Bleach 520 Discussion

[hollowdemon]

I'm assuming Unohana, Kyouraku and Ukitake aren't going to be able to be stand up to Bach, which is an easy assumption when there is the fact that he defeated Captain-Commander one on one. So, if Kenpachi is to stand up to him, he would most likely have to surpass those three.
That makes it a very gigantic leap in power, Ichigo-esque, I'd say. It's only my personal preference that I don't like people outdoing the much more experienced fellows like it's nothing instantly.

That is irrelevant. Without his bankai, Yamamoto did not stand a chance against the real Juha Bach. And we know how powerful Yamamoto was even without using his soul-cutter.
Even without using a technique, unleashing Zanka no Tachi is enough to give the whole of Gotei 13 problems. Then add Juha Bach's own power to the mix.
You also need to remember that 4 of the captains do not have their bankais anymore.

Let's not forget Yama was worn out by the time the real Juha appeared as mentioned by Toby, jumping straight to bankai and demonstrating 4 of his techniques will require a vast amount of reiatsu despite how short or fast it was. Lloyd actually managed to do a pretty good job as far as luring Yama down to probably less than 50% of his reiatsu already.

We haven't seen Kyouraku, Ukitake, and Unohana's bankai as well;
a.) We all know Ukitake mentioned about Kyouraku's bankai to be dangerous and something that shouldn't be shown
b.) Unohana being the first Kenpachi gives major speculation about her attributes as a fighter which is quite high
c.) We shouldn't count out Ukitake as well just because he's ill, he's still the top three senior captains.

For Kenpachi to be able to stand up to Juha isn't too far off, I never said he'll be able to beat Juha, but being able to give him a fair fight is good enough with his power-up most likely.
It says a lot about Zaraki's potential if Kyouraku is willing to stand up against the central 46 and to have the first Kenpachi identity revealed in order to make him stronger. These are things that are definitely shouldn't be taken lightly and be easily counted out.

[wooticus]

As Nodt stated that he could have stolen Renji's bankai if the other quincy did not stopped Renji from using it, after the fact the he already stole Byakuya's bankai.

In other words, each stenritter can steal as much bankais as they can with the medallion.

---------- Post added at 05:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 AM ----------



Remember the bankai of Sasakibe? It was used by one of the Sternritter even when he was already dead.

Ah, thank you! I completely forgot about that! But that was the same Sternritter who basically confirmed that the Bankai in the usage of the Sternritter was far inferior to the original one. Of course the Sternritter was weaker than Bach, but I think that Bach can also not use Zanka no Tachi to its full extent

[NoOneInParticular]

im pretty sure the only people left on Bach's side are all powerhouses the SRs that are left anyway, i'm sure there's someone out there Because imo Juha Bach has thought every part of his lil war through and if he knows he also has to deal with the RG he probably has some people he hasnt revealed

Yeah, I guess the Stern Ritter do still have a lot to show. Not one of them used Vollstandig, and several of them now have Bankai on top of that. Bach is over a thousand years old, long enough to have possibly witnessed some of the Royal Guards in action, so he probably does know what he's getting into and has prepared accordingly. But still, with all the powers stacking up on team SS, and the fact that the Quincy have made enemies of anybody who may be lurking in Hueco Mundo, it feels like the Stern Ritter alone may not cut it. Let's face it, this is a shounen manga - the RG aren't going to lose their first battles, nor is Unohana. Kenpachi and Byakuya aren't going to lose their next battles. The same probably goes for Shunsui and Ukitake. Kubo might surprise us, but I'm predicting a lot of good guy victories in the next clash, and the antagonists are going to have to bounce back to keep the story going. I think forces we haven't seen yet are going to present themselves down the line, whether they belong to the Vandenreich or someone else.

But I could be wrong of course. It should become clearer when we find out what the Stern Ritter are truly capable of. Kenpachi killing 3 of them did kind of diminish their image, though.

[Hakuteiken]

Yeah, I guess the Stern Ritter do still have a lot to show. Not one of them used Vollstandig, and several of them now have Bankai on top of that. Bach is over a thousand years old, long enough to have possibly witnessed some of the Royal Guards in action, so he probably does know what he's getting into and has prepared accordingly. But still, with all the powers stacking up on team SS, and the fact that the Quincy have made enemies of anybody who may be lurking in Hueco Mundo, it feels like the Stern Ritter alone may not cut it. Let's face it, this is a shounen manga - the RG aren't going to lose their first battles, nor is Unohana. Kenpachi and Byakuya aren't going to lose their next battles. The same probably goes for Shunsui and Ukitake. Kubo might surprise us, but I'm predicting a lot of good guy victories in the next clash, and the antagonists are going to have to bounce back to keep the story going. I think forces we haven't seen yet are going to present themselves down the line, whether they belong to the Vandenreich or someone else.

But I could be wrong of course. It should become clearer when we find out what the Stern Ritter are truly capable of. Kenpachi killing 3 of them did kind of diminish their image, though.

I think there is a possibility that Kyouraku's opponent used Vollstandig. At least, it is speculated to be so, Grimaniel that is.
I don't have any idea about the others, but I don't expect captains in Shikai to be able to stand up to Vollstandig, so, it's more than likely that they didn't use it.

[NoOneInParticular]

why is it that every other forum i go to Everyone is overhyping Kenpachis powerup to the point of stupidity, over there i hear about kenpachi reaching Bach lvl or surpassing Yama what kind of bullshit is that lol.
Kenpachi will never surpass Yama with 1 powerup, It will take him years to surpass the old man, If unohana and shunsui couldnt after hundreds of years what makes people believe kenpachi can in a few days or weeks.
Kenpachi is so overestimated is ridiculous,
We all know kenpachi will be strong after this powerup but people please stop putting him on Aizen/Bach,Yamas lvl is totally ridiculous.
people are literally taking the Fearing comment to a whole different lvl, there many reason as to why kenpachi was never thought the art of killing,
1. We all know Kenpachi has no self controll and can really cause a havok in a fight regarless or his surroundings, Kenpachi is basically a Untrained Dog with no sense. so why someone train someone like that if its not really necessary.
2. Once Kenpachi is fighting he forgets everything that is happening outside, Is like the fight is surrounded by empty space for him, If kenpachi were to have Yamas Bankai, he would have used it without a 2nd though on how many people would die.
3. Unlike Kenpachi, Shunsui and Unohana have self controll.

Well, this is the question. See, I've always believed that Kenpachi learning Shikai or Bankai or whatever won't make him any stronger. He's already at max power at all times. He doesn't have a lid on his reiatsu, he's constantly pumping it out. The only thing he can do is learn how to channel it properly. But this chapter seems to suggest that he has other areas in which to grow, and he'll become significantly stronger when he does. Now I hope that's just overhyping. I've said it a few times in this thread, but I don't want Kenpachi becoming too strong. I certainly don't want him surpassing Yama or Aizen, because personally I'm a little bored of Kenpachi's routine. Other characters have to struggle in their battles, and it makes them so much more interesting to watch. But Kenpachi just rolls in and his whole tactic is basically 'being stronger' than the other guy, and it gets dull. I don't hate the character at all, in fact I think he's quite cool. His entrance with the three dead Stern Ritter on his back was great. But I loved the fact that he got curbstomped by Royd, because it was just a nice change to see him on the receiving end.

I guess all we can do is wait and see what Unohana does with him. Logically, he shouldn't become stronger, just more skilled. But who knows what the results will be?

---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

I think there is a possibility that Kyouraku's opponent used Vollstandig. At least, it is speculated to be so, Grimaniel that is.
I don't have any idea about the others, but I don't expect captains in Shikai to be able to stand up to Vollstandig, so, it's more than likely that they didn't use it.

Oh yeah, Comissioner Gordon used his for a sec, haha. He only used it when he was in danger, though, to avoid Shunsui's attack. Maybe the Stern Ritter were under orders not to use Vollstandig, so as to keep their trump card hidden before the Royal Guard got involved?

[benelori]

We all know that most weekly mangas are better read in bigger chunks, especially Bleach...so I reread this arc and I arrived to the chapter where the RG arrived...and with the revelations of this week's chapter(Kyouraku talking about the art of killing and Unohana revealed as Kenpachi) the last panels of this page and the the first panels of this page are really interesting...the meaning of those facial expressions and words really fall in place and frankly it got me more excited

"What you're meant to do right now is not healing" somehow points me into the area of killing...mercilessly and possibly reviving the murderous beginnings of the 13 divisions...words like art of killing are used in this chapter, which hopefully will balance the overwhelming abilities of the Quincy...

PS: for those who can't access the link...I'm talking about chapter 517 where the RG just grabbed the injured and Unohana interjects

[cracker]

Looking back that chapter was some massive foreshadowing...You can even see the emphasis on Retsu...

I guess she just stopped being Battosai and went all Kenshin, the wander samu- whoops wrong manga

Really looking forward to her first fight and the true extent of her abilities...

[THM Nindo]

I just realized that Zaraki must have known that Restu was the first Kenpachi.
Remember how he was the one to give a name to Yachiru (his lieutenant).

He said that he gave her the name Yachiru because that was the name of the only person he ever admired.
So that means that he must have known, right?

Or maybe he heard about her, but never figured out that it was Unohana...
I can't wait to see them work together!

[kkck]

I just realized that Zaraki must have known that Restu was the first Kenpachi.
Remember how he was the one to give a name to Yachiru (his lieutenant).

He said that he gave her the name Yachiru because that was the name of the only person he ever admired.
So that means that he must have known, right?

Or maybe he heard about her, but never figured out that it was Unohana...
I can't wait to see them work together!

I had completely forgotten about that, that is a great point. Kenpachi is a bit of a brute though, I would lean a bit more towards the idea that he had only heard about her amazing feats of strength and thus admired her but never actually had the chance to meet her. Unohana must have been the first kenpachi quite some time ago which is more than enough for most people to forget such things. I do wonder just how exactly the tradition of a kenpachi killing the previous one started though. Unohana is very much alive which means the tradition was not instituted with her. Or perhaps the second kenpachi defeated her but didn't kill her? Or the tradition simply started with subsequent kenpachi after she gave up the title...

[Hakuteiken]

I do wonder just how exactly the tradition of a kenpachi killing the previous one started though. Unohana is very much alive which means the tradition was not instituted with her. Or perhaps the second kenpachi defeated her but didn't kill her? Or the tradition simply started with subsequent kenpachi after she gave up the title...

My theory was the monk guy amongst the Royal Guard to be the one to defeat her to take the title, but that depends on their respective ages. If he is a lot older, close to Captain-Commander's age, it's not something possible.
Unohana giving up the title on her own does also make sense, since she seems to converted to the healer type later on.

[NoOneInParticular]

Is that how the title of Kenpachi is passed along? I thought it worked the same as Captaincy of any other squad, and being made Captain of the 11th automatically made you Kenpachi; so the previous one can step down or retire, like Unohana seems to have done. But then, given the implications of the title itself, I guess it would make sense for it to be passed along by killing the previous owner. If that's true, then Kenpachis have been getting progressively stronger through Soul Society's history. But I'm sure the only reason the 2nd Kenpachi could ever take the title is because Unohana willingly stepped down.

I wonder what Kenpachi's feelings are towards her if he knows that she is indeed Yachiru. Her fearsome reputation might mean it's common knowledge that she's an ex-Kenpachi. If he does know, I imagine he's got a lot of contempt for her - he probably thinks she went soft or something. I'm quite eager to see their training sessions, I bet he won't know what hit him when she swings that sword of hers, lol. It's also funny that her Minzuki is a healing-type Zanpakuto. That would mean that her entire reputation as a legendary killer was built up without the use of her Shikai. Maybe it's a similar case to Yumichika's Zan, where she forcibly makes the Shikai work differently from it's intended purpose.

[kkck]

Well, killing the previous captain of the squad in question is a factual way of becoming a captain of the squads (which fits beautifully with yamamoto at some point being a deranged killer). And the manga did confirm the current kenpachi killed the previous one, it was a bit of a plot point when he fought tousen. I think it was said that it was a tradition in the 11th division to actually have the captain titles passed along like that, by killing the previous captain although maybe I got that fact wrong.

Its not necessarily common knowledge that unohana was at some point the kenpachi. The issue at hand would be the fact that she was the kenpachi at the very least 1000 years ago. That is an enormous amount of time and as far as we have seen members of the 13 squads have relatively low life expectancies compared to how long they can actually live if unkilled(kyoraku, ukitake and unohana are the only remaining members of the guard from 200 years ago and the vizards got kinda lucky that urahara and yoruichi saved them). Just now over 2000 shinigami got killed by vandenreich for that matter. So how many people can possibly remain that actually knew or even saw unohana as a kenpachi? I guess among civilian nobles it could be common knowledge however among shinigami it would be quite strange in my opinion that there are more than a few survivors who even remember that.

[NoOneInParticular]

Yeah. She could be feared just as a known sword master. I suppose all Captains are feared to some degree, at least by the subordinates who don't know them personally. This is what I had in mind, btw:

http://www.mangareader.net/94-634-2/...apter-180.html

Those guys could know who she was, or they might just know her as 'scary Captain Unohana'.
But I would imagine the 11th squad at least has records of it's previous Captains. Still, the fact that she ditched the name Yachiru might in part be specifically so people don't find out that she was the first Kenpachi. It seems like she's done everything she can to get as far away from that lifestyle as possible. She actively avoids fighting opponents even when they're stood right before her, like Rudobon and Aizen. Her career in medicin is the very opposite of her career as a sword slayer; it's like she's trying to make up for all the lives she must have taken over the years. It wouldn't surprise me if she's taken steps to ensure people don't recognise her as Kenpachi no.1.

[Marche]

I just realized that Zaraki must have known that Restu was the first Kenpachi.
Remember how he was the one to give a name to Yachiru (his lieutenant).

He said that he gave her the name Yachiru because that was the name of the only person he ever admired.
So that means that he must have known, right?

Or maybe he heard about her, but never figured out that it was Unohana...
I can't wait to see them work together!

Can you say me in which chapter this happened???
I even want to know in which chapter it was explained about Kenpachi title.

[drzcoyotex3]

Shunsui for the win. I figured they would make him head captain after all he seems to be the only captain who has even a fraction of the strength Yamma possessed(we have not seen unohana yet) We have seen him showcase some of his fighting abilities in about two or three fights. He defeated starrk easily, while starrk was getting ready to defeat two captains. He WAS the only captain to defeat his initial opponent. Both Soifon and hitsu failed. And he was pretty much unscathed. In reality besides him I don't think anybody is fit for the job, Ukitake is sick, AND WE DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT RETSU YET. Like him or not like him in reality he has been the captain that has shown the most abilities and the most potential. Wolfgang kummomara is a goddamn joke. Soifon does not posses any ability to make her a candidate, Hitsugaya is still too young, kempachi is a brute, Mayuri does not have fighting skills on a high enough level and Kensei what can we say about him. As hinted by ukitake shunsui also seems to posses some pretty badass bankai. And for those complaining about the fact that he did not handle his opponent in this arc, I shall remind you remind you guys that the shinigamis can't use their strongest weapon their bankais. Take away the sternritters Volstanding their bankai stealing abilities and lets see what happens in an all out battle.

As for retsu being the first kenpachi, I mean I'm not too shocked by it I mean we all knew she had a hidden past before no body could've predicted it was that but it seems to make some sort of sense