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View Poll Results: Who's going to win?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Itach0r of course!

    12 75.00%
  • Minat0r cause he's Batman!

    4 25.00%
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Thread: Itach0r vs. Minat0r

  1. #136
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Itach0r vs. Minat0r

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Where was it said he solo'd the war? And we only saw one instance where he chose to use Hiraishin. which probably shows that he doesn't have a powerful enough jutsu to take out a lot of enemies, which is not good against Itachi. though, this was probably before Kishi planned to turn Naruto into Naruto Ball Z.

    The Gaiden did show that there wasn't always an army to fight, unless you count a four-man cell as army.
    Do note how the "it will all happen in a flash" implies Yondaime ofter soloed the battlefield he was in, then of course there were sneaking missions.
    Considering he was capable of going alone on war missions, it proves he could handle everything on the battlefield.
    Let's not forget Tobirama was killed by a little squad of enemy Anbu

    Quote Quote:
    It really depends though. And while Itachi can't react to an instantaneous movement, it's irrelevant if Minato gets a clone instead of real Itachi.

    You're irrelevant.
    For Itachi to be able to do clones, he has to mask the handseals so Yondaime can't pick them up.

    I'm not only relevant, but knowledgeable at the same time

    Quote Quote:
    Another reason to never use it in a fight. Even if it's a KA match against Kabuto that got put in Izanami.
    Its not that easy to escape, basically you need to be able to take the right path, even if its lattered with death and sacrifice.
    Basically its an anti-villain jutsu

    Quote Quote:
    From the looks of it, it doesn't consume much chakra at all or is that difficult. Obito was using it without being aware when he first unlocked his Mangekyo. And the fact that he can use it over and over and over shows something. And chakra wouldn't be the issue, since Tobi was probably trying to control the Kyuubi with his chakra and couldn't use genjutsu again as result. And not really, it's quite very much a possibility.

    It's not a fact that he was unable to, it's a fact that he didn't try to. There's a difference there.
    I still think its pretty weak as an argument, but hey that's me

    How would we know he didn't try?
    He also didn't use Mokuton, doesn't mean he has to use everything he has knowing he would fail

    Quote Quote:
    Could be attributed to chakra though. Madara was said to have oen of the strongest chakra even among Uchiha and Tobi has Hashirama's cells.

    Yes, he did. Makes me wonder why he hasn't attempted genjutsu on others as well.
    Surely, but genjutsu, just like every other jutsu, is influenced by how much strong one's chakra is.
    Part 1 Sasuke wouldn't be able to genjutsu Manda even if he knew how to perform Genjutsu, for example.

    2 reasons: either Sharingan Genjutsu is overrated, or simply he didn't need to.
    Or maybe his mask got in the way if so then Obito really is stupid

    Quote Quote:
    Pfft, you just go against the popular grain.

    Not necessarily a fact, more like an unknown. We do know it's possible to get out of Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu since Orochimaru came close to doing so.
    With a shitload of time, yes.
    Point is Itachi can end the fight in a second, if he wanted to he would've killed Oro, not cut off his arm

    Quote Quote:
    And?

    And it's a tentacle made of chakra, which all bijuu are made up of.
    ^ Exactly, as such Yondaime's feat in strenght was pretty impressive, considering it was, apparently, only brute strenght

    Quote Quote:
    So Minato can still react to Susano'o's attacks.

    Wut? Itachi and Jiraiya are my favorites, as is Part I Naruto. People just suck and whine too much about stuff.
    When comparing him to his part 2 self, everyone likes part 1 Naruto

    Quote Quote:
    Minat0r does? Still won't help against Itach0r with Susan0'0 and Izanami0r.

    Useless. D:
    Yondaime creates a mighty erases called "Kishim0t0r's eraser" that will erase the Sharingan0r, Susano'0r and Izanami0r from the story

  2. #137
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Itach0r vs. Minat0r

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Considering Yondaime soloed that war, I think he used Hiraishin reasonably:
    not being provided with magical eyes or magical abilities, to decimate an army he had to use Hiraishin.
    Given the war lasted for several years, if Minato did solo the war, he did a horrible job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Itachi admitted Izanami is bad in a fight, if the condition is to "accept the right path" I don't doubt Yondaime ( pretty much like every good guy of a certain relevance ) would escape it.
    Just like Naruto, Jiraiya and Hiruzen would
    It's bad probably due to having to repeat the beginning and end actions, along with the lost of an eye. Given the way it was used against Kabuto, I doubt the specific condition is the same for everyone.

  3. #138
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Itach0r vs. Minat0r

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Quote Quote:
    ^ He accomplished the above while being trained by someone, or through unortodox methods:
    in Sage Mode he had Pa to train him, with Chakra Mode he had to beat Kyuubi and steal his chakra, and then train with Bee.
    I can't buy Naruto creating/learning such a perfect seal by nowhere, expecially since we saw the same marking the Key displayed on Naruto when he closed the seal
    Yeah well, Tobi is Obito. Your argument is invalid
    No but, seriously, Naruto doesn't have logic anymore.

    Quote Quote:
    Who are we to say Hakke Seal was complete?
    Again notice how Naruto closes the seal, same way Yondaime did when he appeared inside Naruto's mind.
    Who are we to say it's not ? Why should we even think that ?

    Again, The Torii Seal is derived from the Eight Trigram Seal and only make sense they function the same way, only the Torii Seal is better.

    Quote Quote:
    If the seal breaks, the Kyuubi exits. All Naruto did was open it, allowing Kyuubi to exit the restriction placed on his chakra.
    The bars only filters the Kyuubi chakra, it breaking doesn't mean the seal is broke, just like, again, how now Kyuubi is inside Naruto despite the bars and the gate disappearing
    The seal only opened when Naruto fought Pain too, and it didn't open fully but the Kyuubi was released. So what is your point ? That he only gets out if the seal breaks ? Wrong. Because again the Kyuubi got out once without the seal breaking. So it's more or less has to do with Naruto not the seal itself. That only shows how missed up the logic in Naruto is.

    But, i'm gonna ask two questions only :

    Why is the chapter titled "New Seal" ?

    And why was the Kyuubi shocked by the seal if he was imprisoned in it for 16 years ?

    Answer only to that.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; December 11, 2012 at 01:12 PM.

  4. #139
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Itach0r vs. Minat0r

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Do note how the "it will all happen in a flash" implies Yondaime ofter soloed the battlefield he was in, then of course there were sneaking missions.
    Considering he was capable of going alone on war missions, it proves he could handle everything on the battlefield.
    Let's not forget Tobirama was killed by a little squad of enemy Anbu
    The only time we saw him solo the battlefield he was in was against Iwa's fifty chuunins. Other than that, it's speculation. You'd think by then they'd come up with a way to counter Hiraishin.



    Quote Quote:
    For Itachi to be able to do clones, he has to mask the handseals so Yondaime can't pick them up.

    I'm not only relevant, but knowledgeable at the same time
    Why does it matter if Minato sees the hand seals or not? We even have a case where a Sharingan user or two couldn't see the handseals Itachi made for clones, even in middle of a shuriken battle. Even Mifune would fall to Itachi's handseal speed.

    If you say so.



    Quote Quote:
    Its not that easy to escape, basically you need to be able to take the right path, even if its lattered with death and sacrifice.
    Basically its an anti-villain jutsu
    Basically, it's an asspull that'll never be used. Though, Minat0r is immune to Izanami0r since it's cast on him0r, and genjutsu0r cast on Minat0r doesn't work0r.



    Quote Quote:
    I still think its pretty weak as an argument, but hey that's me

    How would we know he didn't try?
    He also didn't use Mokuton, doesn't mean he has to use everything he has knowing he would fail
    Considering that controlling the Kyuubi is way different than controlling someone, I don't see how it's weak. Otherwise why would Minato mention the time limit Madara had in controlling the Kyuubi with genjutsu?

    How would we know he did try? We know one way he didn't try - he never mentioned Minato's genjutsu skills at all. in fact, no one has ever mentioned his genjutsu skills at all. You only heard that Minato was the fastest or the most hard-working, but it's never been mentioned he was good in nin, tai, or genjutsu. ANd while we saw some feats in nin and taijutsu, we never saw feats in genjutsu. So you can't really prove that Minato would have withstood Tobi's genjutsu, especially when Konan, the Root, and Yamato failed.

    Or, Kishi didn't plan on Mokuton or Izanagi at the time. Mokuton could have still worked.



    Quote Quote:
    Surely, but genjutsu, just like every other jutsu, is influenced by how much strong one's chakra is.
    Part 1 Sasuke wouldn't be able to genjutsu Manda even if he knew how to perform Genjutsu, for example.

    2 reasons: either Sharingan Genjutsu is overrated, or simply he didn't need to.
    Or maybe his mask got in the way if so then Obito really is stupid
    It is, among other stuff. But that means Itachi has a super duper chakra because he was able to put nearly everyone in genjutsu and make it hard for them to break out of. Though, I don't think he has stronger chakra than Naruto, who failed against 30% clone. I have no idea if Naruto tried to break out any other time, but nothing indicates that.

    He could have, if he was skilled enough.



    Quote Quote:
    With a shitload of time, yes.
    Point is Itachi can end the fight in a second, if he wanted to he would've killed Oro, not cut off his arm
    True. And the amount of time it takes depends on who, though.



    Quote Quote:
    ^ Exactly, as such Yondaime's feat in strenght was pretty impressive, considering it was, apparently, only brute strenght
    Not really as it may be easy to break chakra tentacles. Plus, the kunai is pretty heavy, and wiht gravity, it'd do a lot of work.



    Quote Quote:
    Yondaime creates a mighty erases called "Kishim0t0r's eraser" that will erase the Sharingan0r, Susano'0r and Izanami0r from the story
    Itach0r counters the eraser0r with Izanagi0r before it works.

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