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View Poll Results: Is this chapter the death of NarutoxSakura?

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Thread: Naruto 615 Discussion

  1. #346
    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Funny to hear Tobi talking about the loss of parents and mentors. Isn't he the one who helped wipe out his clan, and was responsible for the death of his own mentor? Yeah, Naruto is way ahead of you dude.

    I'm happy about this chapter, but I'm still sorta afraid. My preffered Ships always get sunk no matter how safe they seem. I mean Spidey/MJ got messed up for crying out loud!

    What does it mean? It means your about to get your butt kicked!

  2. #347
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    I really wasn't expecting my hand holding Kumbaya-no-Jutsu joke from a few weeks back to actually take place...wtf Kishi.

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

  3. #348
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Angillis View Post
    Funny to hear Tobi talking about the loss of parents and mentors. Isn't he the one who helped wipe out his clan, and was responsible for the death of his own mentor? Yeah, Naruto is way ahead of you dude.

    I'm happy about this chapter, but I'm still sorta afraid. My preffered Ships always get sunk no matter how safe they seem. I mean Spidey/MJ got messed up for crying out loud!
    Yeah I mentioned something about it before - he's kind of a putz, for lack of better words. To make matters worse, in one of his flashbacks there was a picture of a baby and a few adults. If we assume the picture was of him and his parents, then Tobi may have even had parents. We know nothing about them or if they were alive or dead but imagine if he took them out while helping Sasuke wipe out his clan. lol There's really no way around Obito IMO. He helped end the life of his menter/Minato's family, made Naruto an orphan, murdered Torune in cold blood, is a fraud, and is a war criminal that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in the Narutoverse. All of this... because the girl he liked died & the only saving grace is that I don't think we know the whole story behind it.

  4. #349
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken
    The key thing about this is exactly what you pointed out: Time. The war is developing quite fast. Even if Sasuke was to get the Rinnegan right at this point, he would need years to completely master it and stand up to Madara. Even casting this aside, I can't see Sasuke countering every move Madara can make. Madara has a ton of battle experience under his belt. That's why I called him an Uchiha brat. Madara refers to Oonoki as a brat, who is the oldest Kage in the alliance by far, I assume. Sasuke doesn't have the experience to match Madara's mastery at this point.
    Umm... Madara died shortly after aquiring his Rinnegan. There was no such "time to master his abilities" so to think that his mastery of it is on a level beyond what Sasuke could have, after only recently aquiring it would be stretching things IMO. It would literally take one fight on his way to the battlefield for Sasuke to learn what his Rinnegan was capable of, if that. Especially since just like the MS/EMS abilities, they are all internally aquired without the need to innovate or practice. I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the initial activation of the Rinnegan Sasuke simply "understands" how it works thanks to having so much experience with the MS.

    Quote Quote:
    It's no doubt his doujutsu skills aren't that far off from being top notch. I just can't see him (and actually don't want to see him) to master some new ability in a couple of days and hold his ground against a legendary Shinobi. After all that build up, it would be a lame end to Madara's side of the story.
    Yeah, let's not do that. Only Naruto can gain a powerup and immediately master it within the 15 minutes of it previously being aquired, right?

  5. #350
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Umm... Madara died shortly after aquiring his Rinnegan. There was no such "time to master his abilities" so to think that his mastery of it is on a level beyond what Sasuke could have, after only recently aquiring it would be stretching things IMO. It would literally take one fight on his way to the battlefield for Sasuke to learn what his Rinnegan was capable of, if that. Especially since just like the MS/EMS abilities, they are all internally aquired without the need to innovate or practice. I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the initial activation of the Rinnegan Sasuke simply "understands" how it works thanks to having so much experience with the MS.
    Didn't Madara awaken the Rinnegan on the verge of his death and then summoned the Mazou, attached himself to it to live through? This is as far as I recall, of course. I may be wrong here.
    If Rinnegan didn't require any mastery to perform the said techniques, why didn't Nagato use Rinne Tensei on Yahiko? My sole explanation to this question is he didn't know how to use it at that point. Remember, Obito approached Nagato before Yahiko's death and talked about the nature of his eyes. It was quite possible that Rinne Tensei was mastered by Madara before his death, and then somehow passed on to Nagato through Obito.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Yeah, let's not do that. Only Naruto can gain a powerup and immediately master it within the 15 minutes of it previously being aquired, right?
    It's my personal preference. I don't like it when Naruto, or Sasuke, or whoever that person may be, completely masters a technique immediately. Just because Naruto's power development is messed up, does this mean Sasuke, too, should share the same fate with him?

  6. #351
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post

    "So then he just kills Sasuke. Done deal." Right? Wrong. After seeing the steaming pile in this recent chapter it's become apparent that Kishimoto will always go the fanservice route. From reviving Itachi to make him make a fool of Kabuto, to reviving Orochimaru as Sasuke's lacky, anything that will bring a smile to a fan regardless of how much sense it makes is a-Go. If there was ever a doubt in anyone's minds that Sasuke was gonna survive this war, Naru/Hina just proved you wrong. Sasuke's gonna live and have his happy ending. So, why not do something amazing and let him change from his own resolve? Kishimoto's already lain the ground work with his pilgrimage to find "The human who knows everything."

    So yeah. Sasuke has to redeem the Uchiha clan (which was going to be done by killing Itachi and returning to Konoha as a hero). What better way to show that not all Uchiha are lost causes than for an Uchiha to clean up the mess started by an Uchiha? Seeing Naruto talk down Obito, then Madara, then Sasuke all the same way would be outrageously anticlimactic to me. And yeah, I hate Naruto, and Sasuke's my favorite character, so blame it on my bias if you want. But it has nothing to do with Madara being "stronger" or "too cool to lose to Naruto". Even if Madara was weaker than Obito I'd still want his end to come from an Uchiha. It just fits.
    Quote Originally Posted by jalix View Post
    It's an interesting twist... I figured Sasuke would play into Madara's demise because he didn't seem at all pleased to leran Madara was still around after the jutsu had been dispersed. But I don't think Madara will be talked down or converted by anyone. That old SOB sat in a cave for myabe 70 years or more surrounded by talking plants, and if he didn't change his mind then I don't think he will now. I still somewhat hold onto the prediction that he may be done away with by the jyuubi itself. The very thing he wanted may be his undoing since let's face it, Obito ain't going to sacrifice his life for him and I'm not at all convinced Madara doesn't have some other plan he'll use to backstab Obito.

    Obito on the other hand has shown signs of being talked down. Kishimoto will have a job on hishands because I don't see Obito being too redeemable or 'good'. The guy's murdered in cold blood and had no value at all for actual, real human life. He's a sociopath, really. But the extending his hand, the 'you remind me of my former self' inner thought, the exposure of his pain... ugh... like Phil Collins said (sorry), I can see it coming in the air at night...
    I only took into account the Sasuke parts of both posts. A while ago, when Sasuke was blindly chasing after power to kill Itachi, I told some fan that is character was messed up. Moreover, I said that considering the way Sasuke left Konoha and treated Naruto, his return or redemption would be very complicated. Worst, I also said that after killing Itachi, something tragic would happen that would ring the end of his role in the manga. Many people in most of the forum I was treated me to be a hater. However, regarding the current states of the series, Sasuke has become purposeless to the point that he had played no role in the series since Danzo. Who wants to see him, and for what reasons?

    In my opinion, any person who wants a good plot will not want Sasuke in the current war because it does not make any sense. Sasuke left Tobi and raged on Obito. Madara was already dead, and nothing said that Madara asked Obito to kill the Uchiha. In fact, Madara was betrayed by his clan, and left alone powerless. So my opinion is that Madara was a victim of the Uchiha and got hurt so badly that he never got peace until he became crippled. From Obito's behavior, I am almost certain that he acted on his own in the Uchiha massacre, and therefore Sasuke has nothing against Madara.

    For those who have been reading Naruto carefully, they should notice Naruto is the Natural enemy of Madara uchiha. Without comparing their power, I will focus on the reasons. Obito was entrusted with the moon eye plan by Madara. Minato noticed that whoever was behind Obito's idea would become a threat to the world. Minata sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto to stop the threat. This means that from the manga perspective, Obito+Madara vs Naruto +SA was a destined fight. It should be also noted that without Juubi, Obito would be already dead or incapacitated. Given Sasuke's confusion and the fact that he is against Naruto, I claim that Sasuke has no role to play in this war or against Madara. Besides, I don't see any power up of Sasuke that can compete with current Madara.

  7. #352
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    i got to the point that i wish madara will kill obito and naruto....tobi was a great character even we though he could be rikudo sennin or one of his sons but after the mask came off, it was destroy by obito...anyway at least we got madara and sasuke still while oro is back to the game..
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

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  9. #353
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Didn't Madara awaken the Rinnegan on the verge of his death and then summoned the Mazou, attached himself to it to live through? This is as far as I recall, of course. I may be wrong here.
    If Rinnegan didn't require any mastery to perform the said techniques, why didn't Nagato use Rinne Tensei on Yahiko? My sole explanation to this question is he didn't know how to use it at that point. Remember, Obito approached Nagato before Yahiko's death and talked about the nature of his eyes. It was quite possible that Rinne Tensei was mastered by Madara before his death, and then somehow passed on to Nagato through Obito.
    Makes you wonder what else might've been on those tablets... though unfortunately you need varying levels of Secret Decodor Rings found in Fruity (or Cocoa) Pebbles cereal to be able to read them... The more cereal you buy, the better chance you have of being able to read what teh 'rinnegan' tablet said...

    Otherwise, I too sometimes wonder about Nagato's and Madara's mastery of the rinnegan. Not to mention the only thing I think we've seen Obito use was the linked field of vision with the jinchuuriki. Heh, speaking of which, I guess everyone has decided to just go ahead and ignore Obito's mokuton abilities, which he always had. I wonder how much of an errand boy Obito was, using the eyes etc. before maybe training Nagato how to use some things or linking him to the Mazou? I still think it was interesting that Nagato smirked when he summoned the Mazou vs. Danzou & Hanzou... maybe the smirk was Madara's influence.

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  11. #354
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by jalix View Post
    Makes you wonder what else might've been on those tablets... though unfortunately you need varying levels of Secret Decodor Rings found in Fruity (or Cocoa) Pebbles cereal to be able to read them... The more cereal you buy, the better chance you have of being able to read what teh 'rinnegan' tablet said...

    Otherwise, I too sometimes wonder about Nagato's and Madara's mastery of the rinnegan. Not to mention the only thing I think we've seen Obito use was the linked field of vision with the jinchuuriki. Heh, speaking of which, I guess everyone has decided to just go ahead and ignore Obito's mokuton abilities, which he always had. I wonder how much of an errand boy Obito was, using the eyes etc. before maybe training Nagato how to use some things or linking him to the Mazou? I still think it was interesting that Nagato smirked when he summoned the Mazou vs. Danzou & Hanzou... maybe the smirk was Madara's influence.
    Well, Nagato said his power couldn't possibly compare to the Rikudou Sennin, though I don't know how he knows of his true power and to what degree.
    So, it's highly unlikely that even Madara accomplished such feat.
    That lunatic smile was probably because due to the taste of the feeling revenge.

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  13. #355
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Nagato used the moon as comparison. He said his chibaku tensei paled in comparison to Rikudou Sennin's, which is currently the moon. Nagato was unable to create a huge Chibaku Tensei, though that could be attributed to him not being a jinchuuriki and being hella low on chakra due to the invasion, super Shinra Tensei, and fighting Naruto. Nagato is Gagato.

    Madara currently could do a huge-scale chibaku tensei since he's both an Edo Tensei and has Hashirama's cells.

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  15. #356
    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    While I'm annoyed at Naruto getting affected by Tobi's hanabbel lecture, I can understand how it happened. Obito was a lot like Naruto. He just says and does the kind of things that would have broken him. The big difference is that Tobi is trash who threw away, betrayed, and murdered or seeks to murder his former friends. Naruto had decided he will never do that, no matter how far Sasuke falls.

    Course now Tobi is going to be targeting Hinata if he really wants to cause Naruto to despair.

    What does it mean? It means your about to get your butt kicked!

  16. #357
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    I wonder whether hiashi is jealous of his daughter or if he will be proud of her. I mean,becoming the father in law of the incoming Kage must be a honour

  17. #358
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    It's really time for sasuke to make his appearing, I'm getting bored of obito and naruto...
    living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

  18. #359
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww
    I only took into account the Sasuke parts of both posts. A while ago, when Sasuke was blindly chasing after power to kill Itachi, I told some fan that is character was messed up. Moreover, I said that considering the way Sasuke left Konoha and treated Naruto, his return or redemption would be very complicated. Worst, I also said that after killing Itachi, something tragic would happen that would ring the end of his role in the manga. Many people in most of the forum I was treated me to be a hater. However, regarding the current states of the series, Sasuke has become purposeless to the point that he had played no role in the series since Danzo. Who wants to see him, and for what reasons?
    You'll find that TONS of people (even those who hate Sasuke) want to see him. Whether to see Naruto beat him up, to see what new abilities he aquired, to see how he reacts to meeting Uchiha Madara, to see how Naruto successfully "fixes" him, or just because it adds a new avenue to the current events in the manga. Infact, I don't think there's a single poster here that believes Sasuke simply disappearing serves the manga in any way, shape, or form. The majority of posters here despise Obito, so no one wants to see the manga end with him as Naruto's greatest opponent. Tons of people love Madara, but want something different from "Madara returns for vengeance and is defeated by another Senju-affiliated ninja because that's how it's supposed to be".

    Personally: Sasuke is my favorite character in the manga, and everything happening currently is par for the course til we actually get back to him.

    Quote Quote:
    In my opinion, any person who wants a good plot will not want Sasuke in the current war because it does not make any sense. Sasuke left Tobi and raged on Obito. Madara was already dead, and nothing said that Madara asked Obito to kill the Uchiha. In fact, Madara was betrayed by his clan, and left alone powerless. So my opinion is that Madara was a victim of the Uchiha and got hurt so badly that he never got peace until he became crippled. From Obito's behavior, I am almost certain that he acted on his own in the Uchiha massacre, and therefore Sasuke has nothing against Madara.
    The entire war is about Naruto changing the ninja world with love and determination. Sasuke is the only person he hasn't successfully changed yet. That means that symbolically, HE is the true test of his will. Not Obito, not Madara. How you could think that ignoring the most important aspect of Naruto's driving force ISN'T incredibly important to the plot... I dunno. On top of that, Sasuke doesn't need any personal vendetta to stop Madara or Obito. Though he does have one: Sasuke challenging Obito and Madara both would allow him to finally protect Konoha aswell as redeem the Uchiha clan the way Itachi always wanted him to. You're essentially asking Kishimoto to retcon all of that.


    Quote Quote:
    For those who have been reading Naruto carefully, they should notice Naruto is the Natural enemy of Madara uchiha. Without comparing their power, I will focus on the reasons. Obito was entrusted with the moon eye plan by Madara. Minato noticed that whoever was behind Obito's idea would become a threat to the world. Minata sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto to stop the threat. This means that from the manga perspective, Obito+Madara vs Naruto +SA was a destined fight. It should be also noted that without Juubi, Obito would be already dead or incapacitated. Given Sasuke's confusion and the fact that he is against Naruto, I claim that Sasuke has no role to play in this war or against Madara. Besides, I don't see any power up of Sasuke that can compete with current Madara.
    All it would take is a Rinnegan for Sasuke to instantly become more powerful of an ally than a large percentage of all of the ninja on the battlefield. And Sasuke is against Naruto because he's standing in the way of his vengeance (which he is no longer doting on). Madara however (and/or Obito) were influential in the death of tons of Uchiha making them Sasuke's enemies aswell.

    ---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken
    Didn't Madara awaken the Rinnegan on the verge of his death and then summoned the Mazou, attached himself to it to live through? This is as far as I recall, of course. I may be wrong here.
    Manga says "shortly before his death". Meaning he died almost immediately after. I think he summoned Mazou and set up his life support system, THEN he went and put the eyes inside of Nagato before meeting Obito and dying. Regardless, there wasn't much time to for a crash course in Rinnegan mastery.

    Quote Quote:
    If Rinnegan didn't require any mastery to perform the said techniques, why didn't Nagato use Rinne Tensei on Yahiko? My sole explanation to this question is he didn't know how to use it at that point. Remember, Obito approached Nagato before Yahiko's death and talked about the nature of his eyes. It was quite possible that Rinne Tensei was mastered by Madara before his death, and then somehow passed on to Nagato through Obito.
    Maybe you're right about that one particular jutsu. Still, there is atleast some instantly aquired expertise. Look at what Nagato did to that random fodder ninja when he first awakened the eye.

  19. #360
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Alterno's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 615 Discussion / 616 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    For those who have been reading Naruto carefully, they should notice Naruto is the Natural enemy of Madara uchiha. Without comparing their power, I will focus on the reasons. Obito was entrusted with the moon eye plan by Madara. Minato noticed that whoever was behind Obito's idea would become a threat to the world. Minata sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto to stop the threat. This means that from the manga perspective, Obito+Madara vs Naruto +SA was a destined fight. It should be also noted that without Juubi, Obito would be already dead or incapacitated. Given Sasuke's confusion and the fact that he is against Naruto, I claim that Sasuke has no role to play in this war or against Madara. Besides, I don't see any power up of Sasuke that can compete with current Madara.
    (With all the respect you deserve)...

    That last paragraph you wrote pretty much shows that you are forgetting a few things that have happened in this manga, to no say a total lack of knowledge of story so far. Let's puts things in the right perspective:

    1. Obito's abilities is what motivated Minato to seal the Kyuubi inside of his Son. He knew that to defeat someone with Obito's skilll set a special power would be needed.
    2. Obito would not be dead or incapacitated without the Juubi, actually two shinobi were (Kakashi and Naruto) and one of them needed to have the same ability as him (Kamui), in other to even hit the guy. And remember that Kakashi was pretty much done without Kyuubi's help http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c609/10.html
    3. He have not used Rinnengan Techniques, except for Gedou Mazou summoning.

    In conclusion Obito should not be understimaded, my prediction is that Sasuke, will join Madara and Obito, redemption is not possible for him.

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