Naruto 615 Discussion

[Rikudou King]

For those who have been reading Naruto carefully, they should notice Naruto is the Natural enemy of Madara uchiha. Without comparing their power, I will focus on the reasons. Obito was entrusted with the moon eye plan by Madara. Minato noticed that whoever was behind Obito's idea would become a threat to the world. Minata sealed Kyuubi inside Naruto to stop the threat. This means that from the manga perspective, Obito+Madara vs Naruto +SA was a destined fight. It should be also noted that without Juubi, Obito would be already dead or incapacitated. Given Sasuke's confusion and the fact that he is against Naruto, I claim that Sasuke has no role to play in this war or against Madara. Besides, I don't see any power up of Sasuke that can compete with current Madara.

Some corrections. It wasn't "whoever was behind", Minato gave Naruto the Kyuubi to specifically counter the masked man, Obito. Obito was the one he believed was a threat to the world. So the "destined" fight is not Madara+Obito vs Naruto+Allied Army, but Obito vs Naruto before things got shoehorned into the current mess.

And as for powers, it's not like there's anyone around that is measuring up to the likes of Madara. Hardly the current standard.

[marshall313]

(With all the respect you deserve)...

That last paragraph you wrote pretty much shows that you are forgetting a few things that have happened in this manga, to no say a total lack of knowledge of story so far. Let's puts things in the right perspective:

1. Obito's abilities is what motivated Minato to seal the Kyuubi inside of his Son. He knew that to defeat someone with Obito's skilll set a special power would be needed.
2. Obito would not be dead or incapacitated without the Juubi, actually two shinobi were (Kakashi and Naruto) and one of them needed to have the same ability as him (Kamui), in other to even hit the guy. And remember that Kakashi was pretty much done without Kyuubi's help http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c609/10.html
3. He have not used Rinnengan Techniques, except for Gedou Mazou summoning.

In conclusion Obito should not be understimaded, my prediction is that Sasuke, will join Madara and Obito, redemption is not possible for him.

To defeat someone with obito's skills?

I think the first reason on why minato sealed kurama to his son is kushina. So for saying that obito's abilities is what motivated minato to seal the kyubi to his son isn't right.

Minato didn't sacrificed his life just to defeat obito. But he sacrificed his life for kushina to see the grown up naruto. It sounds to me that for you, obito's skills/abilities is too much for minato to handle. But from what the manga has shown, it wasn't the case. Minato did sacrificed his life by using the shiki fuin just for kushina, and not for obito's abilities.

[DevilsNeverCry]

If it was a one on one, Minato vs Obito, with no other factors like say the Kyuubi destroying the village or his wife and newborn son in mortal peril, Minato would defeat Obito. With Rinnegan? Who knows. I guess he'd need to understand it first.

I predict a return of Sasuke in 616 just to break away from the war for a bit.

[Hakuteiken]

(With all the respect you deserve)...

That last paragraph you wrote pretty much shows that you are forgetting a few things that have happened in this manga, to no say a total lack of knowledge of story so far. Let's puts things in the right perspective:

1. Obito's abilities is what motivated Minato to seal the Kyuubi inside of his Son. He knew that to defeat someone with Obito's skilll set a special power would be needed.
2. Obito would not be dead or incapacitated without the Juubi, actually two shinobi were (Kakashi and Naruto) and one of them needed to have the same ability as him (Kamui), in other to even hit the guy. And remember that Kakashi was pretty much done without Kyuubi's help http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c609/10.html
3. He have not used Rinnengan Techniques, except for Gedou Mazou summoning.

In conclusion Obito should not be understimaded, my prediction is that Sasuke, will join Madara and Obito, redemption is not possible for him.

I'd say Minato rather knew that the Kyuubi cannot be stopped by some other way. If he feared Obito's skills, he would try to use Shiki Fuujin on him instead. He knew that masked man was no ordinary man, but he couldn't possibly be his priority at that point.
And I can't see Obito holding back the entire alliance on his own, with or without Rinnegan jutsu. Not to underestimate anyone, but quantity wins over quality sometimes.

---------- Post added at 03:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 AM ----------

If it was a one on one, Minato vs Obito, with no other factors like say the Kyuubi destroying the village or his wife and newborn son in mortal peril, Minato would defeat Obito. With Rinnegan? Who knows. I guess he'd need to understand it first.

I predict a return of Sasuke in 616 just to break away from the war for a bit.

Didn't he already defeat Obito at that night

[UchihaUchiha]

If Kishi brings Sasuke back in 616 doin the battlefield entrance of the century challenging Uchiha Madara for a one on one fight while Itachi smilin proudly down on him i would forgive him tobi being obito

[Uchiha_Blood]

Maybe you're right about that one particular jutsu. Still, there is atleast some instantly aquired expertise. Look at what Nagato did to that random fodder ninja when he first awakened the eye.

Maybe Rin'negans wielders get one jutsu at a time, and it takes them time, training and whatever for them to unlock new powers.
From what we see, newbies Rin'negan users seems to be proficent with only one power ( maybe inspired by their personality, or whatever ) :
Nagato, when he blacked out, clearly used Shinra Tensei, and seemed generally more proficent with the powers of Deva Realm than any other. Madara showed mastery of Preta Path, while Obito showed mastery over Gedo path ( even though he threatened Kabuto with Human path's powers ).

The above would justify why Kishi nerfed both Madara and Obito's Rin'negan abilities without using plot as a general excuse

[EMS]

it will be nice to see sasuke coming to the battlefield but i don't see this happening and this is why..
sasuke hasn't make his mind about what 's a shinobi/village/clan, what were those feeling that itachi got for konoha after being in a life of misery and still until the end, itachi kept being itachi of the leaf...sasuke want to know the true since the beggining and sasuke wants to knows everything and his own decision by himself and at least this time, sasuke won't be use by itachi,orochimaru and tobi..
this is why sasuke asked oro to take him to this "human that knows everything", i doubt this human is fucking obito and madara it could be possible but he wasn't alive at the time of the uchiha clan massacre oh well his will was alive(black zetsu)..
orochimaru don't want to take part of this war that was started by someone else but if they show to the battlefield i doubt orochimaru will stay still while alot of his enemies are wide open and if madara is the human that knows everything, madara will still will lie to sasuke and try to use sasuke to take down naruto... but sasuke sounds more smart than those time with itachi,oro and tobi's lies so it doesn't look that he will fall for madara;s or obito's lie instead sasuke will love to kill obito for his fucking lies about tobi not being the one of attacking konoha and many more lies that he came up while acting as tobi..
this is one of the few reason at don't see sasuke getting to the batlefield yet until he knows the true since the start...

i forgot about kabuto, he will make his come back but it's clear if he still going to follow orochimaru and if knows that he came back or this izanami will make him turn good.

[UchihaUchiha]

Plz kishi kill away the entire alliance to restore your honour! tobi is obito ; still cant believe it

[Super Angillis]

Not sure if Sasuke is going to come back for this fight or not. I'd give it much better odds if we'd seen where Sasuke is going before this. I think Sasuke will be the last fight of the Manga, but the question is will he fight alongside Naruto before that.

[ninjabot]

Maybe Rin'negans wielders get one jutsu at a time, and it takes them time, training and whatever for them to unlock new powers.
From what we see, newbies Rin'negan users seems to be proficent with only one power ( maybe inspired by their personality, or whatever ) :
Nagato, when he blacked out, clearly used Shinra Tensei, and seemed generally more proficent with the powers of Deva Realm than any other. Madara showed mastery of Preta Path, while Obito showed mastery over Gedo path ( even though he threatened Kabuto with Human path's powers ).

The above would justify why Kishi nerfed both Madara and Obito's Rin'negan abilities without using plot as a general excuse

I'm still of the opinion that it works the same as every other Doujutsu: you only get new abilities from pushing your body to the limit in a near-death experience (explains why Madara didn't get his Rinnegan at all until he died, because he wasn't getting in any near-death fights after taking DNA from Hashirama). Nagato's first ability came from him being attacked by the one fodder guy. Sasuke's Amaterasu and all his Sharingan variants came from him fearing for his (and those of his allies') lives.

Nagato had access to every Rinnegan ability because he was the only Rinnegan user actually fighting over a long period of time with his and thus, had a chance to access these other abilities. Madara likely studied up on Rikudou Sennin's abilities via legends and whatnot. Then he passed his knowledge to Obito.

IMO.

[Alterno]

@Hakuteiken and @marshall313

While I respect your opinions, the manga clearly states that the reason Minato sealead the Kyuubi inside of Naruto, was that no one could ever face Obito without a special set of abilities.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v47/c440/8.html


Anyway I think if we watch everything Obito have done, only people with a special set of abilities or with a really good especial abilities would have a shot a him. True Kakashi has the Sharingan too, but we know that having the sharingan, doesn't really make you an Uchiha or allows you to excersice complete control over doutjutsu or give you an edge over a natural Sharingan user (ex. Danzou vs Sasuke).

[Jessie]

I much rather see what a Kyuubi powered K10 can do than to change to Sasuke. Which will only seem dull in comparison.

Sasuke had a lot of screentime this year. While the K11 were gone for most of the year. So it is only fair that they finally get their chance to shine after losing a member. Sasuke and his teenage angst can wait.

[ninjabot]

It's "only fair" that bit players in the story get an equal amount of screen time to a main character?

Hm. Interesting way of seeing it. I missed the rookies aswell, but now that the coolest one is dead the only one I could care to see fight is Lee. That said, Naruto boosting them all with Kurama's chakra quite literally means nothing more than they can keep attacking without getting tired. You're essentially saying that seeing the rookies use their same abilities to exhaustion, then get re-powered up by Kurama only to do the same thing is more interesting than finding out who "the human who knows everything" is?

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

EDIT: Actually, I completely forgot about Shikkaku's plan. There actually could be something interesting coming soon. Not Sasuke interesting but it's something.

[so6pww]

(With all the respect you deserve)...

That last paragraph you wrote pretty much shows that you are forgetting a few things that have happened in this manga, to no say a total lack of knowledge of story so far. Let's puts things in the right perspective:

1. Obito's abilities is what motivated Minato to seal the Kyuubi inside of his Son. He knew that to defeat someone with Obito's skilll set a special power would be needed.

This is a misinterpretation of the manga. Minato did know that Obito was dangerous, but he particularly sealed Kyuubi because Obito's ideology was dangerous and a threat. The reason wasn't his skills, but what he planned to do. Obito's parting words were the motivation for Naruto to become Jinchuriki. Minato aimed at stopping the destruction. Later, it was revealed that the true author of this ideology is Madara. This was also the reason the mask was used, that is to show that it is an ideology rather than a person. Besides, you know that when the battle came, NAruto was matched with Madara, not Obito. This happened because Obito himself is no match for full powered BM Naruto, and because Obito is just a pawn. Currently, Madara is just letting him expose his weakness, and Obito will be defeated without a single fight.

2. Obito would not be dead or incapacitated without the Juubi, actually two shinobi were (Kakashi and Naruto) and one of them needed to have the same ability as him (Kamui), in other to even hit the guy. And remember that Kakashi was pretty much done without Kyuubi's help http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c609/10.html
3. He have not used Rinnengan Techniques, except for Gedou Mazou summoning.

Obito would be dead if Naruto and Kakashi wanted. The minute they discovered his secret and Kakashi unlocked the same power, Obito was done for it, and was saved by Juubi's revival. THe SA has full intel on him, and he will not last a single minute in a fight. How can you prove that he has all the Rinnegan power if he never used the others. How can you even prove that Madara has all the Rinnegan power? You are speculating, that's all.

Whether you want or not, they will be done as soon as they loose the Juubi.

Some corrections. It wasn't "whoever was behind", Minato gave Naruto the Kyuubi to specifically counter the masked man, Obito. Obito was the one he believed was a threat to the world. So the "destined" fight is not Madara+Obito vs Naruto+Allied Army, but Obito vs Naruto before things got shoehorned into the current mess.

And as for powers, it's not like there's anyone around that is measuring up to the likes of Madara. Hardly the current standard.

Again, Minato did not even see Obito's face. The mask man represented an ideology that would cause world destruction and that is why Minato sealed Kyuubi. Failing to see that Madara is the person Naruto has to fight is a reading problem. Naruto had Kyuubi to save the world from whatever the mask man was planning, and it was revealed that stopping this mean Naruto+Kyuubi+his friend will stop Obito+Juubi+whoever is with him.

Speaking of power, we will see who is truly the strongest when the fight will occur. You already know my opinion on this, and I will not start another discussion.



=======================================================
You should only note that Sasuke is irrelevant to the current plot, and disregarding this fact will lead to a chain of disappointment. There is a simple reason for that:

Sasuke's story has nothing to do with the world itself. It is a leaf-viallage story. If Sasuke has any grudge against someone, this grudge will be treated separately from the current arc, and if Kishi fails to see that, he will give more reason for the fan to say he is a bad writer - I mean fans with reasonable analysis, not those who are fanboys of some characters. Thus I don't consider anything out of the canon material such as what Kishi said in a conference. Kishi will do a better job if he create a closing arc focused on Konoha's dirty laundry cleaning that involves all the people who have a grudge against Konoha and those who have decided to defend it. It will give him time to make Naruto the Hokage after the world while showing Sasuke's meeting with whoever he is looking for. Note also that only about 10 minutes has passed since Sasuke left the war site. This is not sufficient to meet the man who know everything, then do a training, and come back.

Kishi cannot show Sasuke right now because not only he has no place in the current plot, but showing what he is doing means off-screen progress of the war. Bringing him on the battlefield means flashback.

[enmymiguel]

OMG kishi is taking soo long to come up with some crazy power for sasuke it not even funny,
i mean who tell you to make naruto a unstoppable beast.
madara and tobi should team up and beat naruto. cause naruto always fight 2 vs 1. i mean the fox count as 1 plus naruto= 2.
plus since 9 tails hear everything around naruto and he can see everything.
i wonder what happen when naruto is having sex,lol