Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Celebrate MH's birthday and the RETURN OF MANGA!! Start downloading, translating and scanlating manga HERE - legally!
Like us on Facebook, Follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year of MH and check out our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga: (4/7/14 - 4/13/14).
Site News: Check out our new sections: Nisekoi and Kingdom
Events: Nominate and vote for the winners in the Seinen Awards!
Translations: Gintama 489 by kewl0210 , One Piece 744 by cnet128 , Naruto 672 by aegon-rokudo , Bleach 576 (2)

View Poll Results: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    6 37.50%
  • No

    10 62.50%
  • Not Sure

    0 0%
New Reply
Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 230

Thread: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

  1. #121
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    696
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    I'd say in terms of raw reatsu, the RG beat old man Yama, but then again the Royal Guard seem to have mostly healing/beneficial powers (good luck guarding the soul king with your HOT SPRING OF DOOM!), whereas Yama had focussed his Reatsu solely on destruction - the fire Zanpakuto symbolises that, fire being the classic element associated with destruction. So I'd say in a straight up fight, then Yama would beat at least some of the RG, possibly all of them, however in terms of raw 'power', the Royal Guard are stronger. My 1.2377p

    Epic Brofist!

  2. #122
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    ~Nyaa
    Country
    Turkey
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,669
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [FEATURED] Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    A sharp sword strike to the NECK is very capable of killing strong characters. A speed tier like Ichigo could possibly do to Yama what he did to Shaz Domino.
    Think by Shounen perspective, not real life logic.
    Which significant battle ended with a sword strike to the neck? Call it whatever you want, but it's never happening, so, a delusive idea indeed.

    ---------- Post added at 02:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    Isn't Yama vs Aizen is supposed to be on Ranking of captains's thread? Oh well...
    It was..
    Anyway, as late as it can be, we shall stop here. Please, no more posts about Aizen in this thread, since Aizen doesn't have any common points in explaining the power level comparison between Captain-Commander and the Royal Guards.

    For future discussion about how Aizen would rank, use the power level thread. There is also a thread in the fantasy thread subsection regarding this, so, shouldn't be a problem if you move the discussion to that place, too.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    Last edited by Hakuteiken; December 23, 2012 at 03:56 AM.

  3. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  4. #123
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    Water Tribe
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [FEATURED] Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    It was..
    Anyway, as late as it can be, we shall stop here. Please, no more posts about Aizen in this thread, since Aizen doesn't have any common points in explaining the power level comparison between Captain-Commander and the Royal Guards.
    Seconded. I moved the posts about Aizen vs Yamamoto to Ranking of Captains thread. Please try to keep the discussion limited to Yamamoto vs Royal Guards.

  5. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  6. #124
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [FEATURED] Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Think by Shounen perspective, not real life logic.
    Which significant battle ended with a sword strike to the neck? Call it whatever you want, but it's never happening, so, a delusive idea indeed.

    ---------- Post added at 02:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 AM ----------



    It was..
    Anyway, as late as it can be, we shall stop here. Please, no more posts about Aizen in this thread, since Aizen doesn't have any common points in explaining the power level comparison between Captain-Commander and the Royal Guards.

    For future discussion about how Aizen would rank, use the power level thread. There is also a thread in the fantasy thread subsection regarding this, so, shouldn't be a problem if you move the discussion to that place, too.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    What do you think I've being doing? http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...26-page-6.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-10.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...09-page-3.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...09-page-5.html

    ---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

    In regards to the thread, I've gonna say.

    Without a zanpakuto, a master of the shinigami arts will have roughly the same limits. They can't surpass that limit (atleast not easily & not without a strange method).

    With the zanpakuto, the shinigami will develop specialties (or amplify a specialty) , such as Speed (Ichigo), Perception (Aizen), Destructive force (Yamamoto), Raw Strength (Komamura), Striking Force (Gin), Finesse or versatility (Byakuya), Combat Speed (Ichigo), Assassination (Soifon) & blah blah etc.

    You use experience, control & etc to make best use of these.

    That is one of the reasons I said Yama can be oppose by several individuals. Yamamoto is a master of the shinigami arts & his zanpakuto amplifies his destructive force.
    Another shinigami subjected to the limits of one whose Zanpakuto doesn't amplify his/her destructive force isn't gonna wanna confront Yamamoto in direct combat unless that person is suicidal.

    The zero squad consist of 5 members only & these five members are responsible for protecting GOD & The Royal Palace. It's a little out of place to think these people haven't master the skills of the shinigami & their speciality (zanapkuto) isn't it? These guys will have to clean up SS mess if SS are unable to handle their mess so that must mean they must be more than qualified correct? Must they not have the skills to pay the bills?

    In fact I think it's possible that these five exceeded Yamamoto because Kirio mention something about doing things to match God's standards. "Our way of doing things encompasses the Spirit King's power along with the millenniums of history behind SS. Compared to Seireitei though we're in a completely different lvl." I think it's possible the King blessed them.

    So far these guys (no matter how goofy they look & act sometime or no matter how halfassed they behave) have been on point with the objective without any delays (rebuild SS).

    That's some of the reasons I think these guys are 5 Yamamotos or above.

  7. #125
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    711
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    I think Yamamoto had the power but not the contribution to be granted a place in the Royal Guard. So if you are looking at combat power alone, he may be comparable or even stronger than some of the RGs. But to be incorporated into the RG, he would need to have contributed something that changed the history of Soul Society.

  8. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  9. #126
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Country
    Russian Federation
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    430
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    I think Yamamoto had the power but not the contribution to be granted a place in the Royal Guard. So if you are looking at combat power alone, he may be comparable or even stronger than some of the RGs. But to be incorporated into the RG, he would need to have contributed something that changed the history of Soul Society.
    He found the shino academy, a great contribution indeed considering the fact that many captains are graduated from it (shunsui, Uki, tousen, Hitsu...) not to mention thousands of other shinigami. Without the academy, the gotei 13 wouldn't be as strong as it is.

  10. #127
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member espadaboyzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Country
    Malaysia
    Posts
    394
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    IMO... Yamaji is stonger than RG if one on one fighting. I agree with River_Capulet about Yamaji contribute something to SS which is shinigami academy, honestly it's huge contribution from him. I think why he's not be RG because Soul King want him to protect SS or perhaps Yamaji dont want to be RG because he is not interested. I hope kubo will explain something in the future.

    Whatever it is... we should wait how powerful is RG is in term of strength, ability & technique. And then we can have some idea if Yamaji stronger than RG or not.

  11. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  12. #128
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Slovakia
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,373
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Kay3795: You haven't disproven Hakuteiken's claim that no battle ended with beheading. What you show are battles where head/neck is attacked, but unsuccessfully

    Aside from that, you always claim that becoming a master of shinigami arts would make anyone equal to Yama (or something like that). Why not... but that's hard to do, because:
    1. Yama was constantly pushing the limit named mastery further (take the formation of ZT East-North-West-South, plus he probably always trains to not get rusted etc.).
    2. There's a factor called talent or rate of improvement. There's no doubt Yama's is large, since he was the leader of shinigami when he was young, too, so he must've exceeded even comparably old shinigami, which had about the same time to improve. It may not be as high as for some other individuals (like Gin), but nevertheless hardly paralleled.

    Those 2 things make reaching Yama's level (if he was still alive) incredibly hard using normal means (Hougyokuifying for example doesn't count). The only possibility I see for RG keeping up with the hype is the not normal means, and not just regular mastery.
    REVOLUTION! FREEDOM!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  13. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  14. #129
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    Kay3795: You haven't disproven Hakuteiken's claim that no battle ended with beheading. What you show are battles where head/neck is attacked, but unsuccessfully

    Aside from that, you always claim that becoming a master of shinigami arts would make anyone equal to Yama (or something like that). Why not... but that's hard to do, because:
    1. Yama was constantly pushing the limit named mastery further (take the formation of ZT East-North-West-South, plus he probably always trains to not get rusted etc.).
    2. There's a factor called talent or rate of improvement. There's no doubt Yama's is large, since he was the leader of shinigami when he was young, too, so he must've exceeded even comparably old shinigami, which had about the same time to improve. It may not be as high as for some other individuals (like Gin), but nevertheless hardly paralleled.

    Those 2 things make reaching Yama's level (if he was still alive) incredibly hard using normal means (Hougyokuifying for example doesn't count). The only possibility I see for RG keeping up with the hype is the not normal means, and not just regular mastery.
    I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about. Hakuteiken wanted me to think Shounen (bleach logic) that people simply don't go for head-shots & etc to kill an opponent. The first link I provided says they do (Sternritter Shaz Domino one-shotted by a sharp striking attack to the eye. Instant kill).

    The new breed of shinigami captains are all geniuses (atleast in comparison to the old). Aizen at a young age is already strongest than most & he attain the shinigami master rank FAR earlier than Yamamoto (in fact nothing says Yama had a huge of a talant tbh, atleast compared to the new gen. He is old & experienced war veteran who still had things to learn 1000 years ago).

    & yes I know being a master of shinigami arts is not easy to achieve (Hence only Aizen is the only gotei captain member that achieved that same rank).
    & only a handful of people can oppose the old man (He ain't the strongest, wasn't meant to be the strongest, doesn't have to be the strongest).

  15. #130
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    ~Nyaa
    Country
    Turkey
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,669
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Actually, I asked you about significant battles. We have seen Shaz Domino for a panel? Three at most. I don't think it's anywhere being significant as a battle.
    Ichigo vs Byakuya. Byakuya uses Byakurai, but instead of blowing Ichigo's head off with Kidou, he goes to the chest area.
    Ichigo vs Ulquiorra. Practically the same. Ulquiorra could have blown up his head with Cero Oscuras. No attack to head again.
    Ichigo vs Aizen. Ichigo rips apart Aizen's chest after speedblitzing him, not goes for a head shot (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure).
    Kyouraku vs Starkk. When Kyouraku was distracted by Wonderweiss, Starkk shot him from behind, but not in the head.
    These are the instances that could be game over with a strike to head, but it wasn't to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795
    The new breed of shinigami captains are all geniuses (atleast in comparison to the old). Aizen at a young age is already strongest than most & he attain the shinigami master rank FAR earlier than Yamamoto (in fact nothing says Yama had a huge of a talant tbh, atleast compared to the new gen. He is old & experienced war veteran who still had things to learn 1000 years ago).
    Captain-Commander had a huge talent compared to the new generation. That's why the enemy boss Juha Bach went to fight him and not the others. That's a very simple deduction.
    Then, nothing suggests the new breed to be on par, either.

    Shinigami arts aren't mastered easily. Please don't make it sound like it's just the natural process of time and one day all current Gotei captains will become a master of the Shinigami arts. In fact, in all likelihood, they won't.
    It still doesn't really add to the argument, though. We haven't even seen if Royal Guards have mastered the Shinigami arts or not. All we have seen is their contributions to the backbone of Soul Society helped them get promoted to the Royal Dimension as an elite Shinigami group. Anything beyond that is purely theorizing something new without any indication.

  16. #131
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    Water Tribe
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    IMHO what Aizen meant was that he was close to his own limits regarding to mastery of shinigami arts. Everybody has different levels of talent in various categories, for example Aizen failed to cast a full-powered hadou #90 without incantation whereas Yamamoto managed to cast hadou #96 which means Yamamoto's upper limit may be higher than Aizen's in that particular category. It's a strong possibility that senior captains and Royal Guards are close to their own limits too but it doesn't mean they're equally skillful in all shinigami arts. For example shunpo seems to be Kirinji's forte, so he is expected to perform better than his fellow captains in that category. Even though two persons are equally talented, if one of them has more reiatsu than the other, he'll have the advantage in battle. There are various factors that determine the overall combat ability of a shinigami, I don't think excelling in one category lets someone trump all others, it's more complicated than that. It's still too early to talk about the various strengths of Royal Guards, they're no doubt strong but we are kinda in the dark about their overall level. We don't even know if Shunsui was talking about present or past tense, were Royal Guards still stronger than Gotei 13 when Yamamoto, Aizen, Urahara, Yoruichi were in the divisions? Our information about them is very ambiguous at this point.

  17. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
    Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  18. #132
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Actually, I asked you about significant battles. We have seen Shaz Domino for a panel? Three at most. I don't think it's anywhere being significant as a battle.
    Ichigo vs Byakuya. Byakuya uses Byakurai, but instead of blowing Ichigo's head off with Kidou, he goes to the chest area.
    Ichigo vs Ulquiorra. Practically the same. Ulquiorra could have blown up his head with Cero Oscuras. No attack to head again.
    Ichigo vs Aizen. Ichigo rips apart Aizen's chest after speedblitzing him, not goes for a head shot (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure).
    Kyouraku vs Starkk. When Kyouraku was distracted by Wonderweiss, Starkk shot him from behind, but not in the head.
    These are the instances that could be game over with a strike to head, but it wasn't to be.



    Captain-Commander had a huge talent compared to the new generation. That's why the enemy boss Juha Bach went to fight him and not the others. That's a very simple deduction.
    Then, nothing suggests the new breed to be on par, either.

    Shinigami arts aren't mastered easily. Please don't make it sound like it's just the natural process of time and one day all current Gotei captains will become a master of the Shinigami arts. In fact, in all likelihood, they won't.
    It still doesn't really add to the argument, though. We haven't even seen if Royal Guards have mastered the Shinigami arts or not. All we have seen is their contributions to the backbone of Soul Society helped them get promoted to the Royal Dimension as an elite Shinigami group. Anything beyond that is purely theorizing something new without any indication.
    Pay attention (I swear I keep saying that these days lol). Byakuya did the logical thing. He stabbed Ichigo in the foot, in order to prevent his entire body from moving http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-11.html
    Then he stabbed Ichigo with Byakurai to the chest to paralysis & since Ichigo couldn't move the entire body http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-12.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-15.html (if Byakurai were aimed at the head, Ichigo will have much much greater chances to react & dodge by moving his head to the side because that's how the body system flows), then he went for the kill (head shot) http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-17.html only to be stopped by Ichigo's hollow power.

    Ulquiorra engulfed Ichigo's entire being with CO http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...60-page-3.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...60-page-4.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...60-page-8.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...60-page-9.html
    Then there is the whole deal of him wanting to teach Ichigo despair http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...0-page-19.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-11.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-12.html
    He wanted Orihime to witness that same despair http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-21.html http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...1-page-22.html A very terrible example for you to use.

    Ichigo obliterated Aizen. He literally cut him in half http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...34-page-3.html but Aizen is an immortal http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...36-page-4.html

    Stark is not a blood thursty killer. He doesn't even like to fight (the espada are influenced by their theme of death, it shapes their character). http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-10.html

    Captain commader is a old dude over 2000 years old. He had all the time in the world to get as strong as he did while the new gen consist of characters who are 100 - 200years old. Juha going for him makes sense since he is the oldest, the head captain, most experienced, the strongest, history of SS itself & he is the enemy he oppose over 1000 years ago.

    It ain't mastered easily & I said just that (don't know why you should repeat it). Aizen (much much much younger than Yama) is a master of said art. The Royal Guards consist of members who protect God (make a wild guess). Is their contributions the only reason they were promoted? NOO!! They are also there because they have the skills to protect the soul palace. They (5 members alone) are stronger than the entire gotei 13 (Head captain, Captains, Vice captains, Kido squad & the 1000s even possibly 10th of 1000 of shinigamis).

  19. #133
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Country
    Spain
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    I suppose so, since Juha Bach one-hit Yamamoto but ordenered retreat before squad 0's arrival.

  20. #134
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hakuteiken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    ~Nyaa
    Country
    Turkey
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,669
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    I replied about our little discussion about beheading in the hangout thread. You're welcome to drop by and discuss.
    Let's keep it limited to Captain-Commander and the Royal Guards only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    It ain't mastered easily & I said just that (don't know why you should repeat it). Aizen (much much much younger than Yama) is a master of said art. The Royal Guards consist of members who protect God (make a wild guess). Is their contributions the only reason they were promoted? NOO!! They are also there because they have the skills to protect the soul palace. They (5 members alone) are stronger than the entire gotei 13 (Head captain, Captains, Vice captains, Kido squad & the 1000s even possibly 10th of 1000 of shinigamis).
    I mean, I just can't figure it out how you can assume they weren't just promoted for their contributions alone. It looks like they are all geniuses or something close to it, and even someone with excellent intellect like Urahara just looks like a copycat at the moment.
    Again, I'm not making a suggestion here about their actual power level, but say, if someone with less power made a contribution of that scale, how could we be so sure that he wouldn't get promoted?
    I would say he would be promoted. I don't see a reason for Royal Guards to be excessively powerful in terms of sheer strength just to protect a seemingly impenetrable separated dimension.

  21. #135
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is Yamamoto Weaker than the Royal Guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I replied about our little discussion about beheading in the hangout thread. You're welcome to drop by and discuss.
    Let's keep it limited to Captain-Commander and the Royal Guards only.



    I mean, I just can't figure it out how you can assume they weren't just promoted for their contributions alone. It looks like they are all geniuses or something close to it, and even someone with excellent intellect like Urahara just looks like a copycat at the moment.
    Again, I'm not making a suggestion here about their actual power level, but say, if someone with less power made a contribution of that scale, how could we be so sure that he wouldn't get promoted?
    I would say he would be promoted. I don't see a reason for Royal Guards to be excessively powerful in terms of sheer strength just to protect a seemingly impenetrable separated dimension.
    Well we know they don't get promoted only because of contributions. Each member govern their own individual cities in the Royal Realm & there duty was made clear when Kirinji speedblitz Soifon. A bunch of noobs (even if they made the most contributions) ain't gonna be in the Royal Realm no matter what.
    They are not only resposible for the protecting of the Royal Realm, they also would clean un SS mess when SS is destroyed. To protect you need power.

New Reply
Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts