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Thread: Naruto 615 Discussion

  1. #631
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    There are blacks in Naruto, but everything Danzou did benefited the village in some way. Killing the Uchiha prevented the war from breaking out, spy organizations helped protect Konoha doing dirty and horrible deeds that the hokage wouldn't have approved of, but what experiment are you talking about?

    I'm not sure if they'd stop him. Hiruzen likely knew what Danzou was doing or could be up to, but he realized that Danzou was doing it for the village. I'm sure Hiruzen could have stopped Danzou somehow, especially when Danzou was working in the shadows.

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  3. #632
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    There are blacks in Naruto, but everything Danzou did benefited the village in some way. Killing the Uchiha prevented the war from breaking out, spy organizations helped protect Konoha doing dirty and horrible deeds that the hokage wouldn't have approved of, but what experiment are you talking about?

    I'm not sure if they'd stop him. Hiruzen likely knew what Danzou was doing or could be up to, but he realized that Danzou was doing it for the village. I'm sure Hiruzen could have stopped Danzou somehow, especially when Danzou was working in the shadows.
    Please name me a few characters who are more villainous than Danzou. You talk about Danzou only acted to protect Konoha, but is he protecting its people, or to strengthen it because runs the place? Well, he certainly didn't care about the lives of all the people he used and sacrificed. Self justification for terrible acts doesn't mean he isn't evil. Its like me raping women because I wanted to provide another sibling for my son. Yea... Its still villainous, even though my intents are not. Danzou clearly passes these lines, where his actions can no longer be justified by his intents. It's like saying Hitler is not evil because he only wanted to unify and strengthen Germany by killing Jews. You can make these "protection" of national interest excuses for almost every conflict. But when that many morales are compromised and that many lives are either killed or ruined, you no longer fall into that grey area.

    Danzou colluded, or at least condoned, Orochimaru's human experiments. He is clearly involved in it whether its directly or indirectly. As a high ranking official, he has to take responsibility for that as well. Hiruzen should have stopped him, but he is a pansy and almost everybody walked all over him. Kakashi has already tried to undermine his schemes. Shikaku had also gone against Danzou taking the Hokage role after Tsunada went down. They don't trust him and they don't even know half of the shitty things he did.
    Last edited by chilibun; January 05, 2013 at 02:12 AM.

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  5. #633
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    orochimaru is more villainous than Danzou...
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

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  7. #634
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by EMS View Post
    orochimaru is more villainous than Danzou...
    Maybe by intentions, but Danzou easily caused more deaths and ruined more lives. Heck, I'd say Danzou is even more conniving, underhanded, and ruthless in the way he conducts his business.

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  9. #635
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Maybe by intentions, but Danzou easily caused more deaths and ruined more lives. Heck, I'd say Danzou is even more conniving, underhanded, and ruthless in the way he conducts his business.
    But Danzou's ultimate goal was always what he thought was best for Konoha. Orochimaru's goal was always what was best for himself. Orochimaru's motives and methods make him a villain. Danzou's just make him ruthless. There's a difference.

    ---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Maybe by intentions, but Danzou easily caused more deaths and ruined more lives. Heck, I'd say Danzou is even more conniving, underhanded, and ruthless in the way he conducts his business.
    That does not make one a villain. It just makes you a dick.

    ---------- Post added at 08:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Please name me a few characters who are more villainous than Danzou.
    Kakuzu definitely.
    I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

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  11. #636
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Back at Part I, a villain was whoever opposed Konoha. Orochimaru was a villain, and Danzo was an anti-hero.
    Now, a villain has to be someone against the Shinobi alliance at this point. Consider this. If Danzo was alive now, would he fight against the Alliance or would he join them until he dies on the battlefield? I can easily call it the latter. Oonoki changed during the war, coming to understand his flawed perceptions, and Danzo is no different than him.

  12. #637
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    I hope kishi is about to move the scene towards either the kages or sasuke. tsunade should have already healed the others,and katsuyu should have healed tsunade,those strong guys have to join the fight!

  13. #638
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    I hope kishi is about to move the scene towards either the kages or sasuke. tsunade should have already healed the others,and katsuyu should have healed tsunade,those strong guys have to join the fight!
    we really need a big break from naruto and obito and switching to sasuke and orochimaru will be the best for a good 2013..i had enough of talk not jutsu and stupidity, the only want that save the day is madara..
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  14. #639
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Please name me a few characters who are more villainous than Danzou. You talk about Danzou only acted to protect Konoha, but is he protecting its people, or to strengthen it because runs the place? Well, he certainly didn't care about the lives of all the people he used and sacrificed. Self justification for terrible acts doesn't mean he isn't evil. Its like me raping women because I wanted to provide another sibling for my son. Yea... Its still villainous, even though my intents are not. Danzou clearly passes these lines, where his actions can no longer be justified by his intents. It's like saying Hitler is not evil because he only wanted to unify and strengthen Germany by killing Jews. You can make these "protection" of national interest excuses for almost every conflict. But when that many morales are compromised and that many lives are either killed or ruined, you no longer fall into that grey area.
    Orochimaru and Tobi are villainous. Both don't act for the shinobi world, but for what they want. Danzou at least to a degree does what he does for Konoha, regardless of the method. He throws away life, and thinks his is important to change the world, and was willing to kill his best or former best friend, but it wasn't just for power.

    You raping women is different from Danzou killing enemies of Konoha and protecting it. It's likely if he didn't do those things, Konoha would have been worse off.

    Hitler was evil because apparently, he scapegoated the Jewish for power and to get people on his side. The Jewish didn't hurt the Germans or Germany in any way. Danzou can't really be evil because he's not scapegoating anyone, other than Uchiha. He's genuinely taking out threats, like how he planned to kill Sasuke by sending Sai on a mission. I don't think it's any different from what the FBI does, or what most government agencies in any country do. There is no morale for Root, it's why they undergo the training to get rid of emotion.

    And in some cases, ends justify the means. I'm not saying I like Danzou, I think he's a dipshit for what he's done, but his motivation wasn't just for himself.

    Quote Quote:
    Danzou colluded, or at least condoned, Orochimaru's human experiments. He is clearly involved in it whether its directly or indirectly. As a high ranking official, he has to take responsibility for that as well. Hiruzen should have stopped him, but he is a pansy and almost everybody walked all over him. Kakashi has already tried to undermine his schemes. Shikaku had also gone against Danzou taking the Hokage role after Tsunada went down. They don't trust him and they don't even know half of the shitty things he did.
    I'm not disagreeing with that, but Danzou apparently did it for Konoha's sake. Hiruzen should have, but he most likely chose not to because he couldn't make decisions that could make people lose their faith. I guess Danzou was the shadow for Hiruzen, making decisions Hiruzen knew he should have, but couldn't.

    You also forgot Jiraiya warning Tsunade about Danzou, and how the other kage suspected Danzou's hand in Hiruzen's death, the attack on Konoha, and collaborating with Orochimaru on that attack. I can also name other things that Danzou has done that was pretty evil, which is why I think although he's grey, he is so close to crossing to the black.

  15. #640
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Orochimaru and Tobi are villainous. Both don't act for the shinobi world, but for what they want. Danzou at least to a degree does what he does for Konoha, regardless of the method. He throws away life, and thinks his is important to change the world, and was willing to kill his best or former best friend, but it wasn't just for power.

    You raping women is different from Danzou killing enemies of Konoha and protecting it. It's likely if he didn't do those things, Konoha would have been worse off.

    Hitler was evil because apparently, he scapegoated the Jewish for power and to get people on his side. The Jewish didn't hurt the Germans or Germany in any way. Danzou can't really be evil because he's not scapegoating anyone, other than Uchiha. He's genuinely taking out threats, like how he planned to kill Sasuke by sending Sai on a mission. I don't think it's any different from what the FBI does, or what most government agencies in any country do. There is no morale for Root, it's why they undergo the training to get rid of emotion. Pain makes a lot more sense as a high school bully then he does as an actual political leader.

    And in some cases, ends justify the means. I'm not saying I like Danzou, I think he's a dipshit for what he's done, but his motivation wasn't just for himself.



    I'm not disagreeing with that, but Danzou apparently did it for Konoha's sake. Hiruzen should have, but he most likely chose not to because he couldn't make decisions that could make people lose their faith. I guess Danzou was the shadow for Hiruzen, making decisions Hiruzen knew he should have, but couldn't.

    You also forgot Jiraiya warning Tsunade about Danzou, and how the other kage suspected Danzou's hand in Hiruzen's death, the attack on Konoha, and collaborating with Orochimaru on that attack. I can also name other things that Danzou has done that was pretty evil, which is why I think although he's grey, he is so close to crossing to the black.
    If Danzou were real he would be a wanted criminal, the ICC would have issued an arrest warrant for crimes against humanity. There would be no gray zone, Root alone would be enough reason to prosecute him. Brainwashing war orphans from a young age, stripping them of any identity, and turning them into teenage soldiers, is very much against international law. There is no question that Konoha would be forced to turn him over for prosecution, or face sanctions for harboring a criminal. Danzou would be sentenced to life in prison if he were real. Acting for Konoha's sake would not have anything to do with it. In the eyes of the law he would be every bit the criminal as Orochimaru, Tobi and Akatsuki. In moral terms too, he would be every bit the criminal.

    Applying real world historical and political standards to a manga with such a simplistic (accepting others for they are can end all conflict. bullshit.) world view as Naruto is kind of a fail anyway. Naruto is really no more than an analogy about how to fit in, make friends, and overcome bullying in middle and high school. Ksihi tried to mix in politics and morals in a lame attempt to emulate FMA. He must not have realized that FMA really was about science, religion, and politics, while Naruto is, and remains, a coming of age story (most Jump manga are). FMA was never bogged down by concepts like the "will of fire" and "power of hate", which make a lot of sense if growing up is the main theme, but are incredibly simple minded when discussing adult life. Pain makes a lot more sense as a high school bully than he does as leader of a terrorist organization. Danzou makes more sense as a domineering vice-principal than he does as majordomo of a major nation.
    Last edited by Kaiten; January 05, 2013 at 01:35 PM.

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  17. #641
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    sasuke the 10 tails host, he always need to put naruto as the underdog.
    but if they take out all the beast from the 10 tails, will the 10 tails be strong as he is now. i mean hes nature monster, as long there is element around him. hes the boss, but if obito fight with the 10 tail host in hes D.D will the 10 tails be usless since there is no nature there.

    in the end, it does not matter if sasuke is the host of the 10 tails cause naruto is going to win, i hate stuff like that.
    i mean onepiece is like that. and i dont get mad. it that clone plus resengan make me sick. every smart ninja or strong ninja need to get beat by those 2 move.


    i really dont like naruto at all. some people like naruto, but come on, a orange guy who only use 2 move and they can break all hes bone and he still stand up. is that real. or someone close all shes chackra point to the point were you cant even move a finger. and he manage to move hes hand to make a chackra seal.


    if minato was the main character. i know he was almost the same. resengan plus SPT, but he knew alot of sealing jutsu and he would use it, and in the meddle of the fight he come up with the counter, but he would let us know what he was going to do before he do......but naruto...clone attack with resengan. do it again, again....oohhh some how i got him...now talk no jutsu.

    luffy is stupid, but he come up with alot of different move. to show us that hes really trying to win by giving a really good fight.

    zehahahahaha when i see naruto fighting, it like im watching wwe john cena,


    Guys 10 day away from now. i dont know what to do to keep me busy while waiting.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

  18. #642
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    even if there is a juubi host, it won't be for so long, naruto promises to free son goku and the rest of the biuujus but i don't see sasuke becaming the juubi host, i will believe more obtaining the rinnegan or evolve version of his EMS, an unique version..
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  19. #643
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by EMS View Post
    even if there is a juubi host, it won't be for so long, naruto promises to free son goku and the rest of the biuujus but i don't see sasuke becaming the juubi host, i will believe more obtaining the rinnegan or evolve version of his EMS, an unique version..

    i wonder if naruto free all tails beast, will the 10 tails beast will be poof like a clone or will stay there but weak, but compare to the 9 tails is stronger.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

  20. #644
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Hi guys long time no see.

    I see we are still discussing Danzou, the Uchiha, Saru etc etc it's a interesting topic indeed xD.

    enmymiguel

    Although I don't agree with your post, the part about Sasuke being the jinchuuriki of the 10 Tails made me think about a theory, which I don't know how original it is, but I never read anything like this before.

    We all know that when Obito lost Nagato after the Invasion of Konoha, he told Zetsu that he planned to make Sasuke link with the Gedo Mazou. At the time it was unclear what that meant, but now we know what it means: To link with the Mazou one needs the Rinnegan: the Sage's Kekkei Genkai. And now we also know how to get the Rinnegan: Uchiha dna (in it's "ultimate" form ie EMS) + Hashirama's dna (and control over it). Only then can one awake the Rinnegan, as we saw with Madara.

    Sasuke as of now acheived the 1st condition, the EMS. As for the 2nd Obito, planning to make Sasuke replace Nagato might very well, during the surgery to transplant Itachi's eyes, have implanted Hashirama's dna in Sasuke. (Which would also allow for a faster recovery most likely).

    Now, even if Sasuke acheived control over Hashirama's dna and gets the Rinnegan he would need his own motivation to want to become the 10 Tails jinchuuriki. And I think he has it.

    The scroll Suigetsu found in Orochimaru's hideout imo is Oro's research on the Rinnegan. That's why Suigetsu said they could take control over the war: Rinnegan---> controll over the Mazou----> control over the Bijuu. And that's why imo Sasuke got Orochimaru back, because he is the one who made the research and the one who can help him find and question the "man who knows everything" ie Uchiha Madara.

    As for Sasuke's motivation to get the Rinnegan and become the 10 Tails jin. Which means imo Sasuke getting interested in the Eye of the Moon Plan. His motivation is simple actually.

    1st: The Rinnegan and the 10 Tails can give him the power to actually "destroy" Konoha, which by now means: Kill all of konoha's people. Now that Konoha is allied with the rest of the shinobi world, Sasuke needs something that can go against the Alliance.

    2nd: Through the Eye of the Moon Plan he can create a world where the Uchiha clan never died, where Itachi is still alive, where he was never left alone. As Itachi said "reality is what one perceives to be real" something like that xD. therefore Sasuke would be able to Revive his clan. That would be his reality.

    This being truth, we have now 3 people interested in the Eye of the Moon Plan: Madara, Obito and Sasuke (with Orochimaru making a power grab when given the opportunity in a snake like form hehe). And 3 people who don't trust each other. All of them will want to be the Jinchuuriki and perform the Mugen Tsukuyomi themselves. Madara is the weakest side (unless he comes out with some crazy ass jutsu again) because he is an Edo Tensei and is thefore dependent on Obito or Sasuke. Obito has already made clear that he doesn't plan to let control slip from his hands. Sasuke will be the same, he will trust no one.

    And as enmymiguel said, Naruto needs to be somehow the underdog. Right now imo Naruto is stronger than Sasuke. He has a lot of experience fighting against the Sharingan, and even the MS. His Bijuu Mode is superior to Sasuke's Susanoo, Tsukuyomi will not work on Naruto, and Naruto is fast enough to avoid Amaterasu in the same fashion as the Raikage. So Sasuke definetly needs a power up. I don't say he will become the 10Tails Jin, which I think unlikely, but the Rinnegan and some Mokuton + boost in stamina would help a lot.

    ---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by enmymiguel View Post
    i wonder if naruto free all tails beast, will the 10 tails beast will be poof like a clone or will stay there but weak, but compare to the 9 tails is stronger.
    I think the most obvious outcome is the 10Tails reverting back to the Mazou.

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  22. #645
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions | NO CHAPTER UNTIL Jan 15/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
    1st: The Rinnegan and the 10 Tails can give him the power to actually "destroy" Konoha, which by now means: Kill all of konoha's people. Now that Konoha is allied with the rest of the shinobi world, Sasuke needs something that can go against the Alliance.
    So, after more than half of the Shinobi world died, mountains were destroyed, the hell surfaced on the real world, Sasuke will come out and say he will destroy Konoha, hmm..


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