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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Quite a simple, straightforward question. If the seven that survived were still in the organisation now, what number do you think they would be ranked in?
Would all seven occupy a top 10 spot in your eyes? Discuss.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 18, 2011 at 03:44 AM.
pre-pieta or during-pieta:
Miria said that the HAs (Deneve, Helen, and Clare) were all in the single digits in power. Miria and Jean are already single digits in rank (power).
ALL the HAs did pretty well against rank 2 Rigardo, especially compared to highest ranked Claymore, Flora, at rank 8. Flora couldn't even react. At least Deneve, Miria, Helen, Jean, and Clare could react and parry/clash swords with Rigardo (to a degree).
Clare defeated rank 4 Awakened Ophelia (using Irene's arm and Quick Sword).
Clare (using Irene's arm and Quick Sword) out-performed rank 3 Galatea in against rank 3 Dauf in the Witches Maw arc.
Clare (using her partial awakening and raising/releasing her yoki even more) sliced rank 2 Rigardo to pieces.
rank 40 Yuma defeated a rank 14 claymore with such ease that it seemed as though the rank 14's sword was standing still to yuma.
the HAs (due to their natural yoki suppression) could safely "engage" with Riful (and Agatha) and get away.
all 7 Ghosts were able to safely take on rank 2 Agatha together.
whereas, rank 3 Galatea was not powerful enough to defeat rank 2 Agatha by herself.
rank 4 Miata (whom really was a rank 1 in power) called ALL the Ghosts as "STRONG".
rank 4 Miata (whom really was a rank 1 in power) called Miria and Clare as "VERY STRONG."
Deneve and Helen did kinda okay against a severely weakened Isley, which is still an accomplishment.
their new rankings (by HK) of the 7 Ghosts:
1. rank 6 HA Miria: rank 3
2. rank 14 Claymore Cynthia: rank 6-7
3. rank 15 or 19 HA Deneve: rank 4
4. rank 22 HA Helen: rank 5
5. rank 31 Claymore Tabatha: rank 7-8 (and has equal yoki sensing to pre-pieta Galatea)
6. rank 40 Claymore Yuma: rank 8-9
7. rank 47 Non-Awakened HA Clare: rank 2
7. rank 47 Partially Awakened HA Clare: rank 1 (~ equal to Isley, Riful, Luciela, Rafaela, Rosemary, Alicia, Beth, and a "matured" Miata)
7. rank 47 Fully Awakened HA Clare: rank "0" (~ equal to Priscilla, maybe even ... Teresa... maybe)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM.
I pretty much agree with HegemonKhan. I might knock Claire and Miria up a level though. Most of the number 1's we've seen have been special, so I think that by this point Miria is probably on par with Irene, and Claire could match up with a normal number 1 even without awakening. Due to the fact that Miria is better in most tangibles, she might even be ranked better than Claire.
the difficulty i had with this (my attempt at ranking them, Miria and Clare) is:
Clare, in her partial awakening (and with raising/releasing even more yoki), became far more powerful then Rigardo and sliced him into pieces, with him being completely helpless to stop her. And this is BEFORE, Clare became stronger over the 7 years of "Ghost Training".
Clearly, pre-"ghost training" partially awakened Clare is far superior then rank 2 Rigardo. Which definately puts partially awakened Clare at rank 1 level, ~ equal to all the other rank 1's. (HK's list of rank 1's: Isley, Riful, Luciela, Rafaela, Rosemary, Alicia, Beth, and a future-"matured" Miata).
we do get to see how powerful the Ghosts are (the 7 surviving Claymores AFTER their "Ghost Training") against an equally ranked (rank 2) Agatha to Rigardo (rank 2). however, sadly, we don't know if Agatha and Rigardo are equal in power or not. The problem though, is that......
Agatha (and Riful as well) could NOT "follow/track/keep up with" the ghosts because of their natural yoki suppression (from not having released any yoki since the end of the pieta battle, being a good 7 years of not using/releasing yoki), which already gives the ghosts their advantage. Also, they are ghosts, aka PLURAL. Agatha can't contend with all 7 of them (well 6, as tabatha just guided them to what part of the awakened shell/exoskeleton that the real "human" body Agatha was moving around/to inside it, which surprised Galatea, as she was about to help the ghosts with this very thing).
because of these two things, i have a hard time determining if say miria is really equal to a rank 2 and not equal to rank 3, such as Galatea. Galatea was trying to take on Agatha 1v2 (Galatea vs Agatha+Miata, lol), whereas Miria was trying to take on Agatha 6v1 (Miria+Cynthia+Deneve+Helen+Yuma+Clare vs Agatha, and also they had Tabatha as their "commander" telling them where to attack at Agatha).
Galatea clearly stated that she could NOT take on Agatha alone. This is why she "lured" (and thus sacrificing herself) stronger Claymores (she only got though Miata and Clarice disappointedly, lol) to Rabona. We do NOT know yet, if Miria (or Clare as a Claymore/non-awakened) could actually take on Agatha 1v1.
So, because of the gang attack on Agatha and their natural yoki suppression, what would have been the perfect indicator of the Ghosts' improved power, is ruined as being "empirically" so.
so i decided to conservatively/cautiously put Miria as rank 3, and Clare as rank 2. Though, super agillis, could very well be right. I just wanted to try to be as conservative/cautious as I could in their new rankings.
more thoughts of mine about Miria:
Miria's phantom step, merely put her at ~ equal speed to Rigardo (to me, she seemed to be just slightly slower then Rigardo with her phantom step, but this is negligible anyways). As we know, she couldn't do it indefinately, as it takes a lot of yoki out of her to use it (and Miria, and anyone, doesn't have the massive amount of yoki that Priscilla has, lol). Once, she couldn't maintain her phantom step, she became easy prey for Rigardo to kill. Rigardo's speed never wavered even his his next consecutive fight with partially awakened clare.
Rigardo had a ton of yoki left, so much so, he was even able to boost his power up even more (in that explosion of yoki release and roar) against partially awakened Clare, since he was so excited at finally having a rival to fight against in her! finally a real fight for Rigardo... and it was, because it was his last fight, laughs. partially awakened clare, not only was his rival, but a superior rival.. hahahaha! (his battle/fight against Priscilla doesn't count. it wasn't a battle/fight, it was a slaughter/massacre by her against him, though he, and isley, lived through it as strangely priscilla actually wasn't in "kill mode")
Miria had a new "mirage step" ability, which she could use indefinately (i still don't understand then, why miria isn't "zipping" all over the island like some electron in an atom). This would greatly have helped Miria against rigardo....
HOWEVER, this new "unlimited" "mirage step" ability, is actually SLOWER then Miria's yoki using phantom step ability. so, this would probably be a very BAD thing against Rigardo, despite its "unlimited" use. unlimited use isn't any good if Rigardo slices miria to pieces, since she's too slow to avoid him.
but, what about Miria's phantom step ability, now that she has improved from her "ghost training"? We just don't know. Miria's phantom step speed, could very well now exceed Rigardo's speed, or maybe not. It depends if Miria was even able to boost/enhance/improve her phantom step speed or not, and if she could, by how much.
hopefully, there's been enough time to make another post, if not... sorry for double post, but i feel this should be separate as its a new and separate thought
i totally forgot about Cynthia battling Beth, while keeping yuma totally unharmed.
yes, cynthia, was nearly dead, but still that's quite an accomplishment. rank 14 cynthia vs rank 2 Awakened/Mutated/Infected Beth.
this (possibly) totally ruins my rankings though...... rank 14 Ghost Cynthia is able to prevent rank 2 Awakened/Mutated/Infected Beth from not laying a single "scratch" on Yuma, and managing to stay alive herself (barely).
so, i'm just going to ignore this, and keep my rankings as is.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i would rank clare number 4 since she defeated orphelia
ranks is something not something up to decide by our selves...
youll need to specialists of anylization...
somewhere at this forum wandering...
just ask them xd
i would say claire is nr1. in my eyes
Ok, so i can't believe this thread hasn't been done already but i looked through and didn't see it so here goes.....
Taking into account all currently living Claymores, inside and outside of the organization, how would you rank them based on their ability? I'm going to do 1-10 but you can do however many you want.
Also I'll leave whether or not you include Clare up to you. I'm not going to because who can say what will happen to her power inside of that crazy cocoon thingy.
My Claymore rankings
I think she's a clear number 1 right now
It's hard to figure out where to place her relative to Deneve and Helen, but i'll give her the benefit of the doubt...because she is easily the coolest nun ever.
She seems a little stronger than Helen but it's close.
I see her as being #4 but really #2-4 are pretty close to the same level of strength
It seemed like strength was never her problem. Her problem was that she was certifiably insane. Fortunately Clarice seems to be the solution to that.
I may be shortchanging Tabitha here but i think Miata might be stronger.
I think #7 is about right for her.
I'm kinda just taking the manga's word for it on this. She's the organizations #3. So i think this should be about right.
I'm probably giving her way to much credit but, despite being the official #8, i'm putting her at #9 based on how well she's fought.
The organizations #7 and from what i've seen so far she looks pretty good. Might be better than Dietrich but i haven't really seen enough to tell.
(As for the only unmentioned survivor of the north, Yuma. I think she'd probably rank at around #14 or somewhere in that area.)
Tier 1: Clare and Deneve
Tier 2: Miria and Helen
Tier 3: Cynthia, Tabatha, Yuma, and maybe Dietrich
Tier 4: Galatea, Miata, and maybe Dietrich
Tier 5: Audrey, Rachel, and maybe Dietrich
Tier 6: Renee, Anastasia, Nina, and maybe Dietrich
it's hard to gauge Dietrich compared to others
when just looking at Dietrich she seems powerful, able to "hang in there" along with the powerful Ghosts, but than again, when compared to Galatea/Miata it makes me more uneasy about judging Dietrich's power.
Yuma completely pwned a rank 14, so she's far more powerful a rank than rank 14, lol
Yuma about the unnamed rank 14 she was fighting:
~"It seemed as if her sword [swings] were frozen/still, not moving, in time"
Also don't forget Yuma's performance against the "town Razing" male AB in the near recent chapter (112? or 111? or 110?).
Rank 40 Yuma/Uma:
ch 54 pages 19-20 (Yuma losses her arm)
ch 66 pages 9-12 and 27-31 (Yuma following Clare around as she looks for Raki in Alphonse)
ch 66 page 24 (Yuma is seen as one of the 7 survivors of Pieta Battle)
ch 67 pages 1-5 (Yuma following Clare around as she looks for Raki in Alphonse)
ch 78 pages 22-23
ch 83 pages 14-28
ch 83 pages 17: Yuma *handstand splits* FTW, RAWR! She's agile like Noel!
*(Tenge Tenhjo's Aya Natsume's handstand splits was better though, pervy HK)
ch 90 pages 17-31 (Clare cuts off Yuma/Uma's foot, lol)
ch 92 page 28
ch 93 pages 4, 7-8, and 16-18
ch 94 page 26
ch 96 pages 12-25
ch 98 pages 2-10
ch 101 pages 22-31
ch 102 pages 1-14
ch 105 pages 17-20 and 28-32
ch 108 pages 15-17, 23-25, 29, and 31
ch 112 pages 12-19
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 07, 2011 at 10:29 PM.
I think this ranking of warriors is reasonable, but the one caveat I'd have is how useful it would be in predicting the outcome of conflicts. I read years ago a book whose title escapes me, but it was by an expert's expert in the martial arts, with all the black belts in this and that.
He traveled round the world, meeting and testing the skill of the best of the best of various fighting styles. The author would actually fight the other experts to test their skills.
Ironically, the author's worst defeat was inflicted by an elderly gentleman in South Africa. This South African had no special talent or certificates or even anything even resembling a martial art or skill. He was the physically the weakest of all the martial "experts" the author tested. How was the author defeated? He was "surprised." The author concluded that the fight does not necessarily go to the strongest, the most skilled, the most disciplined, or the ones others rank and certified the best.
Victory often goes to the most unpredictable. In short, someone like Clare. The author's mistake with the South African gentleman was similar to the one that Rigardo made in Pieta. So in compiling a list, who would an opponent be most surprised by?
Last edited by jamie95403; March 08, 2011 at 06:38 AM.
Don't be surprise if Yuma throws a Claymore and slice off anyone head. She's hasn't miss so far. LMAO!!!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 07, 2011 at 10:36 PM.
There's Clare and Miata as well, who've thrown their swords with deadly accuracy too, and let's not forget Deneve's accuracy with throwing the sword ahead of her to hit the Destroyer while being chased by Priscilla, in trying to save Clare
Keep in mind that i'm combining all living claymores into my rankings(and inviting others to do the same). Is Yuma more powerful than the organizations current #14? I think so. But stronger than the organizations current number #5, number #6(both supposedly more powerful than Dietrich and Anastasia, at least by the organizations assessment), and #10(that anti-claymore helped bring down Mira). I kinda doubt it.
I love Yuma, but i don't really think she wields that kind of power by herself. I mean, if you add the ghosts and Galatea to the ranks of the single digits, #14 becomes a pretty darn strong ranking.
But if you don't agree with mine that's cool, but i want to see your ranks 1-10(It's harder than it sounds). And none of this Tier business, the organization doesn't use tiers so neither can we.
I don't mean it as a "who would win in a fight" guideline. I mean it in the same sense the organization in Claymore means it. The relative combat value of the person in question, which they use to designate which Claymores go where, in order to balance deployment.
As for it's usefulness to predicting the outcome of battles...........i'll answer with a quote i'm rather fond of.
"The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot." - Mark Twain
Last edited by Jammin; March 07, 2011 at 11:06 PM.
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned Ranking ver 1
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned Ranking ver 2
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 07, 2011 at 11:57 PM.
Well, here is my Claymore ranking. I'll throw Clare out the door since she's in the cocoon.
4. Cynthia ( I feel Yuma is a lot stronger then Cynthia/Tabatha but she not confident in herself.)
7. Miata (Only if she wasn't crazy. She'll probably be rank.4)
8. Sister Latea (Yes, she's mess herself up.)
Sorry, I like to put Anastasia and Dietrich in the picture, but it's only been 3 months and not 7 years. I'm sure Audrey/Rachel are still stronger then Anastasia and Dietrich. Beside, the only reason why Clare/Helen/Deneve/Miria all got stronger when they came to Pieta was because they had all half awaken. This allow them to tap into their yoki power better.
#1 - Miria (her phantom technique is really great + her swordsmanship)
#2 - Deneve (twin blades? really deadly)
#3 - Helen (her extend-able drill technique can pierce to almost everything)
#4 - Galatea (whats surprising about her is her technique. Her advantage lies on the first attack of the opponent. While her opponent is not that focused on attacking her, she can manipulate it to a certain extent leaving her opponent somewhat more distracted thus easier to control.)
#5 - Miata (can kill yoma with just her rage but needs to be stable)
#6 - Cynthia (many underestimate her because she lacks confidence but thats not the issue. She was former #13 and almost on par with her captain. Her usefulness as a support makes that for her and correct me if I am wrong but she can also do the technique of Galatea.)
#7 - Tabitha or Dietrich (Tabitha is as good as an Eye and good at battling awakened ones while not releasing her yoki, while Dietrich's leap attack is also destructive but of course it still needs preparations but shes also a good Tracker.)
#8 - Audrey (having the ability to somewhat reflect the damage is really great)
#9 - Yuma (the direct shot is deadly and her spinning throw can be devastating + her accuracy is great and she will be good as a long range warrior if given with large amount of claymores but she still needs to be more confident though)
#10 - Rachel (her strong sword can obliterate but needs time to prepare.)
If Clare should be included I would tie her with Miria because shes unpredictable and her techniques(Windcutter/Flaash sword) can keep up with Miria's phantom move + shes also good at evading.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 13, 2011 at 08:58 PM.