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Thread: Naruto 612 Discussion

  1. #286
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
    Genjutsu allows you to manipulate the flow of you're opponents chakra. Sage mode draws in the natural energy around a person to create Sage Chakra. It doesn't draw in chakra. How would it suffer twice the effect?
    He's probably thinking along the same way I was when I mentioned how Genjutsu SHOULD be the weakness of Sage Mode. Sage Mode requires PERFECT chakra control. A mixture of natural energy, spiritual energy, and physical energy. Then it all becomes Sage Chakra. And it doesn't simply stay that way. The ninja has to maintain focus (proven when Naruto instantly lost Sage Mode when Iruka called him his brother). Now what else do we know of that can alter a ninja's mindstate ASWELL as their chakra?

    Genjutsu. The ninja can't keep Sage Mode active if the chakra they used to mix with natural energy is disrupted. Can't mix your unstable chakra with natural energy? Can't make Sage Mode. This is how it SHOULD work. But ofcourse Kishimoto won't ever address this, just like he won't address the fact that Madara could've simply "turned off" Naruto's Kyuubi chakra at any moment. Canonly.

  2. #287
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    He's probably thinking along the same way I was when I mentioned how Genjutsu SHOULD be the weakness of Sage Mode. Sage Mode requires PERFECT chakra control. A mixture of natural energy, spiritual energy, and physical energy. Then it all becomes Sage Chakra. And it doesn't simply stay that way. The ninja has to maintain focus (proven when Naruto instantly lost Sage Mode when Iruka called him his brother). Now what else do we know of that can alter a ninja's mindstate ASWELL as their chakra?

    Genjutsu. The ninja can't keep Sage Mode active if the chakra they used to mix with natural energy is disrupted. Can't mix your unstable chakra with natural energy? Can't make Sage Mode. This is how it SHOULD work. But ofcourse Kishimoto won't ever address this, just like he won't address the fact that Madara could've simply "turned off" Naruto's Kyuubi chakra at any moment. Canonly.
    I'm not too convinced that Iruka was the cause of that, I saw it as Naruto simply releasing the chakra. I didn't think it required any sort of focus aside from the initial molding of the chakra. I mean from my understanding it all takes place in the point where he remains still. He has to balance all his chakra together, then he has a source to draw on, which gives him the sage mode appearance. So given that you conclude, that he simply changes his pool and genjutsu won't affect that at all. Hence why he has a time limit without someone constantly replenishing. Further evidence is how he loses SM after using FRS twice (ran out of sage chakra). So I honestly don't see that as a weakness, and genjutsu won't work on perfect jinchurikis anyways, remember? Kurama will simply negate any genjutsu put on Naruto.

    This brings me to another thought. Now that Naruto is perfect buds with kurama and its been hinted that Kurama knows about natural energy, shouldn't Kurama be able to constantly gather the chakra while Naruto fights? And then beyond that what if Naruto tried molding all 3 chakras at once? Won't he enter a perfect sage mode?
    Last edited by llamapie; December 07, 2012 at 11:40 PM.
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  3. #288
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The Kyuubi is stilled sealed within Naruto. And what does the Bijuus synchronizing have to do with it? Two Bijuus communicating was already shown possible within their owner's consciousness and there's no limitations in doing so. Gathering natural energy requires motionless and the user to be in contact with the natural world, as shown back when Naruto fought the Kyuubi. He still needed his real body to actually gather said energies, despite it being done in his consciousness.
    But the bijuus/kurama is different. Maybe the motionless isn't applicable to the likes of kurama. Oh I forgot, kurama did the motionless meditating pose of naruto right? The pose of kurama is entirely the same of naruto in gathering natural energy. So maybe that's a hint that what kurama did is he was absorbing natural energy inside of naruto's body.

  4. #289
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    The Bijuus aren't all that different from any other beings around. Heck, we already saw Orochimaru pull off the same resurrection trick and seen several examples of chakra holding memories and personalities. And the issue is that the Kyuubi has no access to the outside/natural world. No access means no way to pull in natural energy, meaning no Sage Mode.

  5. #290
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    He's probably thinking along the same way I was when I mentioned how Genjutsu SHOULD be the weakness of Sage Mode. Sage Mode requires PERFECT chakra control. A mixture of natural energy, spiritual energy, and physical energy. Then it all becomes Sage Chakra. And it doesn't simply stay that way. The ninja has to maintain focus (proven when Naruto instantly lost Sage Mode when Iruka called him his brother). Now what else do we know of that can alter a ninja's mindstate ASWELL as their chakra?

    Genjutsu. The ninja can't keep Sage Mode active if the chakra they used to mix with natural energy is disrupted. Can't mix your unstable chakra with natural energy? Can't make Sage Mode. This is how it SHOULD work. But ofcourse Kishimoto won't ever address this, just like he won't address the fact that Madara could've simply "turned off" Naruto's Kyuubi chakra at any moment. Canonly.
    Not sure if Sage Mode requires perfect chakra control as Jiraiya was able to get into Sage Mode without perfect control. Or that Naruto lost Sage Mode because of distraction, considering he had plenty of chances for that to happen. I think he willingly released it to use Kyuubi's chakra. Though, I'm not sure if natural energy will help against the Juubi, though. It has too much chakra/energy.
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  6. #291
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The Bijuus aren't all that different from any other beings around. Heck, we already saw Orochimaru pull off the same resurrection trick and seen several examples of chakra holding memories and personalities. And the issue is that the Kyuubi has no access to the outside/natural world. No access means no way to pull in natural energy, meaning no Sage Mode.
    Maybe for kishi, that's not an issue at all.

    And it's just your assumption that the kyubi has no access to the outside world, literally. But my point is, kurama came from juubi, he was once part of it's power, so if the juubi's power is the nature itself, then maybe the kyubi had also the access to the nature. And if he did the gathering-of-natural-energy-pose, then maybe what kurama is trying to do is to absorb/gather a natural energy to replenish his chakra.

  7. #292
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bloomerwedgies's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    It would also lead to the idea that such an intelligent individual will not let a kid like Obito control him, and will likely betray the delusional fool, eating him up as a snack, opening up new narrative options, like "will the Juubi cooperate with Madara, or it will be a stand-alone villain?"
    His wise and keen mind could also create his own idea of peace, or maybe it could see mankind as a threat to the world, and will try to eliminate it; its implied that the Juubi is like a manifestation of the Earth, as such it should have a far superior intelligence than even the most brilliant human.

    It would also make him vulnerable to TnJ though, considering he can comprehend, with his superior intellect, the blabberish Naruto speaks and will understand the deep meaning behind those words, as well as the feeling behind it.
    I think I'm converted to the role of Juubi supporter. Being woken up from a moon nap and becoming a slave to Obito's damnfool notions is possibly the worst fate imaginable for a god-beast. If he breaks free and goes on a rampage, pretty much any impropriety he commits would be perfectly justified at this point. Especially eating Obito.

    Here is a pictorial review of Juubi's current situation and how much his (and for the most part, everyone else's) life sucks:
    Spoiler show

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  9. #293
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    well,let's see what kishi has got on mind for the jubi,that flower-like must have some connections to the moon eye plan,maybe it's what they were waiting for before using the infinite tsukuyomi.

  10. #294
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    if you plant an onion into nutrient rich soil, it will grow seedling and flowers, this is common sense.


    what alliance provided our onion with:

    1) bugs and wind required for pollination
    2) moisture (water) through hidden mist, and suiton techniques
    3) nutrient rich soil through lava release, and earth shifting doton technique
    4) light for photosynthesis, through lightning release techniques
    5) warm environment through katon and lava techniques

    without the caring efforts of alliance, jyuubi could not be matured to grow flowers
    Last edited by abyozuu; December 08, 2012 at 09:22 AM.

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  12. #295
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Sage Mode does not require perfect chakra control, if it did, Naruto would never be able to be a perfect Sage because he is still unable to create a one handed Rasengan. Not to mention, we are told hat the only characters with perfect or near perfect chakra control are Tsuande and Sakura.
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  13. #296
    SCHWING LORD 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by abyozuu View Post
    if you plant an onion into nutrient rich soil, it will grow seedling and flowers, this is common sense.


    what alliance provided our onion with:

    1) bugs and wind required for pollination
    2) moisture (water) through hidden mist, and suiton techniques
    3) nutrient rich soil through lava release, and earth shifting doton technique
    4) light for photosynthesis, through lightning release techniques
    5) warm environment through katon and lava techniques

    without the caring efforts of alliance, jyuubi could not be matured to grow flowers
    Very nice, this supports my earlier posted theory of Juubi getting ten giant flowers on its ass.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3192568

    I'm really looking forward to this ugly monster getting the ultimate beauty therapy.

  14. #297
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dattebayo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Very nice, this supports my earlier posted theory of Juubi getting ten giant flowers on its ass.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3192568

    I'm really looking forward to this ugly monster getting the ultimate beauty therapy.
    Theres also the distinct possibility that the matured Juubi could come out with a retard face (more so than now) as its got some key ingredients missing from its re-creation... I would love to see it mature in to a retarded tailed beast that has special needs because its missing the 8/9 tails...

  15. #298
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    I like this idea of the Juubi "Blossoming"

    The "evil plant" aesthetic would normally not be my first choice but given how it looks now (big bucktoothed one-eyed shatmonster) I'd have to consider the little shop of horrors thing a significant step up.

    The other big positive is how it would explain Madara and Obito just standing there like a pair of statues while the alliance does their thing. I realize this is one of those suspension of disbelief things, like a villain roping a hero to some explosives and walking away instead of just killing him outright, but I would really like it if that made at least a little bit of sense.
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  16. #299
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Sage Mode does not require perfect chakra control, if it did, Naruto would never be able to be a perfect Sage because he is still unable to create a one handed Rasengan. Not to mention, we are told hat the only characters with perfect or near perfect chakra control are Tsuande and Sakura.
    Not sure where that was said, but I think Kakashi and Itachi also had good to great chakra control, based on how long they could last. Itachi was able to use almost as much chakra-intensive jutsu like Amaterasu as Sasuke despite having low chakra. And Kakashi kinda indicated he was good at chakra control (probably not in a fast way though).

    Though, I still doubt the whole one-hand rasengan thing. It could be his choice because he did mention how it was harder for him to hit with rasengan due to obvious motion and taking a while to form it.





    Can Naruto make a huiuuuuuge Sage Mode rasengan? We know rasengan in Sage Mode can be expanded, but can it be expanded to the size of a bijuu or mountain? If Juubi can't absorb natural energy or sage energy, this could do some serious damage to it. I don't think Madara could absorb that without being petrified since that would presumably be chockfull of Sage Mode chakra.
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  17. #300
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Maybe for kishi, that's not an issue at all.

    And it's just your assumption that the kyubi has no access to the outside world, literally. But my point is, kurama came from juubi, he was once part of it's power, so if the juubi's power is the nature itself, then maybe the kyubi had also the access to the nature. And if he did the gathering-of-natural-energy-pose, then maybe what kurama is trying to do is to absorb/gather a natural energy to replenish his chakra.
    How is it an assumption? The entire point of the Jinchuuriki is to completely seal the Bijuus away from the outside world, otherwise they would be able to manifest themselves again. It's the issue behind the Bijuus taking over the host the moment the host begins to draw out their chakra. It's really not debatable.

    Being a part of nature =/= using natural energy. Everything has showed that the Bijuus are chakra. Them using natural energy is impossible, because then that power couldn't be used by anyone else without turning them to stone, yet a major part of the series is regular people using a Bijuu's chakra. It would literally mean that a Bijuu's chakra is Sage chakra, which in turns means that all the Jinchuuriki can be considered sages. If you can't see the problem with that...

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