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Itach0r of course!
Minat0r cause he's Batman!
So, it's naruto now who created the minato's key / rikudou's jutsu?
That's awesome. What's wrong with admitting that t'was minato who created that jutsu anyway? Or maybe that's what he learned from the uzumaki clan.
And maybe the rikudou is a myth for suna, iwa, and kiri. But for kumo and konoha, they exist and they know it.
Four Symbols Seal
First Databook page 190 "This is a sealing technique based on the fūinjutsu of Uzushiogakure. The sealing formula is used to seal any target into a human body or an object, and is mainly used when a giant enemy or evil spirit needs to be sealed away. To use it, it is necessary for the user to have great ability.
There is nothing here that say it's from RS, this is from the Databook thus, a direct statement from Kishimoto. With that said I really really don't see why i should believe your opinion or your assumption on those markings.
Minato right here says he will use the Eight Trigram Seal to bind the Kyuubi in Naruto
The Eight Trigram Seal is just the "Four Symbols Seal" used twice at the same time. Nothing more, nothing less.
This here is the "Torii Seal"
Thats a whole different thing from Minato's seal. Why do you have hard time comprehending that ?
Minato's seal is long broken. Naruto now uses the Torii Seal. And this is the seal Kurama made an allusion of RS for. God ! is that so hard to comprehend ?
Yes it's hard to believe, because there is no proof to support your statement while there is tons of proofs to negate it. When did Tobi say the RS passed these sealing techniques ? Who the hell said RS passed these things ? Good lord, all you saw is Kurama making an allusion about RS and you created all this nonsense and made it facts ? You guys are amazing !Quote:
Tobi said Rikudou Sennin passed down a ninjutsu that creates a jinchuuriki. And then Kyuubi says that the seal reminded him of Rikudou Sennin's. I see nothing that disproves Minato didn't use Rikudou Sennin's seal, especially since Naruto changed nothing about it. The difference is that he's the one who sealed his own seal again after beating the Kyuubi.
So there, there's that proof that Rikudou Sennin did pass down a ninjutsu. I don't see any proof to negate that he didn't, at least to his sons, which Uzumaki eventually picked up.
And if I recall, it was said that Minato used Four Elephants Seal, not Eight Trigram Seal, at least in Part I. No idea why that was changed, if it was, but whatever. Nothing disproves that it's not the seal Minato used... considering Naruto can't do seals at all. He only unlocked and locked his own seal, he didn't do anything else to it.
Dude the seal Naruto used was diferent then what Minato used. Naruto poped wood like element pillars from the sky to trap the Kyuubi. Then created a special cage. Minato had a diferent seal and it was like a prison with no cage but a wall and Kyuubi behind a gate.
RS did pass down the ability to seal a biju BUT what Naruto used its not what Minato used. Kyuubi was going oO at it. If Minato used the same seal then that would make no sense.
Naruto just used a plot no jutsu seal because he is Naruto.
As linked above by M3J:
The general way to seal a Biju was invented and passed down by RS himself. The diference comes from how diferently people use it, some better then others but the basics on how its achived originates from RS.
Its like a car. All the cars are cars but some are better/diferent then others.
Now what Naruto did and Kyuubi whent Oo its probably the same thing RS himself used to trap the 10 tails or something and its way superior to the rest. Now how the bloody hell Naruto could do something like that i have no idea but even the chapter itself its called "a new seal" its not Minato's seal.
Last edited by xXan; December 10, 2012 at 04:00 AM.
... I know that. Doesn't mean it was different. Maybe different effect occurs if Naruto seals it himself or after beating Kyuubi? Because we did see the cage few chapters later, right? It was quite similar to the cage that was associated with Minato's seal. Hell, the key that unlocked itself when Kyuubi became Naruto's buttbuddy was the same or moved the same way when Naruto unlocked the seal to steal Kyuubi's chakra.
Naruto didn't use anything, he just twisted his seal like Minato did in Naruto's mind, no? Kyuubi was probably shocked at how the effect was different, or something.
When Naruto released the Kuubi himself there was NO KEY. Also he had complete control over the Kage and could pop those wood things. There is no indication that Minato had the same seal. Why would Kurama even go Oo at it if Minato could do it? No Kurama noticed the sage in Naruto at that point. Going from his aspect to his seal.
Also the seal was OPPEN. The Kyuubi was OUTSIDE OF IT. That seal was GONE. Naruto used another seal as what Minato used was released. Its till used on his belly but its something new.
Even the chapter ITSELF states a NEW SEAL. Its damn obvious its another seal.
But, even so that has nothing to do with the seal Minato used. Yes it's the "Four Symbol Seal" the elephant seal is just a mistranslation.
But again Naruto used The Torii Seal not the Four Symbol Seal, Understand already.
The Kyuubi never stated that Minato's seal was in any way similar to the RS seal and when Naruto used the Torii Seal he had that WTF expression on his face.
That alone proves it's a whole different seal.
Naruto used a whole different seal that is much more powerful than Minato's seal, you can even look it up in the Wiki just type "Torii Seal".
not being provided with magical eyes or magical abilities, to decimate an army he had to use Hiraishin.
Raikage though he had Yondaime, yet we saw what happened if Itachi is marked he's dead, plain and simple.Quote:
Even he can't react to an instantaneous move
Itachi admitted Izanami is bad in a fight, if the condition is to "accept the right path" I don't doubt Yondaime ( pretty much like every good guy of a certain relevance ) would escape it.Quote:
Just like Naruto, Jiraiya and Hiruzen would
Kamui, like every other MS jutsu, consumes a lot more chakra and is way more difficult to use than a normal Sharingan Genjutsu.Quote:
Claiming genjutsu wasn't used because otherwise Yondaime would be beaten is right there with everything Yondaime fans come up with imo
Plot or not, its a fact that Obito couldn't ensnare Yondaime in a genjutsu, we can argue on the how and why
The Kyuubi one would set him apart the rest, since Uchihas normally would need MS to control Kyuubi.Quote:
He genjutsued Konan and Yamato as well, me thinks
I'm not a fan, I look at factsQuote:
And fact is Yondaime has no way to get out of Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu, considering no one tried to inflict pain on himself and he's not confirmed to have KB
Bee was in Bijuu Mode when Sasuke set him on fireQuote:
Point is, I doubt that chakra tentacle would be weaker than meat, considering Hachibi is a Bijuu, you know, a walking disaster and all that?
Susano'o activation is insanely fast, still yes, the only attack I can believe its fast is the Magatama.Quote:
I never saw the hate Yondaime receives here in any other boards, were he's hated as well ( apparently, unless you are odd like yours truly, you can't like an Uchiha and another character from Naruto's "family" )
Minat0r has clones too, and Itachi isn't Lord Madara, he can't tell clones apartQuote:
Stupidity or not, their number is too overwhelming.
No one escapes Minat0r and his Fuuinjutsu of doom
Wouldn't it be cool if Minat0r would seal Itachi in himself thanks to the Hakke Seal, becoming Itachi's Jinchuuriki?
---------- Post added at 04:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 AM ----------
-Naruto sudden mastery of Fuuinjutsu, putting him on the same level of his father
-Naruto opening and closing his seal with the Key provided by Yondaime, using the same method while having the same markings
-How the seal broke if Kyuubi was still inside Naruto, very much like now. The gates only protected Naruto from the Kyuubi chakra, once open the Kyuubi is still trapped. On the condition that Naruto can handle the chakra of course
^ if you can answer satisfactory on those three points above ( it would be best not to answer "plot no jutsu" since its not an answer ) then I'll agree on your point
No idea, Maybe the same way he surpassed Jiraya level in a couple of days training, despite not being able to do so in two years training. Or the way he surpassed his Father speed and reflexes.Quote:
He opened the "Eight Trigram Seal" with the key Minato left in Gerotora. But, he never closed it because it was already broken. Here Naruto subdue the Kyuubi with a new seal. and the chapter is titled "New Seal" for god sake.Quote:
Wait, i didn't really understand this question ? The seal broke but that doesn't mean the Kyuubi can go rampaging. He has to defeat Naruto to get out of his body or for Naruto to surrender himself to the Kyuubi, he can't just get out.Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; December 10, 2012 at 05:48 AM.
So, it's pretty obvious that naruto used minato's key to unlocked the kyubi's seal but at the same time it gives another seal to replaced the old seal.
The thing is, the rikudou never intended to split the juubi to nine bijuus to create a jinchuuriki. Even if he created the sealing jutsu to seal the juubi, what makes you think tat he'll going to passed that seal to anyone? He never created the bijuus as source of power to every nations. But if kurama recognized that seal as rikudou's seal, then its pretty obvious he seen that jutsu before.
The manga never said that minato's key is the sealing jutsu that rikudou used to seal the juubi, kurama just recognized those seal as rikudou's jutsu, nothing more.
---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 AM ----------
Gamatora stated that minato's key is a matched to naruto's hakke seal. T'was left by minato to reinforce the kyubi's seal.
So basically, minato's key isn't just for unlocking and locking the cage of kurama, but rather it's also a sealing jutsu to reinforce the hakke seal.
Maybe the reason why kurama recognized the new seal as rikudou's jutsu is simply because both the hakke seal and minato's key formed/created another new seal.
Hakke seal + minato's key = rikudou's jutsu.
Overall, minato is still the one who created/give naruto his new seal.
---------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------
It's stated that minato left the key's jutsu because he wants naruto to complete ''that jutsu''
So ''that jutsu'' isn't the bijuu mode, but rather, naruto needs his rm/bm to complete ''that jutsu''
But I'm just curious on what jiraiya said, does it mean that it was minato who designed naruto's rikudou mode? If that is the case, then minato's key isn't just a sealing jutsu to reinforced the kyubi's seal, but rather, it is also a design that minato created for naruto and the kyubi's chakra.
So there's no doubt t'was minato who created a jutsu that was recognized by kurama as rikudou's jutsu.
So what you are telling me is that Minato had what he needed to put Kurama in a better seal, his Hakke seal + key but he decided to use a worse seal and leave it to Naruto to use the better one later? Man he must be the bigges morong in this entire manga.
The key was just the way to open or adjust the Hakke seal. The thing does not create a new seal. How can a door and a key put togeder make a new door? It makes no bloody sense man.
in Sage Mode he had Pa to train him, with Chakra Mode he had to beat Kyuubi and steal his chakra, and then train with Bee.
I can't buy Naruto creating/learning such a perfect seal by nowhere, expecially since we saw the same marking the Key displayed on Naruto when he closed the seal
Who are we to say Hakke Seal was complete?Quote:
Again notice how Naruto closes the seal, same way Yondaime did when he appeared inside Naruto's mind.
If the seal breaks, the Kyuubi exits. All Naruto did was open it, allowing Kyuubi to exit the restriction placed on his chakra.Quote:
The bars only filters the Kyuubi chakra, it breaking doesn't mean the seal is broke, just like, again, how now Kyuubi is inside Naruto despite the bars and the gate disappearing
If anything then it points into the direction of my claim, since right upon using that key, Naruto turned into his glow-worm mode instead of the regular red jinchuriki shroud and there hasn't been any further talk about "that jutsu" ever since.
Minato knew that his hakke seal can't hold the kyubi forever. So he left his key jutsu to reinforce that seal. And I think there's another reason for that key jutsu, jiraiya stated that minato left that key jutsu design because he wants naruto to complete ''that jutsu''.
---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------
So for me, rikudou mode and ''that jutsu'' are entirely different. The rikudou mode of naruto or the control of kyubi's chakra is the requirements or needed to complete ''that jutsu''
The Gaiden did show that there wasn't always an army to fight, unless you count a four-man cell as army.
It really depends though. And while Itachi can't react to an instantaneous movement, it's irrelevant if Minato gets a clone instead of real Itachi.Quote:
Another reason to never use it in a fight. Even if it's a KA match against Kabuto that got put in Izanami.Quote:
From the looks of it, it doesn't consume much chakra at all or is that difficult. Obito was using it without being aware when he first unlocked his Mangekyo. And the fact that he can use it over and over and over shows something. And chakra wouldn't be the issue, since Tobi was probably trying to control the Kyuubi with his chakra and couldn't use genjutsu again as result. And not really, it's quite very much a possibility.Quote:
It's not a fact that he was unable to, it's a fact that he didn't try to. There's a difference there.
Could be attributed to chakra though. Madara was said to have oen of the strongest chakra even among Uchiha and Tobi has Hashirama's cells.Quote:
Yes, he did. Makes me wonder why he hasn't attempted genjutsu on others as well.
Pfft, you just go against the popular grain.Quote:
Not necessarily a fact, more like an unknown. We do know it's possible to get out of Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu since Orochimaru came close to doing so.
And it's a tentacle made of chakra, which all bijuu are made up of.
So Minato can still react to Susano'o's attacks.Quote:
Wut? Itachi and Jiraiya are my favorites, as is Part I Naruto. People just suck and whine too much about stuff.
Minat0r does? Still won't help against Itach0r with Susan0'0 and Izanami0r.Quote: