Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/22/14 - 9/28/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: One Piece 761 by cnet128 , Bleach 597 (2)

View Poll Results: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    6 37.50%
  • No

    10 62.50%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
New Reply
Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 230

Thread: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

  1. #46
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    If they can take down the whole gotei13 then they are at least 90% of CC strength. Perhaps both Yama and Bach were once Royal guards and Bach defected whereas Yama formed the Gotei 13.

  2. #47
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    727
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
    If they can take down the whole gotei13 then they are at least 90% of CC strength. Perhaps both Yama and Bach were once Royal guards and Bach defected whereas Yama formed the Gotei 13.
    both your assumptions may be correct. Royal Guards are definitely close to CC in terms of strength. about the other theory, it sounds good.
    Naruto Forever


  3. #48
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity kidopitz27's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Google it
    Country
    Philippines
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,954
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Yama was part of a group (i think Juha (memory clone) said that) that kill all quincies 1000 years ago

    i really think that 1000 or before the Quincy vs Shinigami 1000 years ago Royal Guards didn't exist and i really think that 1000 years ago some quincies infiltrated the Soul King's realm and after that Shingami vs Quincies 1000 years ago the group where Yama is part with become the RG and Yama created the G13 thinking that he will be the first line of defense if someone will attack the Soul King

    i really think that Yama can be as powerful as a RG in 1 on 1 fight

    OMG TWO VILEPLUME

    100% sure that Zoro already surpassed mihawk! 10/06/10

  4. #49
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by kidopitz27 View Post
    Yama was part of a group (i think Juha (memory clone) said that) that kill all quincies 1000 years ago

    i really think that 1000 or before the Quincy vs Shinigami 1000 years ago Royal Guards didn't exist and i really think that 1000 years ago some quincies infiltrated the Soul King's realm and after that Shingami vs Quincies 1000 years ago the group where Yama is part with become the RG and Yama created the G13 thinking that he will be the first line of defense if someone will attack the Soul King

    i really think that Yama can be as powerful as a RG in 1 on 1 fight
    In his battle with Aizen, Captain-Commander talks about holding the position for 1,000 years, but doesn't state anything regarding a prior Captain-Commander.
    Mangasteam translation, of course, suggests that he's the 30th Captain-Commander, though I'd certainly refrain from believing those translations, anyway (=

  5. #50
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    In his battle with Aizen, Captain-Commander talks about holding the position for 1,000 years, but doesn't state anything regarding a prior Captain-Commander.
    Mangasteam translation, of course, suggests that he's the 30th Captain-Commander, though I'd certainly refrain from believing those translations, anyway (=
    Was there a CC before Yama though? I may have misread but I got the idea that Yama and his peers created the 13 divisions, before they were there, shouldn't there have been no captains? Maybe a different structure with a CC is possible but I thought Yama was the first and only.
    Meh

  6. #51
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
    If they can take down the whole gotei13 then they are at least 90% of CC strength. Perhaps both Yama and Bach were once Royal guards and Bach defected whereas Yama formed the Gotei 13.
    That's a nice theory.
    But who were these men that Bach looked down in a wicked way? Maybe they had subordinates even in that time.
    And Mayuri knows about Bach's defection. Perhaps he was a pupil of one of the Royal Guards back then? Shutara?

    ---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Was there a CC before Yama though? I may have misread but I got the idea that Yama and his peers created the 13 divisions, before they were there, shouldn't there have been no captains? Maybe a different structure with a CC is possible but I thought Yama was the first and only.
    I'm not sure about captains, as Kyouraku and Ukitake are the first academy graduates and Unohana is their senpai, so, there is also a chance that there were captains before, too.
    Was there a Captain-Commander? I suppose there wasn't. Gotei 13 was probably formed the way it is now about 1,000 years ago, maybe after Bach's escape.

  7. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  8. #52
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Country
    Sweden
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Okay, I don't believe I'm the only one to have noticed this but the following rings true in my head.
    Shunsui states that "Their combined power is greater than all of the Gotei 13 put together."

    So what is the Gotei 13?
    All the captains from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All vice captains from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All 3rd seats from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All 4th seats from the 1st to the 13th divsion.
    All 5th seats from the 1st to the 13th divison.
    And onwards, including every single shinigami in Soul Society.

    Now let me repeat that.

    "Their combined power is greater than all of the Gotei 13 put together."

    Notice the GREATER part.

    This means Zero Divsion > SS.

  9. #53
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    19
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    639
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken
    Was there a Captain-Commander? I suppose there wasn't. Gotei 13 was probably formed the way it is now about 1,000 years ago, maybe after Bach's escape.
    Actually,there were other CC's,Yama-jii confirmed it when he said that the location of the Ouken(Soul Key)is passed verbally from one CC to another.So yeah,Yama-jii did form Gotei 13 1000 years ago,but beyond that there was another structure with Captain-Commanders.What kind of structure,however,is open to debate.

  10. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #54
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ogar555 View Post
    Okay, I don't believe I'm the only one to have noticed this but the following rings true in my head.
    Shunsui states that "Their combined power is greater than all of the Gotei 13 put together."

    So what is the Gotei 13?
    All the captains from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All vice captains from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All 3rd seats from the 1st to the 13th division.
    All 4th seats from the 1st to the 13th divsion.
    All 5th seats from the 1st to the 13th divison.
    And onwards, including every single shinigami in Soul Society.

    Now let me repeat that.

    "Their combined power is greater than all of the Gotei 13 put together."

    Notice the GREATER part.

    This means Zero Divsion > SS.
    The power difference between a captain and a vice-captain is massive.
    The power difference between a captain and a third-seat is unreal.
    The power difference between a captain and a fourth-seat and onwards, is probably unmeasurable.

    That's why there's no need to ponder on the all Gotei 13 thing, when the power inequality is like this:
    12 Captains >>> Rest of the Gotei 13

    ---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by g0dzax View Post
    Actually,there were other CC's,Yama-jii confirmed it when he said that the location of the Ouken(Soul Key)is passed verbally from one CC to another.So yeah,Yama-jii did form Gotei 13 1000 years ago,but beyond that there was another structure with Captain-Commanders.What kind of structure,however,is open to debate.
    Ah, sorry. It seems like I missed that one here, thanks for helping me out (=

  12. #55
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Country
    Sweden
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    The power difference between a captain and a vice-captain is massive.
    The power difference between a captain and a third-seat is unreal.
    The power difference between a captain and a fourth-seat and onwards, is probably unmeasurable.

    That's why there's no need to ponder on the all Gotei 13 thing, when the power inequality is like this:
    12 Captains >>> Rest of the Gotei 13

    ---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
    Sure, but he still claims the Zero Division > All of Gotei 13 combined.
    Roughly assuming that the three non-captains that has achieved ban-kai (Renji, Ikkaku and Sasakibe) and the rest of Gotei 13 combined would reach the power of two captains it would pretty much translate to: each of the ZD captains are accounting for the strength of more than 3 captains each.

  13. #56
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    727
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ogar555 View Post
    Sure, but he still claims the Zero Division > All of Gotei 13 combined.
    Roughly assuming that the three non-captains that has achieved ban-kai (Renji, Ikkaku and Sasakibe) and the rest of Gotei 13 combined would reach the power of two captains it would pretty much translate to: each of the ZD captains are accounting for the strength of more than 3 captains each.
    don't forget that the power among Captains is not similar. there are stronger Captains and there are others. there are already some Captains who can take out multiple Captains. so it would not be a surprise if each member of Zero Squad posses a power enough to defeat several Captains.
    Naruto Forever


  14. #57
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ogar555 View Post
    Sure, but he still claims the Zero Division > All of Gotei 13 combined.
    Roughly assuming that the three non-captains that has achieved ban-kai (Renji, Ikkaku and Sasakibe) and the rest of Gotei 13 combined would reach the power of two captains it would pretty much translate to: each of the ZD captains are accounting for the strength of more than 3 captains each.
    Ah, you're right. The bankai users will have to be considered.
    Now, I'll try coming up with some math.

    Let's assume every captain has a power coefficient of 1, except the seniors, who are roughly twice as powerful.
    If we say the rest also totals a coefficient of 2, they total up to 17, and that would mean, every Royal Guard would have to be around 3,4 to make the evaluation correct.
    That's about 1,7 senior captain by calculation.

    Now, it looks like in a Shikai battle, Kyouraku and Ukitake could hold their own against Captain-Commander, because I'm assuming they weren't willing to die fighting a pointless battle, although there was no other option to go for.
    Sure, Captain-Commander with Bankai was unreal, but we haven't seen a senior's Bankai yet. For a fair comparison considering experience, Sasakibe, who had at least the experience of senior captains or perhaps more than that, had an immensely powerful Bankai.
    So, I will still refer to Captain-Commander as twice as strong as a senior captain for now.

    That means the final coefficients will look like:
    Captain-Commander: 4
    Royal Guards: Roughly around 3.4, some may be a bit stronger, some may be a bit weaker.
    Senior captains Kyouraku, Ukitake and Unohana: 2
    Other captains: 1
    Rest of the Gotei 13: 2

    I'm not sure if I have come up with something reasonable here, but I gave it a go.

  15. #58
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Country
    Sweden
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Ah, you're right. The bankai users will have to be considered.
    Now, I'll try coming up with some math.

    Let's assume every captain has a power coefficient of 1, except the seniors, who are roughly twice as powerful.
    If we say the rest also totals a coefficient of 2, they total up to 17, and that would mean, every Royal Guard would have to be around 3,4 to make the evaluation correct.
    That's about 1,7 senior captain by calculation.

    Now, it looks like in a Shikai battle, Kyouraku and Ukitake could hold their own against Captain-Commander, because I'm assuming they weren't willing to die fighting a pointless battle, although there was no other option to go for.
    Sure, Captain-Commander with Bankai was unreal, but we haven't seen a senior's Bankai yet. For a fair comparison considering experience, Sasakibe, who had at least the experience of senior captains or perhaps more than that, had an immensely powerful Bankai.
    So, I will still refer to Captain-Commander as twice as strong as a senior captain for now.

    That means the final coefficients will look like:
    Captain-Commander: 4
    Royal Guards: Roughly around 3.4, some may be a bit stronger, some may be a bit weaker.
    Senior captains Kyouraku, Ukitake and Unohana: 2
    Other captains: 1
    Rest of the Gotei 13: 2

    I'm not sure if I have come up with something reasonable here, but I gave it a go.
    Exactly my thoughts, but my laziness prohibited me from writing it all.
    And coming to the same conclusion it would likely mean that at least one of them is on par or stronger than CC and the rest just pretty much kickass anyway.

    Although bringing myself back to reality and the fact that there is no regard as to what period in time Shunsui refers to. Is he talking about when Aizen was still captain? Or is it after Kensei and Rose have replaced the lost captains? Or is it actually the present? With the CC dead and most of SS in shambles this doesn't amount to even a slightly terrifying mass of power.

    It will be interesting to see what comes up next. I mean, we only have these two last chapters to go by.

  16. #59
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ogar555 View Post
    Sure, but he still claims the Zero Division > All of Gotei 13 combined.
    Roughly assuming that the three non-captains that has achieved ban-kai (Renji, Ikkaku and Sasakibe) and the rest of Gotei 13 combined would reach the power of two captains it would pretty much translate to: each of the ZD captains are accounting for the strength of more than 3 captains each.
    VC, 3rd seats and so on are... irrelevant. Captains are over 90% of SS strength. It doesn't matter if he said captains or all SS, because in terms of power, captains are pretty much everything SS got. (Abarai and Ikkaku aren't sooo strong. But that's why I wrote 90% instead of 98.)

  17. #60
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zaphkiel
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,208
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ogar555 View Post
    Exactly my thoughts, but my laziness prohibited me from writing it all.
    And coming to the same conclusion it would likely mean that at least one of them is on par or stronger than CC and the rest just pretty much kickass anyway.

    Although bringing myself back to reality and the fact that there is no regard as to what period in time Shunsui refers to. Is he talking about when Aizen was still captain? Or is it after Kensei and Rose have replaced the lost captains? Or is it actually the present? With the CC dead and most of SS in shambles this doesn't amount to even a slightly terrifying mass of power.

    It will be interesting to see what comes up next. I mean, we only have these two last chapters to go by.
    I don't think Koyuraku was referring to the time back when Aizen was also a captain. There is no need to include Aizen in this discussion at the moment, I guess
    On the other hand, I initially thought this was about present with Captain-Commander gone, but with Kenpachi and Byakuya out of action also, plus, SS losing a massive number of Shinigami, that'd undermine the power Royal Guards possess. They'd roughly end up around senior captain level with all these losses taken into consideration.

    I agree. We need more to elaborate on any theory.

    ---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    VC, 3rd seats and so on are... irrelevant. Captains are over 90% of SS strength. It doesn't matter if he said captains or all SS, because in terms of power, captains are pretty much everything SS got. (Abarai and Ikkaku aren't sooo strong. But that's why I wrote 90% instead of 98.)
    I assigned a 2 captain power to the rest of SS, though even this may be a bit optimistic. Still, considering they cannot combine this power to act as a captain, their respective powers on their own is nothing compared to captain.
    If 13 squads combine for a power of 6 captains, it's around half of a captain's strength for an entire squad. As I point out, even this may be a bit optimistic.
    Nevertheless, assigning them a zero would be a bit too harsh (=

New Reply
Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts