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Thread: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

  1. #46
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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy View Post
    Don't like Komatsu's name being stained with no reason. He did the swimming on his own and came last. In the cycling he got dragged by Buranchi and came first, but used regular tools, as if he came last. He could have taken the easiest and longest route on his own, came last again, and the result would be the same. He did the cooking on his own, Death Scale Cooking (which looks pretty dangerous) on his own with Food Honor, AND Entire Island Cooking on his own. What exactly was Buranchi's contribution there? Nothing, Komatsu does everything with his own power. He doesn't need or want even one millimeter of help.
    I question, based on what was happening, whether or not Komatsu would even have been able to finish the Triathlon without Buranchi. And Buranchi did allow Komatsu to obtain some ingredients. So saying that Komatsu 'does everything with his own power' is just not true. When it comes down to just cooking that might be true, but the Cooking Fest is more than just cooking. I would've liked to see Komatsu keeping up with at least the mid-level ranked chefs, but that was not the case. I question why we haven't seen decent physical ability from Komatsu yet, it makes one wonder about the extensive training he's undergone.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Well, Komatsu can win if uses recipes from the book which it found in the Gourmet Pyramid.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I question, based on what was happening, whether or not Komatsu would even have been able to finish the Triathlon without Buranchi. And Buranchi did allow Komatsu to obtain some ingredients. So saying that Komatsu 'does everything with his own power' is just not true. When it comes down to just cooking that might be true, but the Cooking Fest is more than just cooking. I would've liked to see Komatsu keeping up with at least the mid-level ranked chefs, but that was not the case. I question why we haven't seen decent physical ability from Komatsu yet, it makes one wonder about the extensive training he's undergone.
    The cooking fest is primarly about Cooking... Even the triathlon was about Cooking in the end, I don't get why such a focus on Komatsu having a regular's human strength
    Bishokuya get the ingredients, Cooks cook it, period. As for training, Komatsu never went through physical training, where did you get that ? Food Honor improved his cooking skills and made his talent (aka Hearing ingredients voice) blossom, you do realize that many cooks would kill to have Komatsu's ability don't you ?

    He has been acknowledged as being a genius when it comes to cooking (Yuda, Chiru, Setsuno etc), Toriko has been acknowledged as being a genius too (Coco and Chin), and this combo has been described as being extremely similar to Acacia and Frohze (Ichiryuu and Pahpoh)

    And the author himself, gave strong hints for Komatsu to stay the way he is physically, especially the Shining Gourami...

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member nyamonyamo's Avatar
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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    A lil ads: 21 come and go now lets see which date the doomsayers are gonna pick now lol

    By the way i'm still in the No Strong Komatsu camp. With his food luck and food appreciation everyone and everything will help him go thru challenges.
    I think the author is showing that strength is not everything. Thats why toriko needs komatsu to enter gourmet world.
    I'm still confused by people wanting to see komatsu gain strength like setsuno. What hes got now can already be considered super human strength. I believe he will gain setsuno like skill but thru time and not physical training like toriko. Most probably thru experience. Plus his role in this manga is to cook not fight XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy View Post
    He doesn't need or want even one millimeter of help.
    hahahaha omg that is cool

    I dont think its even a surprise if matsu wins againts zaus. Remember last chapter all 4 kings said even buranchi aint got no chance lol. Tho i hope it will be epic and bloody!! Dying to see some super chef fight here. its a cooking fest yet we havent seen any dish! Blasphemy!
    Last edited by nyamonyamo; December 21, 2012 at 09:02 AM.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    I agree with Zehahaha.
    The author is telling us that Komatsu reached this far all by himself. He passed all the stages fair and square. The cycling part wasn't about speed. It was about getting the best utensils there is. And even though Komatsu got there ahead of others, he still chose the ordinary utensils because they're what he should have gotten if Buranchi didn't help him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    And Buranchi did allow Komatsu to obtain some ingredients. So saying that Komatsu 'does everything with his own power' is just not true.
    I think you got it wrong. It was Komatsu who helped Buranchi see how precious those remaining ingredients are. Without Komatsu, Buranchi could've dropped out from the competition because he's so cocky to cook those cheap ingredients.
    And even if Buranchi didn't help Komatsu in the cycling part, I'm sure he'd still make it to the next round by choosing the longer yet safe route.
    The competition isn't about speed. It's about cooking.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, that was one hell of an asspull.
    Komatsu should have lost in the first part of Triatlon, but he actually managed to not only be among first 50, but already among first 32! It's already too much, especially since half of what he achieved here was only due to Buranchi. If he actually beats Zaus, then it would just be a really terrible writing. The same way if Toriko manages to win right now against Ichiryu or Jirou in a fair fight.

    Seems that Bishokukai are coming soon. Hope the Tournament ends before they come and then Toriko and other topdogs can join the fight.
    Not really, he already "beat" Setsuno in the century soup challenge, he simplified the medicinal mochi cooking process in minutes and even improved the taste when others thought it impossible, he's been widely regarded as a genius and there have been hints about the new generation overtaking the old soon (what with Setsuno/Zaus questioning whether they should quit, and with Butanchi outspeeding them even with their headstart). I personally think it's a bit too early for Komatsu to win too, but I wouldn't call it bad writing if he does, the battle will most likely be interrupted anyway with Komatsu impressing Zaus with his skills but not necessarily winning.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    If Komatsu beats Zaus, what's left for him to do? How can he continue to grow in the manga? By learning and doing stuff that Zaus and Setsuno probably can do in their sleep? That's what Jorge means by it being terrible writing if Komatsu beats Zaus. The next thing you know Komatsu will be taking a stroll through the woods and luckily trip over "God". His "luck" should only take him so far at this point in the manga. We know he's a good chef, we know his genius has been recognized by the Greats, but that doesn't mean his one of them yet. There's plenty of all star rookies who ended up fizzling after a couple of years. It takes time to be one of the legends. Give him some time to grow...the manga has a long way to go, there's no point in Komatsu being one of the best so soon.

    But I think we're gonna get some good ol' fashion battles before the next round gets under way. That's what I'd rather see any way...it's been awhile.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    I think the fairest thing to happen to Komatsu would be if he at the very least earned Zaus' respect or came fairly close to his ability at best. And even then I'd say its going too far.

    I'm curious as to how the Bishokukai got so cocky. there are a lot of powerful people at the Fest right now, Mansam, Four Heavenly Kings, The Top 30 chefs (are the ones I imagine can kick it in the Gourmet World), and while I'm not sure if the G7 have any ability in fighting, their bodyguards might be tough. Darnil Khan was in attendence from what I can see, and there are probably enough tough fighters in the audience to make an army. not to mention Kousairou and perhaps even Jiro (though I doubt it.)
    Granted they are bringing some tough bastards on their part, along with a thousand or so half-eaten beasts and a few Lye Beasts. But it still seems to me that The Bishokukai are outnumbered and perhaps even outgunned. It seems to me it'd be easier to take on all the chefs at the fest individually rather than all at once (if that is what they are after).
    I could very well be wrong though, considering Grinpatch, Tommy, Staajun, and Chiyo are all technically chefs, they might just be there to compete. Tengu barged in without much of an issue (with the rules anyway) and was allowed to compete.

    The next issue can't come fast enough...

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    There is no way Komatsu would have gotten anywhere without Buranchi. Komatsu came last to the island with Food after swimming, so Buranchi could have taken all the Food for himself and Komatsu would have lost at that point. So what di Komatsu achieve on his own? In just cooking parts he did well, but in the preliminaries, where you had to use some physical effort he lost badly, so without Buranchi he wouldn't have gotten higher than the last place.

    As VashDaStampede already mentioned, if Komatsu beats Zaus now, what should he do? He would be already considered on Setsuno's and Zaus' level, but it would be too early for the manga. It's the same if Toriko would be already on the level of such guys as Ichiryu, Jirou or Midora.
    Also, Matsu never managed to beat Setsuno. He did prepare Century Soup, but it was completely different from Setsuno's. Most of the ingridients were different.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    There is no way Komatsu would have gotten anywhere without Buranchi. Komatsu came last to the island with Food after swimming, so Buranchi could have taken all the Food for himself and Komatsu would have lost at that point. So what di Komatsu achieve on his own? In just cooking parts he did well, but in the preliminaries, where you had to use some physical effort he lost badly, so without Buranchi he wouldn't have gotten higher than the last place.

    As VashDaStampede already mentioned, if Komatsu beats Zaus now, what should he do? He would be already considered on Setsuno's and Zaus' level, but it would be too early for the manga. It's the same if Toriko would be already on the level of such guys as Ichiryu, Jirou or Midora.
    Also, Matsu never managed to beat Setsuno. He did prepare Century Soup, but it was completely different from Setsuno's. Most of the ingridients were different.
    Setsuno, Zaus, Juda could have taken all of the ingredients and make Buranchi, Komatsu and the rest of the chefs immediately lose. Does that make Buranchi, and all the other chefs trash?

    I wouldn't consider Komatsu defeating Zaus like it's a given, nor call it bad writing at this stage. Everything we've seen so far in Toriko is the exact opposite of bad writing, so I believe author deserves a little benefit of the doubt.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    The cooking fest is primarly about Cooking...
    Yes, but not entirely. And it is the remaining component that Komatsu is incapable of handling. The reality is if one isn't able to finish the physical component of the Fest, they won't even get the chance to cook.


    Quote Originally Posted by llydnarz View Post
    I agree with Zehahaha.
    I think you got it wrong. It was Komatsu who helped Buranchi see how precious those remaining ingredients are. Without Komatsu, Buranchi could've dropped out from the competition because he's so cocky to cook those cheap ingredients.
    And even if Buranchi didn't help Komatsu in the cycling part, I'm sure he'd still make it to the next round by choosing the longer yet safe route.
    The competition isn't about speed. It's about cooking.
    I don't disagree with the fact that Komatsu showed how useful the ingredients could be, it doesn't change the fact that Buranchi shared the remaining ingredients with Komatsu, and then dragged him through the course.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member nyamonyamo's Avatar
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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    If komatsu did manage to beat zaus im deducing that the author is telling us we should not rely on these old generation anymore. The focus has been shifted to the young ones and toriko will not enjoy getting his ass saved by anyone again if he is ever in a pinch. Whats next for komatsu after he beat the top chef? There is still the dark chef, bishokukai, gourmet world, nitro, akasia menu and plenty more. Plus its cooking even an amateur can beat pro. In toriko food luck = godly skill its like the person is favoured by the gods (like sakura in tsubasa chronicle). Even setsuno mentioned "we may be in the presence of someone great".

    Komatsu is 88 in ranking. Theres 12 people behind him in rank yet they manage to overtake him (only cause matsu doesnt know how to swim) but that doesn't mean they are better than him. Even without buranchi's help he would still manage to finish the race since there is no time limit so it does not matter if he came in dead last or next week. And he did put a handicap on himself. This competition is well thought out where everyone have a chance of winning. The race part is just an eye candy for the crowd (possibly for wager/betting). And cooking is about the heart. You can have the best ingredient, best tools and skills but if you have no respect for the food nor your customers i doubt you can get far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasbones View Post

    The next issue can't come fast enough...
    Next issue is in 2 weeks >_<

    Staajyun and the guys might be chef but they have to be in top 100 of the month to participate officially in the fest. Unless they crash gate and force the chef to fight. Now i consider that to be the real cooking fest!
    Plus in the crowd there are the top apprentice left by the guys in 0th biotope.
    We have the girafe to fight the beast
    Last edited by nyamonyamo; December 22, 2012 at 06:13 AM.

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Yes, but not entirely. And it is the remaining component that Komatsu is incapable of handling. The reality is if one isn't able to finish the physical component of the Fest, they won't even get the chance to cook.
    Absolutely wrong, the main point of being the fastest cook in the triathlon was to get the best ingredients + best ustensils, there was no time limit and stuff, hence coming first and last means jackshit because in the end, it depends on how tasty your dish is gonna be

    I fail to see also how Komatsu would've lost without Buranchi, because it is the contrary. Without Komatsu, Buranchi would've dropped from the competition because he had no interest on what was left, it was Komatsu that sparked his interest and made him realize his mistake

    In the end, Komatsu won fairly, as he didn't even use his Melk Kitchen Knife when he got the ingredient in the triathlon, and still managed to pass !

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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Absolutely wrong, the main point of being the fastest cook in the triathlon was to get the best ingredients + best ustensils, there was no time limit and stuff, hence coming first and last means jackshit because in the end, it depends on how tasty your dish is gonna be
    Actually what I said was absolutely correct, and it simply clarified what you had already pointed out. Cooking is the most important aspect, but it is not the only aspect. Coming first and last makes a difference. If two individuals of equal cooking ability handle the triathlon differently, the one who gathered better ingredients, got better equipment, and was in better condition to cook would obviously beat out the opponent that did not. It may be the Cooking Fest, but cooking is clearly not the only thing that matters. Otherwise, there would be no point in the triathlon prior to the cooking. So yes, your placement in the triathlon means far more than jackshit.

    Quote Quote:
    I fail to see also how Komatsu would've lost without Buranchi, because it is the contrary. Without Komatsu, Buranchi would've dropped from the competition because he had no interest on what was left, it was Komatsu that sparked his interest and made him realize his mistake

    In the end, Komatsu won fairly, as he didn't even use his Melk Kitchen Knife when he got the ingredient in the triathlon, and still managed to pass !
    I've already said that I question whether or not Komatsu wouldv've been able to finish the triathlon without Buranchi. Even before he finished the swin component, Zebra had to save him. And I keep on seeing references to the absence of any time limit, and I keep looking for that condition, but I've yet to see where that is stated. Could you point me to where that is being said, or are you just taking the absence of an explicit time limit being stated as evidence that there was no time limit.

    Buranchi would probably have dropped out if it were not for Komatsu, but that doesn't change the fact that after he had decided to remain, he aided Komatsu extensively. Buranchi shared ingredients that he could easily have taken for himself once he realised their potential, he also allowed Komatsu to finish the triathlon in far better physical condition than he would've if he had attempted to complete it by himself. Both are rather important. For all we know, Komatsu's place could've very well been 50, and that improved physical condition could've given him the edge over the chef placed at 51. The fact remains that Komatsu was in a better position, and better shape, than he would've been without Buranchi's aid.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Toriko 216 Discussion Thread

    @Impossibility

    Seems like the author doesn't agree with you

    Quote Quote:
    Though it's called a triathalon, the battle is really all about "cooking"!!
    So chefs with little endurance, have no fear!!
    First you swim to obtain "ingredients" which you "transport" by bike and you run to obtain cooking utensils...
    Once you've reached to goal kitchen at the end, the cooking begins!!
    The chefs that create the top 50 tastiest dishes pass the preliminaries!!
    Of course, those with faster times will be able to get more tasty ingredients.
    And the slower ones will have to compensate with their cooking skill!!
    Now then, we move the stage
    to the location for battle 1, the preliminaries, "Triathlon Cookiiiing"!!
    If it was truly about endurance and strength or speed, it wouldn't be like this, there would be a time limit, a unique path filled with beasts not two paths one with beasts and the other no...

    Again, if you've been reading this manga, you'd understand that there's no such a thing as a super delicious ingredient and a normal ingredient, it all comes to the cook and his cooking skills, something that Komatsu has, as he passed that test and made a delicious dish with just what was left, considering other cooks took the " best ingredients "

    And as you can see, Komatsu could've taken his time to finish the triathlon, since there's no time limit. The point of coming first is to get the best ingredients and best ustensils, no time limit at all, those are great advantages yes, but in the end, only the cooking skills matter, so Komatsu could've taken few ingredients, and take the safest route, and would still win. It's you people who refuse to see what's all this about and keep on saying " without Buranchi he wouldn't have done this and that "

    And I don't need to remind you about how much of a genius he is right ? He finished Century Soup before even learning Food Honor, he has been hailed a genius by Livebearer, Yuda, Chiru, Setsuno and every single cook who participated in cooking the Medicinal Mochi, his talent has been acknowledged by Staajyun too and even Ichiryuu and Melk, and that is without even stepping into GW yet and without having Gourmet Cells...

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