whispered of as a legend. Oh Tobi, how I miss you so. Why did you have to suffer aimless Madarafication?!
    That's something I had came into Part Two wanting, though now that I've seen how Kishi treats their mythos, I can't really say whether I would still be for it or against. On the Bijuus, the way they were made to turn gave rise to the whole misunderstood belief. That and the recon of the Bijuus being made of actual malice. Them feeling on malice doesn't really work, unless they were absorbing malice from their surrounding. The way it was set up, the Bijuus shouldn't have had that much malice being placed within children at first and should logically have been able to get along with their host, what with being caught in the same situation. Most of the hosts we've seen have been relatively good people, at least in ninja terms.

    I think Madara's involvement would have been fine, had he remained the shell of himself Tobi. What would have helped though, would have been him a separate antagonist unrelated to Akatsuki or the villages, like Orochimaru. Have him as someone acting against both of those sides would have been interesting and added more drama. Of course, Nagato would have remained the final villain, except without the whole Konoha revival.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Everything you say you want has already happened in the manga several times over. From his empty childhood, to rejection by the entire village, to desperate class clown, to academy failure, to defeat in his first fight, to repeated whompings, almost losing himself to the QB, to getting clobbered by Pain, fear of inadequacy, actual lack of adequacy driving him to try harder, deaths, defeats, doubts, yadda yadda yadda on and on and on and on. Naruto's been 'reminded' of his humanity and imperfection dozens of times.

    You've already gotten everything you ever wanted. In spades. Times 1 billion. In fact it has happened so often, so constantly, and so completely that everyone was SICK of it. There were epic threads about this. People were sick of Naruto getting "kicked in the nuts". They were tired of his constant defeats. They were weary of him being the weakest guy in the whole storyline. We were tired of his repeated humilations, his neverending shortcomings, the insults, the defeats, the putdown, the lack of accomplishments. Do you forget - or do you choose to forget - that up until chapter 340 (over HALF the manga) Naruto really had no victory to call his own except over Kiba and Neji? We were all sick of his weakness and the fact that in every fight he was nothing but a punching bag that kept taking hit after hit with no retaliation except to say "I won't give up". Stick a fork in it - it's done - yeesh.

    And all those nut-kickings, defeats, humiliations, insults and weakness are never good enough. There's always something else that someone says they "want Naruto to suffer" and so the goalpost gets moved. "Wah wah wah - some arbitrary, artificial, completely idiomatic standard that I am using to judge Naruto's character hasn't been exactly met because of my constantly shifting, nebulous, undefined personal whims and even though a ton of what I say I want is in the manga already, I'm going to ignore it and create an unattainable, endlessly altering set of fungible re-definitions and permutations of my requirements."

    As Madara would say... "How unsightly..."
    You do realize that it happens again and again because situations change and thus it ends up needing to be reinforced again or differently. That's called character development. Most of the major characters have had multiple ups and downs. Just because one is tired of him always losing, doesn't mean that him always winning is the right treatment, not that this is even about his win/lost record. It's about blind faith without him showing anything to back it up with. That's how Mary Sues are created. People want Naruto to show why his path/faith is the best, not for Kishi to simply have it as the best without any sort of counterargument, like he did against Nagato by roving he was the bigger man. It's time for us to be shown Naruto's own take upon war and why, when he takes over, he'll be against it. Naruto sailing through this situation without worry is not a promising foundation.

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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Well - I'm not trying to target "you" specifically. What I'm targeting is the general attitude, which you (and others) espouse. Yes - I am being harsh towards that concept - but I'm not targeting you specifically for derision. When it is your specific quote that is the example though, it is understandable to take it personally. I'll try harder to make the distinction clearer in the future. But the problem is that in a purely text-based format it is hard to keep from taking such a discussion personally when it is your ideas that are being attacked. Case in point...

    Quote Quote:
    You seem to be treating the situation like it's this kind it this kind of false maturation, or nothing. And I reject that.
    If I was a very sensitive chap I'd say, "Woah - take it down a notch there Captain Rudeness". However, I'm able to separate the dispute with my 'idea' from your use of the personal pronoun "You". So while I was definitely butchering your opinion, I was not attacking "you".

    But - on to your substance...

    Quote Quote:
    He is not longer changing and growing as he meets adversity they way he once did. Instead the world is changing to accommodate him. Which makes his strength false and illusory, as well as making it difficult to respect or relate to.
    When Christ refused to accept "reality", but instead offered a superior philosophy based on humility, sacrifice, and repentance - was he refusing to change or grow with adversity? Did not the world change to accommodate HIM rather than him moderating or watering-down his philosophy in order to accept "things as they were"? Did that make his philosophy, "Be ye perfect" difficult to respect or relate to? Perform the same mental exercise with other revolutionaries such as Ghandi, MLK, Bhudda, and so on. Now perhaps you'll get the point. True revolutionaries - once they achieve a level of enlightenment - do not require 'changing and growing' when it comes to their core philosophies. Those concepts are fully mature, and it is OTHER people that have to learn to accept them.

    Quote Quote:
    It's time for us to be shown Naruto's own take upon war and why, when he takes over, he'll be against it. Naruto sailing through this situation without worry is not a promising foundation.
    But right now Naruto is facing down the purest form of 'evil' he's encountered to date. There is no negotiating with it. And we've already heard his take on the war. Several times. And I wouldn't say Naruto is sailing through it without worry. He's taken quite a shellacking in this fight. It's the longest fight in the manga so far, going all the way back to chapter 564. We're at 47 chapters so far (with intermissions) and they are still probably another 10+ chapters away from a conclusion - assuming they don't cut away to Captain Emo and his troupe of doofuses.

    There's a difference between 'sailing through' and simply not questioning the fact that he is in the right fight at the right time. What would be the point in naruto questioning himself against Obito/Madara now? Such a pointless detour into self-doubt would stick out like a sore thumb, and would be bad writing on several levels. That time has passed.
    Last edited by Invader; December 03, 2012 at 04:57 PM.
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

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  19. #492
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    When Christ refused to accept "reality", but instead offered a superior philosophy based on humility, sacrifice, and repentance - was he refusing to change or grow with adversity? Did not the world change to accommodate HIM rather than him moderating or watering-down his philosophy in order to accept "things as they were"? Did that make his philosophy, "Be ye perfect" difficult to respect or relate to? Perform the same mental exercise with other revolutionaries such as Ghandi, MLK, Bhudda, and so on. Now perhaps you'll get the point. True revolutionaries - once they achieve a level of enlightenment - do not require 'changing and growing' when it comes to their core philosophies. Those concepts are fully mature, and it is OTHER people that have to learn to accept them.
    Didn't he go through various trials as he showed the way, physically proving them each wrong and incorrect, right up until the end? He didn't simply sprout something and stick to the one belief without facing any sort of trouble. He countered every trial as it came to him, which was how he was proven so in the end. Same with your other examples, they all faced obstacles that they were forced to overcome in order to show their faith/belief was what it was. It was them continuing on despite the obstacles that gave them the authority that others saw. That's exactly what people want Naruto to face, obstacles to his belief so that he can be shown overcoming them and thus proving that his path is right. Naruto being shown right without any troubles is meaningless.

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  21. #493
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Didn't he go through various trials as he showed the way, physically proving them each wrong and incorrect, right up until the end? He didn't simply sprout something and stick to the one belief without facing any sort of trouble. He countered every trial as it came to him, which was how he was proven so in the end. Same with your other examples, they all faced obstacles that they were forced to overcome in order to show their faith/belief was what it was. It was them continuing on despite the obstacles that gave them the authority that others saw. That's exactly what people want Naruto to face, obstacles to his belief so that he can be shown overcoming them and thus proving that his path is right. Naruto being shown right without any troubles is meaningless.
    If you belive Naruto has no obstacles in his path to bring peace to his world then we are not reading the same manga. Starting with his friend Sasuke, Nagato, Obito (curently changing him), Gaara, Konan, Bee, Raikage, Tsunade and so on... Come on man hate on the kid a little less. He had a long jorney and even curently in this fight he is changing a man and showing him there is another way. Naruto got kicked every step of the way. Curently he even showed Kakashi how he was drifting before Obito...

    Oh and KYUUBI another obstacle he was able to overcome and inspire Kurama with his message.

  22. #494
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Itachi's eyes now that are in Sasuke's eye sockets?
    How does that mean Itachi gave him his power? I don't see Sasuke using Tsukuyomi like Itachi or having the Sword of Totsuka or Yata Mirror. All Itachi's eyes did was restore Sasuke's sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrathgrath View Post
    BTW, Ever heard of too many cooks in the kitchen? NM that... Let me ask you this. Which do you think will get a higher death rate: a person with a fly swatter against 4 mosquitos or a person with a fly swatter against 10k mosquitos? I know it was mentioned in the poll but.. Rinne-Meteor, Rinne-Misslestorm, TenseiBOMB, BijuuDamahameha, Wood Clone MadaraSusano'o. Any one of those, let alone several at once, could DESTROY the alliance. I'm interested in what Kishi will do..
    He'll probably have Naruto protect the Alliance with his power or Kyuubi power. Or, the Alliance can protect themselves with group doton no wall jutsu.. I could see Gaara and Oonoki joining at the last moment and helping or creating their own defense that saves most of the Alliance. I don't think we'll ever see anyone that we know die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    He probably doesn't have a tenth of the wisdom Jiraiya had and Jiraiya refused to be a Hokage because he thought he didn't fit the job. How come Naruto fit a job even Jiraiya didn't?
    I thought it was mostly because Jiraiya had to go out of the village a lot to keep tabs on Orochimaru and Akatsuki, and gather intel. Although him not fitting the job could be part of it, I thought he had other reasons. Jiraiya is better as an intel gatherer than hokage anyway.

    And let's remember that Jiraiya was a lot like Naruto when he was a kid, as seen by his flashback after Hiruzen's death. Jiraiya grew up to be an awesome character, so Naruto still has hope. IF Kishi lets Naruto grow up to be wise and badass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    While I understand and I agree, do keep in mind that mangakas, expecially on Shounen Jump, are bounded to obey to what editors says:
    if the editors says "Naruto has to keep only his Rasengan and Kage Bushin", Kishimoto is forced to abide to it ( forced is a strong word, since editors and mangakas have usually very good relationships and collaborate on every chapter ).
    Read in Wikipedia that Kishi wanted Naruto to stay like a typical shounen hero, like Goku. It's why he's limited Naruto and given him nonsensical powerups. It's why Naruto's intelligence suffers, and why Naruto matured, and then dematured. Though I dunno the actual reason for him doing so.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    On the other hand, we'll probably not see Naruto become a Hokage. I see no reason for the Lord of the Land of Fire to agree in appointing a teenager kid as Hokage, when he thought Kakashi of someone too young for the job initially when Tsunade was bedridden..
    You think so?

    If he/they knows that naruto is the son of minato and student of jiraiya then I don't see any problem.

    And naruto would going to use his almighty talk no jutsu, then everything would gonna be alright. The fuedal lord would going to bet on naruto like tsunade did.

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