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View Poll Results: who will be the final antagonist in Bleachverse ?

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Juha Bach

    7 14.89%
  • aizen

    2 4.26%
  • Soul King

    17 36.17%
  • urahara

    11 23.40%
  • someone else

    10 21.28%
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Thread: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

  1. #76
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    And did the obviously manipulated Jidanbou's attack on the twelfth represent an enemy attempting to steal information, or was it the Shiba clan acting to protect the Seireitei somehow.
    It seems like either Mayuri or the Shiba clan could be culprits here. And the fullbringers are with the Shiba clan. Is the Shiba clan controlling them? Or are they controlling the Shiba clan???

    Who's the bad guys here? Who're the good guys? YIKES!

    I really can't wait until the next chapter comes out...
    You're seriously overthinking. We saw SR back then, who was controlling Jidanbou. Shibas, if you don't remember, are Ichigo's, pretty much confirmed, family. Why would they be the culprits there...? xD Fullbringers are with Shibas because Shibas are this exiled famiy, who can do whatever they want, and Fullbringers will be needed. Kubo wouldn't just let them rot.It was obvious they'll be back. And.... Shiba clan controlling Fulbringers? Why would they? Ginjo lost his resolve long time ago.

  2. #77
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    You're seriously overthinking. We saw SR back then, who was controlling Jidanbou. Shibas, if you don't remember, are Ichigo's, pretty much confirmed, family. Why would they be the culprits there...? xD Fullbringers are with Shibas because Shibas are this exiled famiy, who can do whatever they want, and Fullbringers will be needed. Kubo wouldn't just let them rot.It was obvious they'll be back. And.... Shiba clan controlling Fulbringers? Why would they? Ginjo lost his resolve long time ago.
    But do we really know that Tsukishima died? Ginjo certainly did, but the part with Tsukishima being carried off was less than illuminating. Sure, the guy took major damage and any human damaged like that should have died, but where is the proof that he did? And if he didn't, he could very well be pulling strings.

    I don't think that the Shiba clan would willingly betray Soul Society. But, where Tsukishima is concerned, they could be used somehow. And being the means by which the Tenchuuren returns to the spirit dimension, there is motive for someone to want to do that.

    And I don't trust Mayuri at all. Learning that he had info on all captains' bankai only made me mistrust him even more.

    Just remember, Aizen looked docile and innocent until he revealed himself. I don't think you can say with certainty that there isn't a doublecross going on somewhere. Mayuri may be an enemy, although I don't know why he would help the VR when he acts so disdainful towards the quincies. Tsukishima using his power to interfere with the Shiba family is a chilling possibility too. One can just imagine how he could mess with things.

    It is not overthinking to notice where characters in a position to really screw with Soul Society might decide to do so. And it's just speculation anyway. Don't take it so seriously.

  3. #78
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    You're seriously overthinking. We saw SR back then, who was controlling Jidanbou. Shibas, if you don't remember, are Ichigo's, pretty much confirmed, family. Why would they be the culprits there...? xD Fullbringers are with Shibas because Shibas are this exiled famiy, who can do whatever they want, and Fullbringers will be needed. Kubo wouldn't just let them rot.It was obvious they'll be back. And.... Shiba clan controlling Fulbringers? Why would they? Ginjo lost his resolve long time ago.
    True. Shaz Domino was controlling Jidanbou.
    However, we don't have any reason to believe Ichigo's family on Soul Society's side at this. Isshin only got involved with the matter when Karakura Town was under danger.
    Then again, would Kuukaku bother to send them back to the Royal Dimension if she was unwilling to cooperate with the SS? Probably not.

  4. #79
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    But do we really know that Tsukishima died? Ginjo certainly did, but the part with Tsukishima being carried off was less than illuminating. Sure, the guy took major damage and any human damaged like that should have died, but where is the proof that he did? And if he didn't, he could very well be pulling strings.
    ALL traces of his ability disappeared. Or, he got quickly and completely healed, cut EVERYONE behind everyone's back to revert his ability, and then, somehow, sneaked into Rukongai, where Shibas supposedly found him. Makes sense.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't think that the Shiba clan would willingly betray Soul Society. But, where Tsukishima is concerned, they could be used somehow. And being the means by which the Tenchuuren returns to the spirit dimension, there is motive for someone to want to do that.
    For me it only means, that Shibas are VERY special and noble.

    Quote Quote:
    And I don't trust Mayuri at all. Learning that he had info on all captains' bankai only made me mistrust him even more.
    I would be surprised, if insitution that is keeping ALL RECORDS on G13 wouldn't know every Bankai. Mayuri also knew about Quincy incident 1000 years ago, he also knew much about Quincies. He is main scientist and researcher in SS, of course he would have records about Bankais... How do you think, Byakuya could talk about Sasakibe's past?

    Quote Quote:
    Just remember, Aizen looked docile and innocent until he revealed himself. I don't think you can say with certainty that there isn't a doublecross going on somewhere. Mayuri may be an enemy, although I don't know why he would help the VR when he acts so disdainful towards the quincies. Tsukishima using his power to interfere with the Shiba family is a chilling possibility too. One can just imagine how he could mess with things.
    More assumptions then facts. Hell, Aizen used his bankai to fool everyone into getting sealed, and with Hogyoku he became Soul King! And what I just wrote would make more sense, then Tsukishima surviving, cutting everyone behind Urahara's/Isshin's/Ichigo's backs, sneaking into SS and controlling Shibas...

    Quote Quote:
    It is not overthinking to notice where characters in a position to really screw with Soul Society might decide to do so. And it's just speculation anyway. Don't take it so seriously.
    Yup, Aizen being Soul King, that fooled everyone with his hax bankai, that could illusion be real makes more sense then what you're saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    True. Shaz Domino was controlling Jidanbou.
    However, we don't have any reason to believe Ichigo's family on Soul Society's side at this. Isshin only got involved with the matter when Karakura Town was under danger.
    Then again, would Kuukaku bother to send them back to the Royal Dimension if she was unwilling to cooperate with the SS? Probably not.
    Kuukaku is working with SS and with Ichigo. Despite being exiled she doesn't want SS to be destroyed. And the thing with Kuukaku being the only one who can sen Tenchuuren back is interesting too.

    And Shaz Domino controlling Jidanbou? That's some big assumption you got there. We saw that SR's boots. Nothing like Shaz's. Not that personality as well. And from we've seen from Shaz, not really his ability. What would those daggers do? Dagger would make anyone Shaz's slave? Akon could still open up Garganta, so he wasn't controlled, so I don't think daggers had such ability.

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...4-page-17.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...26-page-6.html

    Doesn't look the same to me. One controlling Jidanbou looks much... shorter to me. And those strange boots, buggy pants...
    Last edited by Duniak; January 10, 2013 at 02:19 PM.

  5. #80
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Duniak, please do not be so aggressive in your responses. I don't mind at all if you disagree with me. It is a forum, so that's not a problem. However, when you are as rude as you were in your response to what I said, you make the forum an unfriendly place for other Bleach fans who want to throw their ideas around and see what other people have to say. You can say that you think I am wrong without being rude to me.

    And are you sure that Tsukishima's power disappeared? I know Riruka thought it did after talking to Orihime, but unlike with Ginjo, there was no actual proof of it. Tsukishima was capable of adding to what people cut by him remembered about him. Could he not also change or delete some memories to make it seem that he was dead?

    And as far as the Shiba clan is concerned, I think anyone who has a way of shooting people into the spirit dimension is probably going to be a target of people wanting to get to the SK. Plus, we don't know who Kukakku's 'Uncle' is, do we? Could it be Isshin? Juha Bach? Someone else? Who would not want Ichigo to go to the SK? Who would benefit from him NOT going? And I'm sorry, but I don't think that Giriko, who murdered his own wife to test his powers can be any kind of ally. If he and Ginjo remember who they were (and before you say they don't, remember that Byakuya said the Hisana told him that she and Rukia died in the world of the living and were sent to Inuzuri, so they probably would remember their lives from before.), why would they be allies with Soul Society, whom they mistrust? This is why I suggested that maybe Tsukishima allowed himself to be believed dead and could be manipulating the Shiba clan. It's just a thought. And it does come from a logical place.

    And if I am wrong (which is fine by me), then whose side are you saying that the fullbringers are on? Just curious.

    Another odd fact is that Jidanbo was used to attack the twelfth division. When Aizen revealed himself in the manga, the gate guardians EXCEPT for Jidanbo were manipulated. Jidanbo came in with Kukakku Shiba against Aizen and crew. So, are you saying that he was used by someone else? I looked at the SR's shoes that you mentioned, but in that frame, it's not even clear that guy is in the twelfth or with Jidanbo. I don't know if that's really the evidence you think it is. I don't think we know who was manipulating jidanbo. It leaves a lot of questions. And I don't think the answers are as simple as you suggest in your response.

  6. #81
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Kuukaku is working with SS and with Ichigo. Despite being exiled she doesn't want SS to be destroyed. And the thing with Kuukaku being the only one who can sen Tenchuuren back is interesting too.

    And Shaz Domino controlling Jidanbou? That's some big assumption you got there. We saw that SR's boots. Nothing like Shaz's. Not that personality as well. And from we've seen from Shaz, not really his ability. What would those daggers do? Dagger would make anyone Shaz's slave? Akon could still open up Garganta, so he wasn't controlled, so I don't think daggers had such ability.

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...4-page-17.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...26-page-6.html

    Doesn't look the same to me. One controlling Jidanbou looks much... shorter to me. And those strange boots, buggy pants...
    More interestingly, the only one capable of doing that is seemingly on exile.

    Oh, you may be right. I just thought Ichigo must have dropped by somewhere near the research and development institute and that was the place Jidanbou attacking. Nothing to directly suggest who was who, anyway.

    ---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

    Regarding the Fullbringers;
    I don't think they will sort of play the role of a villainous figure in the arc, but it's interesting that they will be preferring to aid the Shinigami instead of opposing them. One needs to consider they were killed by the Shinigami in the first place. They may well play the role of a double agent.

  7. #82
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Beatrice's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Nice catch on the Fullbring-tenshou and the Vandenreich insignia. I'm not sure that's anything to do with Ukitake though, and more to do with Ichigo's hidden Quincy roots.
    I was thinking along the lines that the Fullbring Tenshou resembles the Vandenreich Insignia yes, however I found it just a too much of a coincidence that they are the same, the Fullbring Tenshou cannot be done without the Badge, and the Badges origins lie within Ukitake.
    Meanwhile the Vandenreich using a device that has the same Insignia and even colour when stealing Bankai.
    The Badge at least to some extend is in connection with the Quincy and Vandenreich.
    However like you said, it may have to do with Ichigos Quincy Roots.

    Quote Quote:
    Wow, you put some good effort in bringing up those together, didn't you

    Anyway, I don't know if we could ever trust Ginjo's words for real, but what Ishida seemed to think may have a sense of truth in it, though he never implied what he was thinking about.
    Quite so.
    Kubo pulls alot of this, people tend to say he doesn't plan which is a major mistake.
    Masaki twist for example was planned since the early beginning, chapter 25, when we NOW look back it.
    Spoiler show

    6 or 10 years.Seems to be Isshin just messing around again, but ever since the Fullbring Arc, we have been hinted that Ichigo doesn't know the full story about his Family.

    I do believe he says the truth ever since he wanted to tell Ichigo about his family of which we know something is wrong by now.
    However, I suppose hence the chapter, it's called Believe.

    Quote Quote:
    It seems like either Mayuri or the Shiba clan could be culprits here. And the fullbringers are with the Shiba clan. Is the Shiba clan controlling them? Or are they controlling the Shiba clan???
    Don't forget about the Shiba Clan:
    Kaien and his resemblance to Ichigo.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

  8. #83
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    i still think urahara is the 'mole' and he might be using Kon to gather information (like he previously did in mayuris lab) ...

    isn't it bit weird that Kon accompanied ichigo-renji to even king's realm...and Kon has got that device implanted in him by urahara which can(might) be used for spying... it was ok till ichigo was in Soul society but why is Kon going everywhere with them... i find it hard to believe that Kon is with them just for lil gigs... coz we do not need Kon for humour there...squad zero itself is funny... so i suspect Kon being used by urahara for spying purposes...maybe when urahara visited kings realm he couldnt gather all the information coz maybe he was not allowed to visit every place...but he thinks that ichigo will see every corner of kings realm(coz he is different/special/whatever...) and thus he (urahara) hope to gather the missing piece of information which he himself couldnt gather using ichigo...

    mayuri imo cannot be the mole coz he mutilated so many quincies before and an obviously psychotic character is never the true villian...coz if he is the villian then it was kinda obvious...its the ones we least expect

  9. #84
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Final antagonist in Bleachverse ??

    I just hope Kaien doesn't turn into a reincarnated Ichigo or someone like that in the end. It would be too much by even manga standards.
    Mayuri is probably not villainous, since it would be a bit dull to introduce such a twisted personality as a villain after all those years.

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