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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Obito never agreed on gai and kakashi's observation nor he said that they're correct.
In fact, does obito/sasuke stated that you can't unleash the true power of MS/EMs with just one eye? And the rinnegan came from MS/EMS, then maybe that ''arguments'' is still applicable to the rinnegan. The left MS possess the amaterasu(?) And the right MS possess the genjutsu and the susanoo when you possess both of the MS. So maybe it's also the same for rinnegan. The left eye possess the 3 rinnegan's power while the right eye possess the other 3 rinnegan's power. And if you have both rinnegan you will possess the 7th paths power.
Well, not unless, obito/sasuke lied about those stuff.
That kakashi doesn't need the other MS just to awaken the susanoo. And obito doesn't need the other rinnegan to use the 7 paths power.
Last edited by marshall313; December 22, 2012 at 12:25 AM.
That has to be one of the worst observations I've heard. It would have a little credibility if the Rinnengan could perform the same jutsu the MS and vice versa.
Also, Obito said kakashi observation was excellent, basically saying that Kakashi was 100% correct.
Rinnengan is one of the great eye dojutsu, just like byuakugan and Sharingan.... They are nothing alike.
And no. I think obito was talking about the chakra he needs to control the jins. Obito said that kakashi had an excellent observation about controlling those jinchuuriki paths needs a hefty amount of chakra. Nothing more.
Its not common sense. You are using unknowns to back up your claims and that is illogical. You have NO evidence that he can do all the jutsus Nagato could. All you got is the fact that he can do SOME of the jutsus Nagato can.
Its not safe to asume anything. Its completly illogical actualy.
Just because 2 caracters share 2 out of 3 (random number) jutsu it does not mean they share the 3'th one.
Yes and Madara has the potential to use all the rinnegan jutsus Nagato showed but that does not mean he can... Potential is IRRELEVANT. Minato has the potential (probably) to trow FRS(even if not with FUTON) but he can't do that because he died before he could develop it.Quote:
Sasuke/Itachi don't need it for Amaterasu/MS genjutsu. Shisui does not need 2 for his genjutsu. Tobi does not need 2 for his Kamui and so on. This proves nothing.Quote:
Nagato had the eyes and was fighting before even meeting with Tobi. There is NO indication Madara showed Tobi anything about rinnegan and then Tobi to Nagato. I mean not even 1 piece of evidence. Well he did show him the Mazo and how to work it but that is another thing.Quote:
Madara having the ability and potencial to use all of them does no = he can do them. He could have died before getting some of them. He had Rinnegan for something that looked like a very short time.
Again aparently you can't wrap you mind around this. ITS IRRELEVANT If he has the POTENTIAL for them. Sasuke OBVIOUSLY should be able to do Izanami and Izanagi BUT if he does not know how they work then HE CAN'T. That is the point.Quote:
Using Sasuke does work... Its about the information one has acces to. There is NO evidence Madara or Tobi had acces to the same information Nagato had. You can argue Nagato could have showed Tobi all his jutsus but then again perhaps he did not.
Everything? Then how come Tobi had no bloody clue about Edo's? What he showed its ?? Marks all over the place.Quote:
Obviously Madara was able to learn some jutsu but did he had the time or inclination to learn them all? No evidence of this.
Again potential is irrelevant. I am not claiming Madara does not have the potencial for it.Quote:
Naruto has the potencial to use those FUTON bullets Danzo had.. So aparently he can do that... Then let's give him ALL the futon abilities the manga showed because he has the potential to do them... Well let's give them to the point manga ITSELF states he can't do it. Got any panels where he ties to use them and fails? Because what you are asking here is no diferent then me asking for evidence Naruto can't do Danzo bullet like futons... He did not show them but he showed some futon techs and he has the most powerfull futon out there so why not? He could have trained for them and we got no idea about that.
No he just said he is not using rinnegan techs because he is using the power of his eyes to control the bijus. He never claimed anything about using ANY rinnegan jutsu. Perhaps he has chakra shield and robot stuff but not the rest. Who knows.Quote:
As for the bolded part. It makes no sense for Sasuke to be able to use Amaterasu, MS genjutsu and Susano and not be able to use Izanami and Izanagi (don't give me the potencial again...).
Exacly my point. The rest has no relevance.Quote:
Sorry no facts. Just asumptions based on Nagato can do X and Madara has his tools so he can use X. That is not evidence.Quote:
He did not know about ST lvl 2. That is all there is to it. Minato poping in your blind spot made it close to imposible to defened considering Minato w8ted to the point Obito was 1 cm from him. So this is defenetly not a bad show man.Quote:
Also we don't know if absorbing a bijudama if posible, at leat in time. If the jutsu is to masive that ability needs time to work. Fat Pein had to stop JMan's Ultimate Rasengan before absorbing it (to have time) and FRS aparently need some time to be absorbed most times. Nagato was also hit by Bee before having the time to absorb it. Same with Kisame and Samehada. First it was the impact and then the drain. if the attack is fast enough and powerfull enough then it can hit them before getting absorbed.
Well they where better but not because of Tobi's Pein jutsu. It was because the material he was working with was better then that of Nagato. The jutsu itself was just as good.Quote:
Even if that is true chosing not to use his rinengan abilities does not mean he has acces to all of them. I have no idea how you got from Tobi deciding not to use his rinnegan in battle to have acces to all the rinnegan might. It makes no sense. Its probably the other way around. Deciding to use Kamui probably means he can't use all the rinegan stuff as he decides Kamui is a better option.Quote:
Then how did Sasuke know about Amaterasu, Tsuck and Susano but he did not know about Izanami and Izanagi? What is this suposed to prove? That people can have acces to some information but not all? Well point granted.
Well Tobi probably did show him the Mazo and what not. He had to SYNC with it. But that is another story from teaching Nagato all the rinegan jutsus he had...
Not claiming he did not have time to practice. What i am asking how much of it? Did he had time to learn all the jutsus? Also and aparently doujutsu are upgraded and achived in BATTLE. Look at Sasuke, Kakashi and Obito. Only Kakashi perfected his Kamui by training BUT he got MS in BATTLE. Obito got intangibility going IN BATTLE by instinct. Sasuke got all his abilities starting from Amaterasu IN BATTLE.
There is NO evidence they can use them all. Asuming they can because Nagato can and they have the same eyes AND have the ability to perform some rinnegan jutsus IS NOT EVIDENCE OF IT. Its asumtion. Evidence is when its performed or stated so in the manga by a caracter.Quote:
Again with the potential "face palm".Quote:
You do understand they never said they can use ALL of them right? Going from using SOME and stating they can use SOME and never ALL its not the same as stating they can use ALL of them...
Tobi was using diferent abilities to hold the biju's down. It was not Pein jutsu alone... It was a combination of chakra chains and Mazo power. Tobi also had CLOSE PROXIMITY to the realms compared to Nagato. Obito was traveling close to them at all times.Quote:
Again there is NO evidence in the manga trough words or action to demonstrate they can use all of them, just some. There is no evidence that they can't but there is none that they can... Let's say its circumstancial evidence at its best but not more then that...Quote:
So you are telling me that Madara/Obito have a gap in information on how jutsus work AND NAGATO KNEW MORE? Well thx that is also helping my case lol. Even KONAN knew that Nagato would die only because HE WAS LOW ON CHAKRA but now you are telling me Obito and Madara knew less... This means Nagato had petter information on how the Rinnegan works.
Last edited by xXan; December 24, 2012 at 03:31 AM.
is madara ems madara? so he loses against hashirama,whereas naruto should have troubles against the bijus,but the current naruto should be strong enough to defeat them,and then the uchihas lose.
obito vs naruto alone mmmm, well it is hard to say, if it was tobi vs naruto, i will say tobi but we're talking about crazy obito here.
Regarding the Rinnegan knowledge;
Nagato trained the Rinnegan for twenty-odd years. Clearly, what Obito knew of Rinnegan was nothing but stories he listened from Madara. True, Obito was seen talking to Nagato about his eyes, but I doubt he showed him a technique or something like that.
To prove that, Nagato used Gedo Mazo against Hanzou and it was at the time when Yahiko was still alive. Since Yahiko didn't want Obito's presence around, it's more or less clear that Obito was able to approach Nagato only after Yahiko died, so, therefore, it was Nagato who was manipulating the Mazo with his own knowledge at that point.
The truth about Nagato's eyes was perhaps just a legendary story Obito used to lure Nagato into his plans and nothing more.
i don't think madara used perfect susanoo against hashirama.. or if madara even used it at all...i wish kishi will give us a flashback one day before ET madara get defeat....
And he also said only Hashirama could possibly stand up to him after his earlier Susano'o clones were defeated, so, that would be a pointless statement if he was talking about his previous state.
Of course there is no concrete evidence to point 1 way or another but i do belive he used it:
Full Power of UM:
I am sure he would use his full power considering how bad he wanted that win. A man would not get to the bring of death after a long fight and not pop all his tools.
Then here is just about confirmed:
Tsunade asks if Hashirama really had to fight against this power and then Madara states how he already told them that ONLY Hashirama could stop him. To me this is clear.
You know its actualy funny we have a topic of 10 pages where someone belives that Sarutobi can take EMS Madara:P
How could Hashirama fight it? Use a ton of wood element to limit its movement and buy for time. The things costs a TON of chakra and Madara would not be able to keep it up for long. On the other hand Hashirama had a TON of chakra and super regen. If the Kages can take hits and live (indirect ones) then Hashirama with Tsunade level healing would do the same.
Actualy i am damn sure Hashirama won the fight trough a chakra contest. Madara going dry first.
Last edited by xXan; January 01, 2013 at 12:30 PM.