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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Obviously if cooking skills have to be utilised to compensate for something, it's not all about cooking ability and the ingredients are not equal.Quote:
And your argument that the manga suggests that there is no difference in class between ingredients is just ridiculous. That is the entire point of the manga. Why is everyone on the planet going after God if it isn't better than what's around? What is the point of individuals going out and risking their lives to procure ingredients that are no different from the ones they can get around the corner? Why do the chefs choose certain ingredients over others? You might be able to argue that there is nothing that is useless as an ingredient, but there is definitely a difference in the quality of ingredients, and to suggest otherwise is counter to the manga.
Your second paragraph is the same as you've already said before, I've already addressed Buranchi's, and Zebra's, contributions to Komatsu challenge:
And I don't need to be reminded that Komatsu is a genius, or of his notable accomplishments. Although, I feel it necessary to point out that the individuals he's up against are masters with accomplishments equal to, and in many cases far greater, than his own. They have the cooking ability to meet his own, and they have the clear advantage in terms of endurance, which is also apparently important for chefs, and lots of other abilities to aid them in their aim to become the top chef. I don't think that it's chance that the chefs that have won the Cooking Fest are absolute beasts in every sense of the word.Quote:
I'll just state some over pointers so its easier to read:
Host did not mention time limit, even when matsu took a long time to finish swimming.
Zebra only help matsu float for a few secs before setsuno remind him
There are difference in ingredient and way of cooking that makes one a top chef
Komatsu put a handicap on himself making him even with the final racer
Even if buranchi took all the ingredients, matsu could still use the rice on the beach, or with his godlike food luck he probably found a fish while swimming.
The marathon could probably just a means to work the crowd, wager bets etc. Certainly its more exciting than just cooking.
Host did not mention anyone failing at the race part so it means even the 100th person manage to finish the race. That means matsu with his skill and experience can finish it himself.
It wasnt mention that his cooking is the best merely just in the top 50. With garbage-like ingredients and normal cooking utensil he manage to beat 50 contestant. That is his skill he manage it on his own.
With his food honor he passed the top 32 meaning even in top 50 there are some chef that does not have food honor. So here base on his ingredient, utensils and skill he is in top 32 without any outside help. This is what the author wants to show us. The key event here is to be able to cook your way into finals, the race part is just eye candy. Probably just to show off the cooks and their menu, serve as a mean to introduce the chefs.
Beat setsuno in century soup
Improve yudas mochi which is impossible according to the assembled top chef
Show chizuru new ways of cooking shy ingredients so everyone can taste
make staajyun dreaming about matsu food luck
Impress melk with his knife
Its safe to say he earned his spot in the finals base on his skills. Not because he had help
Don't really get all the Komatsu hate lately. Since last two chapters he was the most likeable character in manga and now his incredible accomplishments are being undermined.
Lets deal with few facts:
1.Buranchi helped Komatsu. No one can argue that. Did he want that? No. Did he need that? All the facts point to no.
2.Zebra helped him during swimming with sound jacket, FIVE SECONDS LATER Komatsu tells him to cancel sound jacket. Did he want help? No. Would he have drowned for those five seconds?
3.Komatsu cleared Cooking challenge on his own, Death Scale cooking on his own and Whole Island cooking on his own. Hmm, maybe Toriko bribed the judges what do you say?
4.In everything seen so far, he's received help in cycling challenge, something he also didn't want or need, AND also didn't utilize the benefits of it. Really don't know how to put it more simply.
The lengths you people would go to undermine characters is unheard of. You should stop acting like he's defeated Zaus already. It's perfectly fine not to like a character, but don't twist the known manga facts.
The author is clearly giving us a hint that Komatsu reached that far fair and square. That's why he bothered mentioning that even though Komatsu finished the cycling part ahead of the others, he still chose the normal utensils. And also, the mentioning of the safe but longer path is to give us the idea that even without Buranchi, Komatsu can still clear that part of the competition.
Komatsu is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. He has the potential to be greater than any of the chefs in the competition (when it comes to cooking ofcourse). I guess no one would disagree to that.
I wouldn't even be surprised if he turns out to be Frohze's descendant.
So if Buranchi who doesn't have food luck and can't hear the voice of ingredients have win as a rookie, then why can't Komatsu?
Its not really hate i think some people are just disappointed that komatsu didnt get strong like setsuno and co. To me matsu condition is really ideal right now. There are some things that only weak guys can do. But matsu is far away from being weak. His strength and endurance is top notch. Hes just timid lol.
Personally i dont think its wrong if matsu beat zaus in cooking. So far all the points are showing that matsu is capable of taking the top guys. He already showed them how to get things done. If he manage to beat zaus that means he is not the final boss in this game. Someone else is
Second fact, accurate.
Third, spot on.
Fourth, absolute speculation. He might've equalled the field on utenslis, but that doesn't mean everything was equal. Were the other chefs in terrible physical condition, or simply exhausted, after the triathlon. One would expect there to be serious effects on the condition of some of the less monstrous chefs after the race. Komatsu was probably in much better condition than the other chefs simply because he was whisked through the race.
First, pure speculation, and quite simply suggesting that Komatsu shouldn't have to do anything because he's just going to get lucky.Quote:
Second, the marathon existed to show off the endurance of the chefs, which was mentioned to be important for them. Although, I'd agree that the excitment for the fans didn't hurt.
Third, the host doesn't say anything at the end of the race. It's just boxes running through Komatsu's path to his battle with Zaus. So there is nothing that points to the status of the other chefs at the end of the triathlon. Based on what we saw, it is distinctly possible that some individuals didn't finish the race.
Fourth, right with the exception of the final sentence, which is basically the disagreement we're having.
I agree with most of your final deduction, although I should point out that I am in no way questioning the other challenges because there was nothing to suggest that he didn't complete those challenges purely on his own skill.
It would be nice to say that. Unfortunately, that is not the impression that I was left with. I would've liked nothing more than to see Komatsu go through the Cooking Fest without any aid from others whatsoever. Unfortunately, the tendency to have soemone come to Komatsu' rescue semingly couldn't be ignored during the Fest.Quote:
Last edited by Impossibility; December 23, 2012 at 05:48 AM.
I could relate to that tho. Matsu's hard work is not shown in here. Just a few off panels and we were left with just guessing. If its naruto you can bet every top chef will get some flashback and even matsu picking his nose will be drawn over and over again~
1. I never called Komatsu trash. So I don't get your point. I just poiinted that he is physically weak and always gets help0 in any challenge, so he practically never accomplishes anything on his own exept for actual cooking and it's also looks sometimes as a plot-induced stupidity, since sometimes it gets to an illogical limit, when it is stated that Komatsu not only manages to do something in 5 minutes, but actually manages to do it in two and then spends other 3 in order to simplify the cooking method...Quote:
2. I was talking about the particular situation, when Komatsu came last and Buranchi who was at the same moment there as well and could easily take all the ingridients, but didn't do it, but actually helped Komatsu to get more ingridients and get to the final stage of the Triatlon. Without such a help Komatsu would have been the last in the Tournament no matter how you look at it...
Well, it would be strange at the least for Komatsu to defeat Zaus already, because there won't be that much room for him to grow.Quote:
Well, I wouldn't call it Komatsu's hate. I've always had the same opinion about Komatsu since the begining of the manga. He has one of the thickest plot armours in the entire manga history and his "luck" comes most of the times to the absurd limit and he practically never accomplishes anything on his own exept for actual cooking, so I don't get why we should not mention it as it is a part of the manga as well.Quote: