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Thread: Naruto 615 Discussion

  1. #406
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    So then you believe the scroll is worthless and has absolutely no effect on the future of this war? Because Suigetsu said so would? What the hell kind of logic is that? What about Suigetsu makes him a liar?
    Because it's odd that suigetsu found a powerful scroll and yet we never seen kabuto use that power in this war. Kabuto and oro are both partners in crime. And it's obvious suigetsu doesn't know anything on what what kind of forbidden jutsu both kabuto and oro created. And yet with just a simple glance, he already knew that it can win a war?
    It doesn't make any sense at all.

    Not unless suigetsu is another genius of his clan, a forbidden jutsu maniac and knows those kind of stuff.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Not unless suigetsu is another genius of his clan, a forbidden jutsu maniac and knows those kind of stuff.
    You don't need to be a genius to identify a nuclear warhead as a threat.

    And why would it be unthinkable that Oro kept some secrets even from Kabuto? Kabuto was Orochimarus most trusted and valued pawn, but a pawn nonetheless. Oro wanted to become the ultimate being, having Kabuto as his equal was never his intention.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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  4. #408
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Alot of what you claim requires that you ignore actual events in the manga for them to have any worth.
    What did I claim? That Sasuke did not set the war into motion is a fact. Tobi did it. That Sasuke has done nothing for the war is a fact, and it is canon because his action was only to make sure Itachi tell him the truth about the Uchiha massacre. My claim is that Sasuke is irrelevant to the current war, and I want you to bring any connection he has with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Example?

    Kabuto, just like Sasuke, was only "with Obito" as a lie to make their own motives come to fruition, and the manga itself considered Kabuto one of the 3 powers in the war (not apart of Obito's forces, but a legitimate threat in his own right). So why is it so hard to accept that Sasuke, just like Kabuto, is relevant when he's potentially taking the exact same role as Kabuto (the ally of Obito who always intended to kill him later)?
    Kabuto was irrelevant in the initial war. He obtained his ticket for the war a minute before the war started, and this was the consequence of a truce between him and Tobi. The deal was to help Tobi win the war, then obtain Sasuke body as a reward. Kabuto became relevant only for this deal. On the other end, Sasuke is sure powerful, but having power does not make someone necessarily relevant to an issue unless there is a reason for them. Currently the war can be defined as a conflict between Tobi and the SA. Tobi wants to cast infinite Tsukyomi and the SA want to stop him. How do you fit Sasuke in this issue realistically without inventing another reason? Well I see. Maybe Sasuke also wants to stop Obito and Madara because he doesn't want to fall under infinite Tsukyomi. That will be a reason but I will not be excited about it because he will have to fight with Naruto, a person he solely implated Itachi's eyes to destroy. Or maybe, Sasuke will fight with Obito and Madara because they are Uchiha - this will also be wrong because the war has nothing to do with Uchiha vs SA. Besides, orochimaru, Jugo, and Suigetsu are not Uchiha.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    You need no alliegience to either side during a war inorder to be a major player in a war. You need only the means to make your actions effect those taking part in the war.
    I understand you, but this clearly state that Sasuke will come as a ganster in the war and do whatever he wants to whoever he wants. This will be brilliant for Kishi and all Sasuke's fans. I hope he has surpassed Rikudo Sennin.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Case in point? http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/592/13

    A bit of knowledge that is so important it would allow Taka to rule the world? And you can't see how important this is to the war? Even when Suigetsu first finds it he claims that it will "turn this war around". That flat out BLATANTLY proves that Sasuke's usage of the scroll will effect the war. Not to mention the name of the chapter is "The Third Power", which is implying that Sasuke will become the 3rd genuine threat in this war, replacing Kabuto.
    Without trying to bash them, Kabuto thought of himself that he knew everything that orochimaru knew, and that he was invincible. He even said that the Uchiha pale before him, and that he was the closest to Rikudo. Well, he his right now stuck in Izanami. I guess you disregard his statement because he is not Suigetsu. Please tell me. How does Suigetsu who only knows about swords can determine what will rule the shinobi world? How Suigetsu who has never seen edo Madara, Nagato or KM Naruto assume that he has a power that can rule the shinobi world? These are questions that make me think that the scroll was to make someone be excited about a possible power. Knowing Orochimaru, I can agree that they have a good trail, but in my opinion, the power to rule the shinobi world is at Mount Byokuzan - the toadland.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Sasuke is on a journey of reflection: to understand what a clan, ninja, and village truly is. The answer he receives will determine his next step. But Kishi wouldn't purposely give him the tool to turn the war around if he wasn't gonna take part in the war. You tend to claim that you pay more attention than all of us do, so clearly you have an answer for this question:

    "Why did Kishimoto give Sasuke a scroll that a side character claims will turn the war around, if he will not take part in the war?"
    First, the fact that he is in a reflection means that he currently is irrelevant to the war. If the war was a must for him, he would be fighting right now. Note that maybe 20 minute has passed since they left. Unless what he has does not require training, which I doubt, he will not come back. So the only possible way suggested is that Orochimaru will help him implement the scroll.

    Second, implementing the scroll does not mean he will fight in the war. A third power can decide to rule the after Shinobi war - that is if they really have the power to beat the SA.

    Third, unless Kabuto was lying, everything Orochimaru know was known to Kabuto. This include the content of the scroll, and this is the reason Kabuto wanted Sasuke's body in my opinion. The max power Kabuto hinted was Rikudo's power because this was what he hinted when he said that he was the closest to Rikudo. Unfortunately, he ignored completely what was going between Naruto and the Biju. This ignorance make everything Suigetsu said a debatable claim.

  5. #409
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    I assume anyone knows about the legend of the Rikudo Sennin and the Rinnengan.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  6. #410
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    It is clear that Obito couldn't revive Rin as Nagato couldn't revive Yahiko. The reason is that the RT is a life transfer jutsu. What good would it do for Obito to revive a girl that friendzone him and die for her. Note that Obito is also mad because he was a loser. The infinite tsukyomi is not only to see Rin, but also to make sure he will get her - LOL. There, everyone will be a winner.
    Not really. We don't know whether Rinne Tensei does require life as a price to pay to revive another life, otherwise Nagato should have been able to revive only one person. Chances are, Tobi either can't do it with one Rinnegan, isn't an Uzumaki, or incorrectly assumes Rinne Tensei requires sacrificing life to revive another, especially if he thought Nagato had to do it to revive the people.

    Also, Tobi dies one way or another since he'd have to revive Madara, if Rinne TEnsei does require his life.

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  8. #411
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww
    Kabuto was irrelevant in the initial war.
    Kabuto was 99.9 percent of this wars firepower, lmao. Irrelevant? The war would be OVER by now if it weren't for Kabuto. You do know that irrelevent means "of no consequence", correct? No one cares when he became the most lethal threat in this war, we just acknowledge that he was indeed a threat. To claim that Sasuke can't pull the same magic act is... what do you even gain from saying something like that?

    Quote Quote:
    How do you fit Sasuke in this issue realistically without inventing another reason?
    By following the path/potential paths Kishi laid out for us to begin with. Sasuke is affiliated with one of the main instigators of this war. In Obito's eyes he is a subordinate. Subordinates do what their superiors ask them to. Obito asks Sasuke to aid them. He does. That's one way he's apart of the war.
    Or Sasuke gains a new sense of resolve to protect Konoha in his brother's name, then he makes his way to the battlefield and aids the Alliance, powered up or not. The relevence is in the foreshadowing that anyone who's been reading the manga picked up on (even though the forshadowing simply foreshadows "change", not "what change will take place").

    1: recieving a scroll that can "turn the war around".
    2: change in character (Sasuke is no longer doting on revenge and could very well choose to go after
    3: implications in the title that Sasuke (or rather, Sasuke, Taka, and Orochimaru) are "The 3rd Power".
    The only way that Sasuke being relevant to this war could be considered "unrealistic" or "irrelevant" is if his actions didn't effect anyone in the war at all. Which it does. For one he initially wanted to murder the ninja who's currently carrying the entire alliance. Secondly he may also have changed his mind about vengeance altogether.

    Quote Quote:
    I understand you, but this clearly state that Sasuke will come as a ganster in the war and do whatever he wants to whoever he wants. This will be brilliant for Kishi and all Sasuke's fans. I hope he has surpassed Rikudo Sennin
    If he arrives and he has changed, having given up his hatred after talking to "the one who knows everything", then this will be a major blow to Obito's "The world is shit and you should give up believing in love" mentality. He will question how someone as hate-filled as Sasuke could turn back while he couldn't, and he would finally begin to question his choices. This might not happen, but it's yet another example of how Sasuke appearing on the battlefield not only promotes interesting writing, but stays right in line with the path Kishimoto has been following.

    Quote Quote:
    How does Suigetsu who only knows about swords can determine what will rule the shinobi world? How Suigetsu who has never seen edo Madara, Nagato or KM Naruto assume that he has a power that can rule the shinobi world?
    You don't have to be a genius to comprehend overwhelming power, or a secret that can change the world. Even if it's not a blatantly simple powerup the way Suigetsu claims: it's something big.
    Quote Quote:
    First, the fact that he is in a reflection means that he currently is irrelevant to the war. If the war was a must for him, he would be fighting right now. Note that maybe 20 minute has passed since they left. Unless what he has does not require training, which I doubt, he will not come back. So the only possible way suggested is that Orochimaru will help him implement the scroll.
    Before Sasuke noticed Itachi was around he was headed somewhere else. Infact...
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/14 He was headed to where Naruto is to kill him. Infront of the alliance. The war WAS a must for him because at that point, it was the only way to kill Naruto. As of now, it's still a must for him because regardless of whether he's changed his mind and wants to defeat Madara (fullfilling his brother's wish in the process) or his hatred hasn't subsided and he still wants to fight Naruto... it will likely not happen after the war because the manga is supposed to be coming to a close.

    With the war finished and Sasuke wanting to destroy Konoha, he would need power comperable to current Madara. And that's not possible because there's only one Juubi.

  9. #412
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Whether you believe me or not, I have some experience with writing stories, and I really meant what I said. Sasuke's role lost its significance when he killed Itachi. He hated Itachi for something he did not even know, and he was too caught into revenge to understand what Itachi was trying to tell him. After Itachi's death, he should have made his very first own decision in life, but he was too hurt that he made the wrong one. If Kishi ever planned to make him come back, it wasn't for the war arc because Sasuke is irrelevant to the war arc , and it is so because he is neither with the SA nor with Obito.
    I'm gonna have to question that so-called experience if you can't acknowledge the role that Sasuke has held for most of this series or the very reason he does the things he does. You make the claim that Sasuke made the wrong decision? Um, that's the entire point of his character development. A character who always makes the prefect decision can't develop and pretty much becomes a mary sue. Not to mention, that Sasuke's decision to not return to the people who instigated the massacre of his clan can hardly be called wrong. I can't think of any reasonable person who would take the side of people with a known bias against their kind. Anyway, Sasuke has been the motivating goal of not only Naruto, but both major villains. It's an undeniable fact that he's the whole source of this war.

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    You said my claim is wrong, and you think the war went in motion because of Sasuke? I am impressed on the way people reason when it comes to Sasuke, loosing track of the whole manga. So let me remind you.
    Um, the entire summit that brought the Kages together was done due to Sasuke attacking Kirabi. Without that event, Ee wouldn't have sent out the ordered and brought the others together.

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    1. Obito is the one who used Sasuke as a pawn both to test him and to kidnap the kages.

    Don't ask me to give reference because this is canon. Obito overestimated Sasuke's Uchiha power both on KB and the 5 Kages - Danzou version. Before he declare the 4 war, he said it. So actually, your great Sasuke has been dying in others sauce all the time he got screen as Itachi said. He judge Naruto as naive, but he is more naive than Naruto. Sasuke did not put the war in motion. Rather, he was used by Obito to do a job, and when he failed, Obito used the opportunity to make a new move.

    You made me write a lot, and I had to answer because I respect your thoughts. However, tell me how you think Sasuke set the war into motion while he is completely absent.
    Um, how did Sasuke not put things in motion if by your own admission, he was the one used by Obito to do so? At best, you can claim that Sasuke didn't purposely set things in motion, but you can't deny that he had a major role in setting things in motion, what with bringing the Kages together in the first place and opening the way for Obito to declare a world war at all. Without his action of attacking Kirabi, those later events could not have happen. And by no means can Sasuke be said to be naive. Him being set up by Obito does not show naivety.

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    2. Sasuke did nothing in this war for the war.

    Now be careful to read what I write. I say Sasuke did nothing in this war for the war. This mean, none of his actions were related to the war. Kishi made him kill some zetsu as a pure fanservice when people were asking to see him. Note that if Kishi did not show this scene so that some people can use it to claim that he has become god, none of the Sasuke fan would be able to compare him to Naruto right now. Then, Kishi let him meet Itachi for because it was necessary that Sasuke hear Itachi's own explanation. Everything Sasuke did against Kabuto was intended to make sure Itachi does not die in order to answer his questions. Even after Itachi answer him, Sasuke went away from the war in order to find his own answer, which is ironic because he has no answer by himself. He has to trust someone, or he will be used by someone. I hope the person he will meet will be a good one. Otherwise, Orochimaru might trick him and take over his body for good. In that case, the next time you will see him, he might be needing Naruto to really save him as Kyuubi foreshadowed.
    Interesting how you're changing your original claim. Now ignoring that it was he who brought all the players in this war together, the Kages at the summit and then later the thing that Kabuto desired which brought him and the Edo summons into events. Again, at best you can merely claim that Sasuke didn't purposely do anything for this war. But it's undeniable that Sasuke was a critical tool in making this war into what it has become. It was because of his relationship with Sasuke that Naruto was given Shisui's eye which later freed Itachi and allowed him to not only help Naruto, but go on to end Edo Tensei. It was a desire to equal Sasuke that caused Naruto to attempt to master the Kyuubi's chakra in the first place. And it was the tentacle that Sasuke brought Obito that allowed him the piece of the Hachibi needed to awaken the Gedo Mazo.

    Sasuke meeting Itachi to finish his own storyline doesn't change that it was during that storyline, that a major event in this war happen. Sasuke helping Itachi against Kabuto for his own reasons doesn't change that he help Itachi end Edo Tensei, allowing the war to shift into the final stages. And as mentioned before, you don't have any idea where Sasuke's meeting with the one who knows everything will lead. You can't claim in the slightest that it'll lead away from the war, especially when such a large part of this war has involved events from the past. Nor would Sasuke be used by anyone, not in a way that he wouldn't benefit from. In every single partnership, Sasuke has always managed to benefit more then those who were supposedly using him. Sasuke doesn't require anyone else to trust beyond himself. And even if it hadn't been established that Orochimaru is still as weak as he was when he was originally beaten, Sasuke's new abilities would clearly allow him to defend himself with minor trouble. Given that Naruto can barely help himself, the idea that he could help Sasuke in any way is pretty silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    I am a huge Naruto hardcore fan. However, I take my time to read all the characters carefully. I often have a good memory, so that I can remind exactly what is going on. Try to answer this question:

    What is the reason Sasuke will have to participate in the war for?

    I am expecting your answer, but want to let you know that apart from Obito being accomplice of Itachi, Kishi need to build up a new story - a lot of flashback on things we have never seen just like he did to justify Obito=Tobi.
    Why would there need to be a new story built? Sasuke's reason for getting involved in the war would be the same reasoning behind all his actions, personal revenge. He has already admitted a goal of murdering Obito for his role in the Uchiha Massacre, and he's already attempted it twice, so there's no reason he wouldn't attempt it again, especially when he's made it clear his intentions involving Akatsuki. By far, there's no reason for Sasuke not to get involved in the war, when his whole modus operandi is to go after those he believed wronged him, and two of the major figures in this war are such people. Sasuke has made it quite clear he intends to kill both Obito and Naruto, thus there's no reason for him not to attempt so as soon as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingplaya(minato) View Post
    then he didnt/doesnt truly love her...maybe he learnt about how to bring back the dead pretty late and so the idea of just giving his life for her had become stale but if he can bring back madara then im certain he can bring rin back(wasnt he the one that buried her?)
    He loves her in the sense that he wanted her. I doubt the love he has for her is actual love, considering the fact that all she was is a crush of his.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; December 30, 2012 at 11:44 PM.

  10. #413
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Not really. We don't know whether Rinne Tensei does require life as a price to pay to revive another life, otherwise Nagato should have been able to revive only one person. Chances are, Tobi either can't do it with one Rinnegan, isn't an Uzumaki, or incorrectly assumes Rinne Tensei requires sacrificing life to revive another, especially if he thought Nagato had to do it to revive the people.

    Also, Tobi dies one way or another since he'd have to revive Madara, if Rinne TEnsei does require his life.
    I also think it was a wrong assumption from Obito or Madara's side. It's nothing resembling Chiyo's Kisho Tensei. Kisho Tensei looked like a medic jutsu and had nothing to do with the realm of life or death.
    Besides, even if it was the reason Rin couldn't be revived, I'm more than sure Nagato would give away his own life to revive Yahiko, since his death technically was a result of his mistake, holding onto that kunai.

    That's an interesting point that caught my attention, as well. I guess Obito waits to get talk no jutsued back into be a hero, or he would have already cast Rinne Tensei.

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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    I think Tobi's a lot like Nagato, or I think that now ever since Madara said Tobi was genuinely interested in Naruto's answer as Nagato was.

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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Indeed. They are waiting for a miraculous answer, so that they can feel good about entrusting him with the rest of the task.

    Nagato

    Spoiler show


    Obito

    Spoiler show

  13. #416
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Not sure if it'll be like that.

    Either way, Tobi's will be worse because he really has nothing or no good reason for going evil. Nagato at least suffered losses and really did want peace, while Tobi just wants to control people for one reason, and only because he lost the love of his life.


    Gawd, I'm embarrassed by the stupid reason for Tobi turning evil. <_< So embarrassin to type that.




    Jeez, Kishi.

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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    You don't need to be a genius to identify a nuclear warhead as a threat.

    And why would it be unthinkable that Oro kept some secrets even from Kabuto? Kabuto was Orochimarus most trusted and valued pawn, but a pawn nonetheless. Oro wanted to become the ultimate being, having Kabuto as his equal was never his intention.
    A secret scroll that wasn't hidden well?

    Well, I remember naruto when he steal the forbidden scroll back in part 1. So maybe orochimaru's scroll has a title, a summary and how that forbidden jutsu works. maybe that's the reason why suigetsu knows what kind of scroll he found at that lab. He was shocked just by reading the title and the summary. Yea, my bad.

    Kabuto is no doubt a loyal subject of orochimaru. And even if oro would kept secret/s from kabuto, does the scroll is more valuable than the secret of madara's power/rinnegan and the snake sage power? Why would oro let kabuto learned the truth about sasuke's body that could awaken a rinnegan if they inserted hashirama's DNA?

    If oro would kept a secrets from kabuto, it should be the rinnegan and hashirama's DNA ''stuff''. After all, that two would make orochimaru to ultimate being.

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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Not sure if it'll be like that.

    Either way, Tobi's will be worse because he really has nothing or no good reason for going evil. Nagato at least suffered losses and really did want peace, while Tobi just wants to control people for one reason, and only because he lost the love of his life.


    Gawd, I'm embarrassed by the stupid reason for Tobi turning evil. <_< So embarrassin to type that.




    Jeez, Kishi.
    The manga died more or less when Tobi was revealed to be Obito.
    It died once again when Obito replied to Kakashi: "because you let Rin die".
    It can't be helped, though, we have to move on..

    ---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Well, I remember naruto when he steal the forbidden scroll back in part 1. So maybe orochimaru's scroll has a title, a summary and how that forbidden jutsu works. maybe that's the reason why suigetsu knows what kind of scroll he found at that lab. He was shocked just by reading the title and the summary. Yea, my bad.
    Title and the summary
    It looks like a proper essay scheme, maybe Orochimaru was good with the literature in Academy

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  17. #419
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member nitsthegame's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Has anyone considered Jiraya's scroll??

    In which he sealed a part of ametrasu... where is that scroll???

    Narutoverse has too many scrolls floating around with orochimaru running around saying : Gotta catch them all

    With Sasuke entering battle we have three fronts now:

    1. Madara/Obit : Not sure whether IT is really an option.. it must be something to keep obito on madara's side...
    2. SA- We come in Peace
    3. SAsuke/ Orochimaru- their intentions needs to be revealed.. Sasuke's motives have changed throughout the manga. Initally he wanted revenge by killing Itachi, then he wanted to kill the entire konoha, then he wanted to show DESPAIR to Naruto, and now for the first time he has used some sense to actually knw what is happening...

    I remember reading a Kishi interview where it is stated that the final battle is Naruto V. Sasuke

    So Sasuke will be the final villian and he needs a big powerup in some form- He cannot possibly, in current form fight against naruto.....

    Possibility:

    Sasuke decides to help SA to stop obito/ madara just because they manipulated him and in actuality it was their doing that Uchiha got massacred

    Then he ultimate battle between naruto (senju) and sasuke (uchiha) will happen....

    As regards the jyubi..he will be in control of naruto ( the names did give him some power)......

    we are gonna see a lot of talk no jutsu thats for sure


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  18. #420
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    The manga died more or less when Tobi was revealed to be Obito.
    It died once again when Obito replied to Kakashi: "because you let Rin die".
    It can't be helped, though, we have to move on..
    No, there was still a chance as much as I hated Tobito. But the flashback ruined everything.

    Still hoping that it was more htan just Rin's death.

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