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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Itach0r of course!
Minat0r cause he's Batman!
Same with Itach0r and Minat0r.
Minat0r is not Minato. If it was Minato, Minato would have the most votes just because of fans.Quote:
Itach0r has the ultimate defense that he can summon in a jiffy, and Izanagi.Quote:
If kishi said that minato is the strongest ninja among the dead then I believed in him. That's include your madara.
It's not really a blind fanbase, because if kishi said it, then it's true. And not some opinion from my fellow readers.
Coz' as far as I know, your opinion and all of itachi's fans opinion about minato is <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< kishi's opinion.
No amount of reasoning could get to minato's fans? What the hell is that? So if you said that minato is no match to itachi, then do you expect us to believe you? Why? Who are you anyway? Are you kishi? Does all of your opinion came from kishi himself? Or it's just your opinion?
Honestly, I can't understand you people, all of itachi's fans are thinking highly to their opinion as if it's true even though they're contradicting to kishi's opinion. You put your opinion above than kishi.
Yeah, itachi is strong. But if kishi never said that itachi is stronger than minato, then he's not. This is his manga. If he said it then that's a fact.
And we never seen the true strength of minato. His caliber as a ninja or his sets of jutsus. So after kishi would shown everything from minato, then maybe we can accept your reasoning. If kishi said that minato is no match to itachi then I'll gonna agree on your opinion. But for now, don't make your opinion as a fact and above to minato's fans opinion. Because it isn't funny at all.
If you really belive Minato is/was above even EMS Madara(rinnegan Madara is just lol) then i really have no idea what to say... Minato almost got a draw with a stupid kid like Obito... One that was missing a bloody eye.... A guy who only used 1 jutsu that entire fight... But of course Minato is above Madara's level because Kishi at some poing stated something for his Minato fanbase... To bad that Manga >>>>>>>> His own casual talk about thte manga. Heh even Hashirama... To belive Minato was above Hashirama... I MEAN LOL... That guy defeated perfect Susano + 9 tails but Minato is somehow above that guy... OK.
Then to prove how completly ridiculous and completly irrelevant your entire premise is ... Well... Rikudo Sennin is among the dead to.. Gues Minato is > RS when Madara trowing Meteors around and Nagato creating small moons to capture the 9 tails are stated as nothing more then a fragment of RS's power... The same man who had the bloody 10 tails in him, could create the Moon in the sky, create crep out of nothing and so on.
Sorry but nothing and i mean nothing beats Minato fans worship of this caracter.
But we are getting off topic here. Thing is i have no idea what you people are debating here or better said i don't see where the fun is in making up stuff about this 2 caracters. If they had fixed parameters on what they can do... I am all for that but this is just making up a fanfic. Nothign wrong with it of coruse but its not my cup of tea.
Last edited by xXan; December 03, 2012 at 10:24 AM.
Same genjutsu ability that lets Uchihas bind bijuus to their will
lol what kind of reasoning is that?Quote:
One votes for the one he believes it will win, Minato or Minat0r doesn't make a difference, considering one is a character and the other is the same character on steroids and with the most haxed abilities ever.
Still slower than Hiraishin, and still can't break fuuinjutsus, and still can't dodge the Death God seals made by copies who can teleport, Izanagi or notQuote:
---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------
-limitations on Hiraishin
-the opponent in a favourable situation against him
In the manga, knowledge of Hiraishin was akin to none, the best info they had was someone who fought/ has seen fight Yondaime more than once ( Raikage and Kumo fodders ).
Say someone faces him without knowledge of Hiraishin, the guy launches a kunai, the enemy dodges/parry, Hiraishin + Rasengan gg.
Kishi made him one of the most haxed and cheap characters ever, and made it so that one of the most useless tool of a ninja ( a kunai ) becomes one of the deadliest weapons ever. Not everyone has the endurance the Raikages have, and Hiraishin is faster than everything sans Obito's own S/T jutsu.
Its pretty similar to Amaterasu actually, without info on it how the hell can you expect to dodge it, without sensing abilities ( and even then, you have to be accustomed to it ) ? Why do you think everyone who fought either Itachi or Sasuke had the perfect counter for it or had to have the plot on his side ( Bee's case ) ? With Yondaime its the same, exact thing
To keep it simple: Kishimoto is a human being just like you and me and human beings tend to have flaws. Naruto is a veeeeery long ongoing series that started when I was in my teens and now look at my age beneath my avatar. Kishimoto makes this up on the fly, he doesn't have a grand master plan but instead only some key story points which he builds around.
Even if Kishimoto said Minato is the strongest among the dead guys years ago, because you can't take his word for granted. This story is like the inside of a lava lamp, its not solid but instead keeps on reshaping changing.
I don't know if this is true, but somewhere I've read that Kishimoto actually planned on letting Obito dominate Minato, but then he changed his mind because his own child was born and he spontaneously decided to give Naruto awesome parents, because thats how he felt at the moment. Thats a good example of how malleable this story is.
Doubting every word of the author is bullshit, but blindly believing into everything he said at some point of time without using ones own brain is just as bad.
This topic is for arguing for the sake of arguing... use your inner hype and bias to fuel the power of the G0d you've sworn allegiance to and be caught into an eternal struggle just like those two all-powerful entities!Originally Posted by xXan
Oh, and of course for use of lots of 0000000000000's
Let's brake it down. MADARA(EMS only lol). Let's asume he is not going to play around like an idiot and AT LEAST USE A PRIMITIVE version of SUSANO. Now what? Its game over for Minato.
Hashirama. So Minato get's the drop on him? SO? Going by what Madara stated and Tsunade showed he can heal from some insane damage... What is Minato going to do? Put a kunai in him? RASENGAN him? Come on.
Of course Minato is OP in some casses. Of course he can take a lot of them down but thing is not what i was addresing, that was how some specific caracters like Madara, Hashirama and RS (LOL RS himself if going by what he said). Even the 3'th Raikage (it was the 3'th with the super shield right?) and what exacly is Minato going to do? The manga is all about counters. I can even find more but what is the point?
Obito did knew about his lvl 1 ST (but not lvl 2). Still Minato figured him out fast and when both of them got the info on the table Minato won this very close fight by a inch AND because Obito did not know about ST lvl 2. Tobi does have a broken MS but compared to Madara, Hashirama and RS himself... Well he is just some stupid kid.
I am sure we both can find a huge list with people Minato can own, that is not the point. Point is the other guy said how he is above all the dead people like Madara, Hashirama and RS himself lol and that makes as much sense to me as a pig falling out of the sky. Madara could trow 1 of his huge Katons at the start forcing Minato to ST away or die (random example) or just put a Susano up...
So again, obviously he can take people down that don't know about his ST but tell me this, even asuming Madara/Hashirama/RS himself have NO INFORMATION on Minato and Minato has COMPLETE info on them can he win? That was the point. He made no sense claiming how he is above all the dead people because Kishi made some random comment.
EDIT: I almost forgot. Minato is the 3'th favorite of mine in this manga. People think i hate him but its actualy Naruto>JMan>Minato. Naruto is my number one caracter and probably you figured that one out with how i defened him anytime i can :P I love Minato and his caracter but putting him in a place he is not at just because its fandom makes no sense to me. Even if he could stomp Madara and Hashirama at the same time its not going to make him a better caracter (probably the other way around actualy).
I like debating but with facts. Just making up stuff... Well as i said its not my cup of tea and again i have no problem with you people doing it.
Last edited by xXan; December 03, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
And Naruto couldn't almost break it. He was nowhere near breaking the genjutsu. And Orochimaru did try breaking Itachi's eye genjutsu, but he failed because Itachi struck him before he was able to break the genjutsu. Same can happen to Minato, he can't react in time.
And despite what you think, I didn't post what I post to aggravate marshall313. I did it because it's the truth, Itachi can beat Minato. Itachi has superior genjutsu that no one was able to break out of so far, without Sharingan. Orochimaru came the closest, but he was hit before he did it successfully. People are just saying Minato would win because they like Minato, not because he can actually win. Hiraishin the only excuse people have for Minato beating Itachi, or his speed when speed is kinda useless against Itachi.
Good reasoning based on what I've seen. Many have come up with bad reasons for Minato winning, or haven't come up with decent reasons as to why he'd win. It's always "he's fast!" or "can break out of genjutsu!" or "he's immune to genjutsu!" or "HIRAISHIN! " Tons of votes for Minato tend to be fan votes. If it was up to ability, then more people would vote for Itachi because Itachi can take Minato out with his genjutsu. Though, take genjutsu and Mangekyo away, and it'd be a more even fight between two geniuses.Quote:
Minato and Minat0r have different powers. This poll isn't taken as seriously since it's Minat0r, not Minato.
why can't Itach0r break fuuinjutsu? And Itach0r can do bunshins as well, so good luck to MInat0r gettin the right Itach0r.Quote:
How can I compare their power if kishi has just a limited info on minato? How can I make a comparison to itachi's power to minato if the manga just shown 5 jutsus of minato compared to itachi's sets of jutsus? It doesn't make any sense at all. Comparing itachi's MS power and uchiha's jutsus to minato's hiraishin and rasengan is wrong and baseless.
The thing is, the manga stated that minato learned the specials sealing jutsus of the uzumaki clan and jiraiya said that minato is overflowing with techniques. So minato is still a dark horse in kishi's manga. If the kyubi recognized minato's key as te rikudou's sealing jutsu, then maybe minato must have other jutsu of rikudou. So I'm still waiting for this to happen in the manga. So that I'll know if minato can really kick itachi/madara's ass or not.
So until kishi said/shown us that itachi's caliber surpassed minato's caliber then my opinion still stand. Because I still believed in kishi for saying that minato has a bunch of uzumaki's special sealing jutsu that could protect or best counter to any uchiha's power, a rikudou's sealing jutsu that can sealed the juubi and his techniques that can trash any of his opponents.
---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------
I believed that minato, who has an amazing uzumaki's sealing jutsus, overflowing with techniques and the man who knows rikudou's jutsu can trash madara. Is it wrong?
Have you seen the entire caliber of minato to conclude that he's a freaking fodder to itachi, madara and hashirama? No? So how come you're so sure with your opinion?
Its not that we worship minato, but it's your fault for believing in a crap that minato has just the hiraishin and rasengan to his arsenal. You believed that minato is no match to itachi/madara because the manga has shown alotof uchiha's power but minato has just 4 or 5.
You honestly believed that minato is just limited to his hiraishin and rasengan, which is for me, a crap and baseless at all.
Itachi's caliber is already shown in the manga. We already knew his entire power. And for madara, well, maybe almost. But the point is, we haven't seen anything on minato's caliber. And the fact that kishi hinted us that minato has still a bunch of jutsus, special sealing jutsu of the uzumaki, and maybe a some of rikudou's jutsu, then it's baseless to compare minato to any character.
Did you see me stating he got a loss? No i said he almot got a draw with that guy. Yes he WON that fight but it was by a hair.
Overflowing with techniques... LOL! Do you have ANYTHING to support this? Any indication in the manga ASIDE from he is HOKAGE? JMan himself stated that whant makes a ninja great is NOT the number of techs one has. JMan was Minato's teacher and Minato would inherit his way of the ninja.Quote:
the man who knows rikudou's jutsu. Can you prove this? Well perhaps the sealing jutsus used on a biju but that is not limited to him.
who has an amazing uzumaki's sealing jutsus. He does but aside from the DG seal nothing that would stop Madara. Even asuming he would get Madara with that and it would not be a win... He dies.
Even when he could place one on Tobi the best he could do is remove the Kyuubi from his control.
Yes it is wrong.
Did not say he is fodder to any of those. I said he would lose. Now if you are refering to fights on the battleforums then yes he would be fodder to them but that is because we can use only things that where showed. When it comes to what we where debating curently like how he could do when we are more generous with his abilities and don't stick to his on screen showing things are diferently.Quote:
1-Teleporting ability for himself and others.
2-Opening rifts(yes its diferent then just teleporting like FRS is diferent from rasengan).
4-Seals to remove the control over Kyuubi.
7-special senses by putting his finger on the ground (a type of sensing jutsu).
8-a shield that can contain the Kyuubi. Did not display it but he was ready to use it but then Kushina used the one she had. We can asume he has.
9-insane shunshin no jutsu.
He did show some jutsus man.
No i don't belive that but i do belive those are his most powerfull weapons and if those fail then he is just about screwed.Quote:
We have seen ENOUGH of Minato's to base a conclusion that he has no bloody was of taking down Madara, Hashirama or RS himself. The only ones who keep going with "we did not see enough, Minato has a jutsu to 1 shoot the planet (exageration)" are die hard fans.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; December 04, 2012 at 01:55 AM.
What level though, if Oro could almost break his Sharingan's genjutsu?
And its your idea that Yondaime will be caught before he can make a move, but I'm not about to open that can of worms, and OP says he's immune anyway
And Yondaime can take him out with Hiraishin, so?Quote:
Its never said anywhere in the manga that Itachi > Yondaime, hell an enemy Itachi couldn't beat was fodderized in less than a chapter by Yondaime, despite genjutsu and things alike.
Because Kyuubi wasn't able to break Yondaime's fuuinjutsu until after 16 years, and Obito couldn't as wellQuote:
Obito was stabbeb.
Obito's arm fell.
Obito's control over the kyubi disappeared.
Obito hit by rasengan.
Obito run away.
And yet you interpret that scenario as won my minato by just a hair? Wow. What an awesome interpretation you got there pal. Yeah, that's exactly I can't understand itachi's fans logic at all. When itachi put orochimaru in genjutsu and cut off his hand, his fans stated that itachi trashed him, that itachi had an overwhelming victory in that scene. And yet this fight where minato clearly defeated obito in a fight they came into a conclusion that even if obito got trashed, got hit, minato just won by hair.
Jiraiya said that. That minato is overflowing with techniques. You know jiraiya? Minato's sensei? Yeah, he just said that in the manga.
You're just assuming that you knew the uzumaki sealing jutsu to conclude that it can't harm madara. But sorry pal, your assumption is ridiculous. Because for kishi's sake, the manga doesn't have any info in that matter.
The thing is, t'was kishi, jiraiya and raikage hinted us that minato isn't an ordinary ninja. That minato's caliber are far more better than the caliber we know. He isn't an ordinary ninja. That's what kishi was trying to tell us. So don't make any conclusion as if you already knows everything on minato's caliber. Stop saying that I'm wrong just because my opinion is different from yours. Don't accused us as a die hard fans where as it was you and some of itachi's fans who's trying so hard to troll minato.
When naruto would use ''that jutsu'' of minato, then it capable to destroy a country or enough to trash any uchiha, then I'm gonna laugh my ass in this thread.
No idea why i bother but yes it was a close win. Minato won the battle of speed by a hair. MINATO HIMSELF states how the one who is a split second faster is going to be the winner. You are the only one ignoring the manga and Minato's own words. It does not matter what Minato did after that Rasengan. From the point that Rasengan hit Obito the fight was won.
Show me where JMan stated Minato is overflowing with techs.
I am not the one asuming anything. PROVE IT HE HAS THAT. Show me ANY type of evidence on Minato's part that would sugest he has some super duper seal to stop Madara when i can't think of ANY seal in this entire manga(aside for DG but that would not be a win for Minato even if it worked) that would do SHIT to Madara (of course as long as Madara is fighting back) I can show you the best crep Minato could get by placing a seal on his worse enemy (Tobi) and what he could get trough that. You asume he has the God SEAL when he showed nothing to be considered so. Show ANY type of evidence.Quote:
Random praise like JMan was trowing around have been made to death in this manga. Its irrelevant.
That jutsu... Now that jutsu belongs to Minato... Now i see... Keep going you are almost to nonsense land.
Last edited by xXan; December 04, 2012 at 05:57 AM.
Though all in all, I could see it being a tie between Itach0r and Minat0r.
No, it's common sense considering he has not shown any kind of skills in genjutsu, and that he looks at his enemies in the eyes, even standing still. Orochimaru has some skills in genjutsu and even he had difficulty breaking Itachi's genjutsu. Why should Minato get benefit of doubt when he doesn't deserve it?
No, OP said Minat0r is immune to genjutsu on him. Izanagi is still valuable here since Itach0r can spam it. Tie.
No, that's like saying Itachi can take out Minato with the genjutsu he used on Orochimaru (or any genjutsu minus Tsukuyomi). Hiraishin is not an offensive jutsu, Minato won't be taking out anyone with it. Doesn't make him any less dangerous though. Same with genjutsu - only Tsukuyomi has been implied or shown to take out enemies. The only time a normal genjutsu worked was on Sakura, and Minato is much better than Sakura. And even if Itachi could use that feather genjutsu Kabuto used during the exam, I bet Minato will counter it. So yeah, Hiraishin and genjutsu won't be doing damage. TSukuyomi is the only genjutsu that can.Quote:
What? Talkin' about Tobi? Let's remember that Tobi didn't attack Konoha because of Itachi, while he didn't mind attacking Konoha and fighting Minato despite knowing about Hiraishin. So that basically means Itachi = Minato, since while Itachi never killed Tobi (no idea if he tried), Tobi never feared Minato.
And manga implies that Itachi > Minato due to genjutsu and Mangekyo, like I said. Minato can't dodge Amaterasu the first time - Raikage already knew about it so he was able to prepare and dodge. Same with Sasuke. Minato doesn't get benefit of doubt from Itachi's genjutsu since his genjutsu has been too powerful. Susano'o's defense will also be impenetrable, so Itachi won't have trouble if it comes to that. Not to mention, both are geniuses, especially Itachi, so Minato will have a hard time trying to trick or outsmart Itachi.
Just admit Itachi can and will beat Minato. there's no shame in admitting that, since nearly everyone would lost to Itachi. Minato can be Itachi's bitch and still be one of the best ninjas.
And once again, A > B, B > C, so A > C doesn't apply in Naruto. Otherwise I can genuinely say Itachi > Minato because Tobi feared Itachi but didn't mind fighting Minato when Tobi could have avoided fighting Itachi for different reasons altogether.
Show me where Minato's good at breaking genjutsu, and I'll probably reconsider him being able to beat Itachi. Since there is no shame in Itachi losing to Minato either, since Minato is actually a great shinobi as well.
Kyuubi is not a shinobi.Quote:
And what? What fuuinjutsu did Tobi try to break?
Unless you are suggesting that Itachi is better than Madara
As I said to xXan above, manga logic =/= arena logic, by arena logic Itachi >= Yondaime, by manga logic ( no full information, no nerfs ) Yondaime would probably end Itachi by launching a kunai and Hiraishining to him.Quote:
Of course Itachi can beat Yondaime, just like Yondaime can beat Itachi.
As for the Obito issue, he didn't fear Yondaime, yet he was owned. Hardly proves anything, except his own stupidity
You're right, Kyuubi is a being immensely more powerful than any shinobi, with a chakra so heavy a grown man with Kage-level chakra like Yondaime couldn't moveQuote:
Obito was subjected to the contract seal firstly and then Hiraishin seal secondly, wasn't unable to break both of them
The manga shows nothing on minato, but kishi hinted us that he knows a bunch of special, as in special, you know the, meaning of special right? Yeah, special sealing jutsu of the uzumaki clan. The clan who's masters of sealing jutsus. Where one of their seals is being recognized by kyubi as rikudou's seals.
So yeah, minato must know a god level seal like he used to kurama. It's an assumption but it isn't impossible at all.
It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. For all I care with that remarks. Who are you anyway? Kishi or a moderator?
Random praise of jiraiya? Jiraiya is minato's sensei. He knows minato's caliber. So how come it was irrelevant whereas he said that kind of praise as a fact that minato is overflowing with techniques? So, you're doubting that fact from the manga? You keep on looking for a manga fact, you keep on saying that without the manga scan/proof then it's irrelevant. Now that I give you a manga fact, it's still an irrelevant. What's wrong with you anyway? All of minato's stuff are irrelevant to your opinion.
The manga clearly said it, kushina admitted it, that minato has a bunch of uzumaki's sealing jutsu. Do I need to present a manga scan on this one?
Raikage said that minato learned the special sealing jutsus of the uzumaki clan. Do I need to present a manga scan on this one?
Kurama said that minato's key on naruto is one of rikudou's jutsu. Do I also need a manga scan on this one?
If that key is one of sealing jutsu of rikudou, and that key is a sealing jutsu of the uzumaki, do I need a manga scan to support my claim? Yes, but I don't have one. Does it make my claim as irrelevant? Hell Noh. It maybe an assumption, but for God's sake, it has alot of sense.
the thing is, I just want to pointed out that the zuzmaki clan isn't just an ordinary clan. They're a sealing experts. The monster of sealing jutsu. If minato knows a bunch of their jutsu, then it means that minato has a monster sealing jutsus in his arsenal. So making an assumption that the uzumaki clan has a powerful sealing to trash your madara or your beloved itachi isn't irrelevant or nonsense at alll. But if you want a manga scan, well, I don't have one, but for Pete's sake, it's a common sense.