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Madara wipes the floor with The Alliance, Meteor no Jutsu style.
Obito decides to finally use his Rinnegan and Chou Shinra Tensei The Alliance
Ino controls the Juubi and makes it eat Madara and Obito
Sasuke crashes the party and every fangirl screams
Hinata reveals she's the mastermind behind the Juubi, and backstabs Naruto
Juubi & Co decide they are suddenly weaker and let the Alliance do their thing while standing still like robots
Juubi does NOT fire his Bijuuhameha at the Alliance and patiently waits until Kyuubi is ready to dance
Maybe I just assumed, because Tsunade said Sandaime wanted Jiraiya to succeed him, it would only be logical if he was asked to become the Fourth, as well, before being asked to become the Fifth.
He's never going to be a hermit filled with wisdom, anyway. Thank God, Sage Mode is just a moniker and not something related to being a sage.
To defeat the Rinnegan, he definitely needs some trickery.
And that won't be coming from talk no jutsu, so, maybe a combined attack from the entire Shinobi alliance will put a scratch on the Juubi.
Still waiting to see what Sasuke and Orochimaru are up to. Obviously, it's not about that everlasting "I will destroy Konoha" chit chat at the moment.
They may come along with a Rinnegan awaken and that's what Madara would call cheating now.
IMO, Naruto way of thinking, to me, is that you can succeed if you work hard and don't give up. I believe this is true because I've seen it in real life. Only thing is, we have to curb our expectations. Dreams often do not turn into reality. In Naruto's case, his dreams can be reality because he was given the keys to God-like power. Again, if Nagato was allowed to leave everyone dead, this wouldn't be a problem and Naruto would "get it". But since it didn't, he believes anything is possible.
It was also said that Orochimaru was Hiruzen's favorite. I also recall Orochimaru and Minato being the only ones mentioned for Fourth Hokage, Jiraiya's name never popped up, apart from the Fire Daimyo wanting Jiraiya as a hokage, if I recall. I'm not sure if Minato did put down his name, but I remember reading that.
I think Naruto could get smart like Jiraiya though. He's still young, but once he gets experience and experiences real world, he could gain tons of potential. I dunno, I just don't think Naruto will remain stupid forever.
So totally want to see Sasuke adn Naruto team up though.
As I pointed above, Nagato believed in Naruto only because the things Naruto went on and on were his ideals back then as a young man. It wasn't because Naruto has special power to convince people. You believe in people only when you really want to. In that case, Nagato wanted to believe in "himself" again, and had a moment of redemption.
Though, I admit I still don't get the point of reviving fodder Shinobi as a way of redemption, when Nagato could keep himself alive and fight for his ideals himself again. In the end, Nagato gave up on his own in the final moment, yet, he entrusted another young kid with the task, who may well be bound to another failure.
It just doesn't make sense to me.
And I guess Naruto reminded Nagato of his old self. I do think Nagato was too easily convinced though.
I should repeat that in next chapter , MAdara and Juubi and Obito will forget their abilities ....... so no one will die ( at least no one from Savior friend would get kill by Madara and co )
I think Naruto should face something like this :
so , Are you think Naruto can face with these questionsQuote:
This I can agree with. Not a sage like Rikudou Sennin, but someone like Jiraiya, who is, despite all his foolish poses, actually smart.
Who would ever think Jiraiya would one day be a man of justice and wisdom more than Orochimaru did ever become, back when they were both kids, I wonder (=
They can have a battle of their own later on. It goes for Orochimaru, as well. If he somehow escapes Izanami, Kabuto, too. If they don't do anything against it, they will end up getting owned by the freaking genjutsu, anyway.
So, mutual benefit is present in teaming up.
Nagato's 180 was so unrealistic it isn't even funny. And in here lies the problem. Changing people with radical or strong beliefs simply isn't believable. People do not like to change how they think, they do not like being wrong. Naruto has essentially been proving people wrong, without himself actually being right. THAT, is a massive problem, and something that could never happen in the real world. You need evidence, proof, and answer, SOMETHING. Naruto has nothing other than the idea that he can eventually find an answer, and eventually win. What would happen if Naruto failed all these people that have entrusted their beliefs into him?
---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 AM ----------
But if it were not for the Kyuubi Naruto would be long dead by now. Sasuke would have killed him at the VOTE, and this story would be over. Naruto achieving all of what he has is cheapened by the fact he can cheat death where others can not. When people look at Naruto they think "wow this kid is something" without realizing that he is only able to be "something" because of the mythical beast inside him. This the problem. Naruto simple way of thinking, his entire ability to push past a normal persons limits, to push past all these obstacles is thanks to the Kyuubi.
So to me, IMO, Naruto's shallow ideals and limited explanations of how to solve problems only work because of the Kyuubi. Whether or not he made the power is own is irrelevant.
Nagato isn't really evil to begin with. He just seen his old self to naruto. His belief about peace and his goal to the ninja world are just coming back to his senses. It's just like the manipulation of obito to nagato was being replaced by naruto's words/opinion.
Yeah, it may be a minute of change, but there's alot of real stories that happened exactly like nagato. A murderer who change his heart/opinion because of their love one's. A murderer who change his heart the moment he realized he was wrong. So for saying that nagato's change is unrealistic is kinda wrong.
And the fact that naruto used nagato's opinion about peace, naruto is just simply kicking nagato's true self backed to normal.
Nagato didn't believe in Naruto, nor in his answer. As you said, there is no such answer "I will keep looking for it". Jiraiya tried and failed. Nagato tried and failed. Naruto is no different. In the end, Nagato just recalled his own words to Jiraiya: "Faith is better than any plan".
An eternal peace is a concept existing within an utopia, so that, you can only "believe" in it. Nothing more.
Nagato believed in the ideals passed down to him and Naruto. He had no reason to personally believe in Naruto and the only reason I can see in questioning him with "How?" was this.
So, now then, why didn't he just embrace his ideals again when he encountered Jiraiya? The words taken from his book can make a change, but the man himself cannot?
I agree, it's not realistic.
---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------
What I find as unrealistic is Jiraiya's failure in triggering that change.
Though, from a certain standpoint, that entire talk was about Jiraiya, Nagato and finally, Naruto's shared ideals, so, I don't know.
Well i do belive its not necesary after the Pein event. That was enough to shape him in the man he is NOW. That was his TURNING POINT. Then he was able to defeat his dark side. What is it left? Yes life is a continous fight/change but he is just about up there. There is no longer a need for psychological barriers. I don't even agree with Itachi when he said Naruto was doing crep because of his ego. He was doing it to SAVE HIS FRIENDS, not becoming trash and loosing them. That is what Minato/Kushina/JMan/Nagato/Konan and a few other entrusted him to do. ITS HIS LEGACY.Quote:
Thing is he does have obstacles curently.
Even curently he is SHOWING OBITO how his way of the ninja is the right way and how he is NOT going to become trash (even if its somewhat naive). He is curently sholdering (or at least trying) the hate of the world and the war itself. Everywhere he goes he finds people that don't belive in him and he NEEDS to prove himself. What do you think its curently going on with Obito. How about Kakashi and Naruto piking him up after he found about Obito. Even with Kakashi Naruto demonstrates his will to don't give up. Wth Obito he is demonstrating how there is another way, HIS WAY.
Now this are more psychological(to his faith) barriers as he is curently facing Madara/Obito and the bloody 10 tails. There is no great chalange then that (that we know of coruse).
Also the Kyuubi was ALWAYS an obstacle and Naruto even curently had to PROVE HIMSELF to Kurama before they teamed up. Do you remember when Kurama was going on and on how he can't do shit and then Naruto had to enforce his possiton on how he can't question himself?
Even the chapter itself is names with Naruto having to provide proof of his good will:
Seriously it was and obstacle.
The only thing i see here are people QQ-ing about Kishi's writing skills... I don't even understand why some people follow the manga (not you) or why they bother posting around here. I can see pages and pages of nothing but moaning of how lame and what not the manga is and how Naruto's goal is noting but naive and crep.
Last edited by xXan; December 04, 2012 at 02:24 AM.
And Nagato isn't simply a murderer. He is a mass murdering terrorist with plans for world domination who was very likely insane to some degree. It is one thing for a normal person to commit murderer and feel bad about it, it is another thing for someone like Nagato to do the same. If you can't see how that is unrealistic then there is no point in continuing this conversation.
Sadly, Kishi can't make Naruto a hokage in a feasible way if he keeps him as he is. Naruto needs to mature and get smarter, like he was meant to in Part I. <_<
Let's hope Kishi realizes he can make Naruto quite similar to Jiraiya, yet unique. Naruto can be the less perverted, more loudmouthed version of Jiraiya. When Naruto got serious, like Jiraiya, he was epic. I hope Naruto learns a lot of jutsu that Jiraiya knew, especially since as Kyuubi's jinchuuriki and kage bunshin user, he'd be extremely dangerous.Quote:
Don't care if they fight, to be honest. I don't want to see Kyuubi vs. Susano'o. If they did have normal fight though, like in VotE, then I'd be eager to read it.Quote:
True, but Orochimaru probably has a good defense against the genjutsu. He apparently had tons of info about anything, he could have prepared a way to prevent getting hit with the genjutsu. Maybe this is one of the reasons why he was hellbent on Akatsuki's destruction.
IMO people that believe "Faith is better than any plan" are people who are unwilling to accept the reality of the world. Naruto is one of these people. He is unwilling to accept that he is a shinobi, a trained killer. That his best friend is a murderous lunatic, and that as long as humans are humans, hatred will always exist because of things like jealousy, death, hardship etc.
And IMO, change of the scale Naruto and Nagato were talking of is indeed impossible, or at the very least, is not possible in any foreseeable future where humans act like normal humans.
Last edited by Delbi; December 04, 2012 at 02:21 AM.
If not for Kyuubi, Gaara would have killed Naruto, Neji would have beaten Naruto, and who knows how he'd have done against Haku or even Orochimaru and the snake when they were fighting Sasuke?Quote:
I'm not sure if it's thanks to the Kyuubi though. Remember when Orochimaru messed up the seal during the Forest of Death exam? Naruto was still able to push himself and keep going against the Rain (?) genin when they were close to the tower. He wasn't able to use the Kyuubi's power at all. He also beat Kiba without using Kyuubi's power. I will stand firm by the belief that Naruto pushes himself past a normal person's limit and obstacles. The Kyuubi didn't help him when he was training to master rasengan, other than when Naruto was passed out, if I recall. Naruto was the one who stabbed his hand and made a vow, he's the one who kept practicing rasengan despite the condition of his hand.
No, it's also because he can either relate to others or prove others wrong. By winning, he proved Neji wrong about the concept of destiny. By relating to Gaara, he showed that even Gaara could make bonds.Quote: