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Luffy is the main protagonist of the series/manga. He will be most likely THE KING once. Therefore I am not ashamed to put him into the top of the power amount amongst Supernovas. He did not show us any proof yet though but that's another story.
In my opinion, Luffy is probably going to be followed by two or three close tiers, let's name them Eustass Captain Kid, Trafalgar Law and X-Drake. I'd see them really close to his powers. If not Drake, then Law and Kid for sure. Want proof? I got none.
Now about the bottom, the weakest ones. I'd put Urouge, Capone and Bonney there. So the middle spots are taken by Apoo, Killer and Zoro.
Oh, whatever, I changed my mind.
Let's settle it down like this.
2) Kid + Law - tiers of Luffy's power
3) X-Drake + Apoo + Zoro - I will rise up Zoro a bit, he's an awesome character in opinion
4) Killer - Again it's just in MY opinion, but Killer compared to Zoro will be like Mihawk compared to the Baratie Zoro.
5) The so called weaklings - Bonney, Urouge, Capone - I just can't imagine them in the upper ranks, they are not weak, of course, but amongst supernovas I can only think of them as punching bags and trashes. Fill junkyard with them!
If I have forgotten anyone, tell me. But I am sure this pretty much is it!
But you can judge them by their level at using their DF. Or even more, to include those without DF power, by their level at using their own fighting style.
Of course this is not the only criteria and there are also some that can't be measured making actual power levels impossible for One Piece. If it would be the only factor, then pre-timeskip Chopper would have been stronger then Lucci
you didnt get what i was trying to say... read the post before that...mine is a followup... some devil fruits are just too good to be neagated by other's DF using efficieny...for eg Blackbeard DF... wax can never stand chance against fire...even rubber becomes weak when heated...lightning is waste in front of rubber...gas fruit should own smoke (smoke is one type of gas)...magma owns fire...Quote:
and about judging people with devil fruit ability ...see the examples i gave...i was telling events that happened in manga...was not talking in hypothetical terms...i was not saying that fully trained SH crew with haki will not hit kizaru... pre time skip a low class logia user could have owned full SH alone...
Well, I can't agree with you.Quote:
Even if Zoro will become the strongest swordsman at some point in the future (we know that it will happen, but we don't know when), it will be way later in the manga. Now he has a long way to go. Also for now he is just a first mate of Luffy. And Luffy is just the one of Supernovas. Of course he has a damn fame, but still he is one among others. And Luffy's rivals seem to be Kid, Law and X-Drake, thus I can't see how they can be at the same level with Zoro. Zoro was clearly weaker than them before timeskip. He was arguebly low middle-tier Supernova before timeskip, so him rising that high as to be able to take down the likes of Kid, Law and X-Drake isn't plausible at this point. Of course after several Arcs Zoro would surpass them, but not now.
Also, I can't agree that Zoro's strength is equal to Luffy's or even close. I don't know why such opinion is so popular, but there is no logical conclusion for them being close in terms of strength. In every Arc Luffy takes down far more stronger opponent than Zoro, hence I can't see them being close. I actually believe more that Luffy is more equal to Zoro and Sanji combined...
luffy does take down stronger opponents but he is usually beaten to pulp during that while zoro does more ...let's see
luffy beats him and is ok
zoro inspite of getting lethal hit from Mihawk ...still fights and beats hachi (even arlong is terrified when he takes of zoro bandages)
baroque works saga -
luffy defeats crocodile and does nothing throughout the war
zoro defeats das bones,fights mobs,searches for bombs(gets injured in the process) and still stands
everyone is standing
luffy beats some 1000 soldiers and lucci...cant even move (he mostly skips enies lobby as he keeps on jumping)
zoro beats many soldiers...crosses enies lobby...beats the giraffe guy...then again fights till the end...still standing
gecko moria arc- (now this one is most interesting)
luffy only fights gecko moria and odz (with help of 100 shadows) ...he then passes out...
zoro fights throughout the arc,then beats samurai,fights odz and gets beaten to pulp...still standing and fights kuma...then takes all the damage luffy received...and STILL STANDING :P
oda has always shown us that zoro pretty much follows luffy in power levels...even when zoro and luffy had a fight in whiskey peak it was almost even...both of them felt each other blows...
luffy is defnitely not combined zoro and sanji...both of them together will beat luffy pretty bad
Well, we can't seriously compare Luffy's and Zoro's opponents...
Hachi was no match for Arlong. Like leagues behind him. Of course Zoro was wounded, but well, Luffy is practically always handicaped in his fights. For example in the begining, before the fight he was in water for a long time, so he had quite a tiresome time to cope with aftereffects of sea water that usually affect DF users making them weaker and more tired.
Well, actually Luffy fights as well during the whole Baroque Works Saga and gets even more injured than Zoro if you mention him. He gets nearly killed twice by Croc's hands... And well, Mr1 is miles away from Croc's power. I can't even compare them. Also Zoro didn't beat Mr 1 easily, because if he did, then we could more or less argue if he was not that far from Luffy.
Well, in Skypea Arc Zoro's opponent was as well weaker than Luffy's. The differense was even more wast than in Baroque Works Saga.
Seriously, Lucci was as strong as Jabura and Kaku combined... And Luffy also beat Bruno before he fought Lucci after fighting those soldiers. Also, not 1000, but it was actually 5000.
Well, again, Luffy fights the entire Arc as well. He also fought different zombies and manages to take down Oz who actually defeated entire Mugivara crew... and then fights Moria and fights him without Shadows. Also the usage of Shadows tires a user. It was already impressive that Luffy managed to feat 100 Shadows inside him as a normal person can put only from 1 to several at best. Zoro's Ryuma opponent was way weaker than any Luffy's opponent (Oz or Moria) in this Arc as well.
It actually never happened. Actually throughout the whole manga Luffy continues getting futher away from Zoro. And well he was always stronger than Zoro no matter how you look at it. The only moment, when they looked even was their skirmish at Whiskey Peak, but it wasn't serious. The same way we can say that, when Nami beats Luffy, Zoro and Sanji in comic scenes, then she is stronger than they are.
No way Zoro and Sanji combined are stronger than Luffy. Luffy always beats oponents who are as strong as Zoro's and Sanji's combined or even stronger, so how come you think that they will easily take him down?
when luffy came to face crocodile he was well fed and at full power...only advantage croc had over everyone was his DF and logia ability...if luffy would have faced mr1 he would have got more injured...an opponent with weapon was more suited for him...and that was the point when zoro leveled up adn came into whole new league...and inspite of those serious injuries he stood back and fought more....also if you see the bounty rise luffy was 70 mill (30 to100) while zoro was 60 mill...even smoker mentioned how powerful was daz bones...Quote:
only advantage luffy had from other was that he was rubber...else enel was an overpowered DF user compared to whole SH crew...Quote:
lucci 4000 dorouki while kaku 2200 douriki and he ate DF after that...and luffy could not even move after fight with lucci while zoro was fighting till the end...Quote:
luffy fought fodder zombies and took odz coz he had 100 shadows in him...usage of 100 shadows doesnt tire user but its makes them loose their rationality(different things) ...and you are completely forgetting about taking all the damage and pain of luffy...cutting kumas hard skin...Quote:
whiskey peak fight was whole different than nami beating them up... zoro always closely followed luffy in power levels...ofc luffy is stronger but zoro is closeby...Quote:
there have never been a case where luffy beat someone who zoro/sanji combined never beat...if you talk about enel then he was overpowered DF for anyone without haki or body made of rubber...Quote:
infact except for foxy pirates 2nd round i have never seen zoro/snji fight together...they both fight among themselves...
well idk why you have such a low opinion of zoro...oda has clearly pointed it time to time that zoro is pretty close to luffy followed by sanji
Last edited by dex; December 05, 2012 at 12:51 AM.
Well, no matter how you look at it, but being Logia is a great advantage, especially if you opponents don't have Haki. And neither Luffy, nor Zoro had it. Luffy knew Croc's weakness, while Zoro didn't, so he would loose badly. Also not always being a weapon user you are stronger than non-weapon user. Look at Garp. He didn't have neither DF, nor weapon, but was at an Admiral level...Quote:
Also you say Luffy was at his best, when he fought Croc at last, but Zoro was at his best as well, when he fought against Mr.1
Also Zoro getting a rise of 60 million Bounty is still lesser than Luffy's rise in 70. Also Later is way more difficult to get your Bounty higher. So no way Das Bones is close to Croc in terms of strength.
But you agree that Luffy's oponent was way stronger than Zoro's as well? Of course Luffy had a good match-up, but other oponents were way weaker than Enel anyways...Quote:
You got it wrong... Lucci had 4000 Doriki in his base form, without DF usage. Doriki is measured only in your normal form. Also Lucci had the most proficiency with his DF usage than any other CP9 member. He had it since he was a teenager as he was already shown in a flashback with it. Also carnivourous DFs like Lucci's give more rise in strength than normal ones like Kaku's.Quote:
Reread it. It does tire a person. And well, you stated that Zoro fought throughout the Arc, while Luffy didn't... But Luffy fought those zombies without those Shadows. He only used them against Oz. Also he finished him after the usage of Shadows. No, I'm not forgetting about it. It's you who are negating Luffy's actual achievments during the Arc. Also Zoro only got actual damage from Oz. Ryuma didn't pose a big threat. While Luffy took down Oars and one of Shichibukai and also got tired from 100 Shadow usage.Quote:
Well, it's your opinion. I can't argue more about it. Seriously. It's not the first time I'm getting in an argument about this topic.)Quote:
Croc, Enel, Lucci, Moria. Should I continue?Quote:
Well, again. It's your opinion. Nothing from the manga actually sugests that Zoro is close to Luffy. Normally their opponents are from different leagues. And if Zoro managed to take them down easily with one sword, then I would have agreed, but he always has to go all-out against his opponents, so I can't see how he is in any way close to Luffy.Quote:
P.S. Even Mihawk himself stated, when he was talking to Luffy during Barattie Arc, that Luffy's goal is bigger than Zoro's, so he has to become damn strong. Also how come Zoro would be under Luffy if Luffy isn't considerably stronger than him? Otherwise what's the point of obeying the Captain who can't protect his crew and isn't stronger than his first and second mate?
I don't think Luffy could take on both Sanji and Zoro simultaneously, but I also thinks it's a stretch to say that Zoro is as formidable as Luffy.
Actually, Enel found out a way to injure Luffy. He reshaped his gold staff into a trident and heated it with his lightning. Later, he shaped a gold ball around Luffy's arm and sent him overboard. Actually Enel vs Luffy is a very good example for my argument.Quote:
Have the Straw Hats ever faced any low class logia user?Quote:
we can just keep on going arguing about this but no conclusion will be found at the end... some people believe zoro is not that strong some believe that he is ...opinions vary
read what i said...it was about DF's only...lightning is waste in front of rubber...ofc there are countless methods to hurt people...Quote:
dont argue for sake of arguing and reply with really baseless comments...
Last edited by matzik1212; December 05, 2012 at 05:41 PM.