Naruto 615 Discussion

[Rikudou King]

To defeat someone with obito's skills?

I think the first reason on why minato sealed kurama to his son is kushina. So for saying that obito's abilities is what motivated minato to seal the kyubi to his son isn't right.

Minato didn't sacrificed his life just to defeat obito. But he sacrificed his life for kushina to see the grown up naruto. It sounds to me that for you, obito's skills/abilities is too much for minato to handle. But from what the manga has shown, it wasn't the case. Minato did sacrificed his life by using the shiki fuin just for kushina, and not for obito's abilities.

Minato threw his strongest attack at Obito and did minor damage. That's ignoring all the abilities we now know Obito really possesses, like Izanagi.

Minato outline his reasons for sealing the Kyuubi, which was directly to counter Obito's eventual return. Minato wouldn't have needed to sacrifice his life or make Naruto into a Jinchuuriki just to leave a piece of Kushina behind, nor would there have been a point in doing so.

Again, Minato did not even see Obito's face. The mask man represented an ideology that would cause world destruction and that is why Minato sealed Kyuubi. Failing to see that Madara is the person Naruto has to fight is a reading problem. Naruto had Kyuubi to save the world from whatever the mask man was planning, and it was revealed that stopping this mean Naruto+Kyuubi+his friend will stop Obito+Juubi+whoever is with him.

Speaking of power, we will see who is truly the strongest when the fight will occur. You already know my opinion on this, and I will not start another discussion.

Minato didn't need to see Obito's face to know he was the same person. And what ideology? To rule the world? Aside from Minato not having a clue about what Obito or Madara were truly after, there was nothing during that initial event to imply there was someone greater behind Obito. Both then and when Minato reappeared to aid Naruto, he specifically mentioned Obito, not some imaginary ideology. Fact remains, Minato had no idea about Madara and he specifically did it for Obito.

We've already seen said fights happen. Naruto has thrown his strongest at both Obito and Madara and they both have brushed it off like nothing. The whole current set-up pretty much make it clear they're strongest, else Naruto wouldn't need an entire army to help and would have actually done some damage by now.

You should only note that Sasuke is irrelevant to the current plot, and disregarding this fact will lead to a chain of disappointment. There is a simple reason for that:

Sasuke's story has nothing to do with the world itself. It is a leaf-viallage story. If Sasuke has any grudge against someone, this grudge will be treated separately from the current arc, and if Kishi fails to see that, he will give more reason for the fan to say he is a bad writer - I mean fans with reasonable analysis, not those who are fanboys of some characters. Thus I don't consider anything out of the canon material such as what Kishi said in a conference. Kishi will do a better job if he create a closing arc focused on Konoha's dirty laundry cleaning that involves all the people who have a grudge against Konoha and those who have decided to defend it. It will give him time to make Naruto the Hokage after the world while showing Sasuke's meeting with whoever he is looking for. Note also that only about 10 minutes has passed since Sasuke left the war site. This is not sufficient to meet the man who know everything, then do a training, and come back.

Kishi cannot show Sasuke right now because not only he has no place in the current plot, but showing what he is doing means off-screen progress of the war. Bringing him on the battlefield means flashback.

He's hardly irrelevant. Who's storyline was it that put this whole war into motion? Who's storyline was it that dealt with Kabuto, mastermind of the Edo Tensei and freed the Allied Forces from the trouble of the Edo summons? It's ridiculous to claim that Sasuke is irrelevant when he's been such a major part of current events. Heck, we have already gotten several moments dealing with side events, so I fail to see why you would believe that it couldn't happen again, especially when the person who Sasuke's gonna see supposedly knows everything. That sounds like the prefect dues ex to deal with the invincible Madara.

[number12michael]

Minato threw his strongest attack at Obito and did minor damage. That's ignoring all the abilities we now know Obito really possesses, like Izanagi.

Minato outline his reasons for sealing the Kyuubi, which was directly to counter Obito's eventual return. Minato wouldn't have needed to sacrifice his life or make Naruto into a Jinchuuriki just to leave a piece of Kushina behind, nor would there have been a point in doing so.

Minato didn't need to see Obito's face to know he was the same person. And what ideology? To rule the world? Aside from Minato not having a clue about what Obito or Madara were truly after, there was nothing during that initial event to imply there was someone greater behind Obito. Both then and when Minato reappeared to aid Naruto, he specifically mentioned Obito, not some imaginary ideology. Fact remains, Minato had no idea about Madara and he specifically did it for Obito.

We've already seen said fights happen. Naruto has thrown his strongest at both Obito and Madara and they both have brushed it off like nothing. The whole current set-up pretty much make it clear they're strongest, else Naruto wouldn't need an entire army to help and would have actually done some damage by now.

He's hardly irrelevant. Who's storyline was it that put this whole war into motion? Who's storyline was it that dealt with Kabuto, mastermind of the Edo Tensei and freed the Allied Forces from the trouble of the Edo summons? It's ridiculous to claim that Sasuke is irrelevant when he's been such a major part of current events. Heck, we have already gotten several moments dealing with side events, so I fail to see why you would believe that it couldn't happen again, especially when the person who Sasuke's gonna see supposedly knows everything. That sounds like the prefect dues ex to deal with the invincible Madara.

ummm sasuke did shit to stop ET it was Itachi who found out how to stop it and it was itachi who knew of Izanami and could use it properly. you like everyone in the story give sasuke credit for things he has never done(like how he is credited with killing zabuza and Deidara and he never kill them infact he never even inflicted mortal wounds on them) and even his defeat of Orochimaru was moot as oro was weakened , could not use his arms and was not really killed in the first place

[Rikudou King]

... When did I ever claim that it was Sasuke who stopped them? All I stated was that they were dealt with during his part of the storyline, to counter the argument that Sasuke is irrelevant to the current storyline. Point is, returning back to whatever Sasuke and co are doing can easily be tied into the situation with Madara.

[number12michael]

... When did I ever claim that it was Sasuke who stopped them? All I stated was that they were dealt with during his part of the storyline, to counter the argument that Sasuke is irrelevant to the current storyline. Point is, returning back to whatever Sasuke and co are doing can easily be tied into the situation with Madara.

yeah it can, and personally i cant wait to get back to seeing orochimaru again....i miss his face lol

[badluckartist]

Minato sealed the kyuubi into Naruto because of the ideology Tobi and Madara both represent. It's Naruto's 'destiny' to stop them (and anybody else who adopts said ideology, presumably), according to Minato. All signs point to Sasuke picking up the banner after Tobi and Madara fall though. Not because of any speculated motivations on Sasuke, but because the plot mandates their fight at some point and this is pretty much the only way to do it.

[marshall313]

@Hakuteiken and @marshall313

While I respect your opinions, the manga clearly states that the reason Minato sealead the Kyuubi inside of Naruto, was that no one could ever face Obito without a special set of abilities.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v47/c440/8.html


Anyway I think if we watch everything Obito have done, only people with a special set of abilities or with a really good especial abilities would have a shot a him. True Kakashi has the Sharingan too, but we know that having the sharingan, doesn't really make you an Uchiha or allows you to excersice complete control over doutjutsu or give you an edge over a natural Sharingan user (ex. Danzou vs Sasuke).

But from the actual scene itself, minato did sacrificed his life for kushina, naruto and konoha. Tobi's abilities doesn't have any threat to minato at all. Tobi did escaped from minato.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c503/15.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c503/16.html


http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c503/17.html


http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c503/18.html

It wasn't because of tobi's abilities, but rather to his ideology. Minato thought that tobi will be the one who will bring catastrophy to the ninja world. And t'was naruto who will stop him and clear the future.

The manga clearly shown the reasons why minato sealed the kyubi to naruto.

1. Minato knew kushina is dying.
2. The destined child ''stuff'' of jiraiya.
3. For konoha
4. To preserved the balanced between the bijuus.
5. tobi's ideology and as a catastrophy of the ninja world.
6. For naruto to have the power to clear the future as a savior.

And with this,

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c504/3.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c504/4.html

It's pretty much close the deal.

Minato did sacrificed his life and sealed the kyubi for naruto and kushina's sake.

[llamapie]

So all this discussion about Minato's intentions had me think back and still wonder how the hell Obito would have the balls let alone the attitude to fight his master. And then KILL HIS wife and try and kill his kid? Really what the hell? Rin dying really sent him over the deep end. For once I actually want talk-no-jutsu to work. Would be nice seeing Obito realize how wrong he's gotten.

Slightly related since its confirmed that Tobi is Obito it brought the whole Master vs. Student theme full circle.

Sarutobi vs. Oro
Jiraya vs. Nagato
Minato vs. Obito
Kakashi vs. Sasuke
Naruto vs. Konohamaru(?)

The inevitable conclusion is that Konohamaru is the manga's true villain. Nothing else makes sense.

I mean think about it.
Konohamaru comes flying in, uses sexy no jutsu to make Hashirama make out with his brother Tobirama - thus snaring Madara into a love spiral while he magically lands a micro-rasengan on Tobi - then he eats the Juubi and turns into God and destroys the alliance. YA SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE.

[EMS]

yeah it can, and personally i cant wait to get back to seeing orochimaru again....i miss his face lol

Hopefully, kishi isn't going to get rid of orochimaru, the same way that he did the last two times...
Mean if orochimaru came back if for something, good and so far oro is taking sasuke to meet ". The human that knows everything"...

[shafagh]

hehe ...

[kingplaya(minato)]

Hold on a minute...if obito/nagato can resurrect a long dead madara...why can't obito give his life 2 bring back a long dead rin...if he truly loves her?

[Marche]

In this post I will write only of the reaction of the rookies and of the others ninjas to the death of Neji, I commented on how they have reacted to the death of Neji in this chapter, and even of what they will do in the next few chapters.
Of what happened between Naruto and Hinata and also those of Obito and Madara I will write about it in others posts.
I read several users complains about this chapter, to tell you the truth even if obviously I accept it I can't really understid it.
Infact I really liked this chapter, this is my second favorite chapter, it is only below the chapter about Jiraiya's death, it is even better of the chapter in which Hinata confessed her love to Naruto against Pain.

The only flaw of this chapter is that Kishimoto does not showed the reaction of the team Gai to the death of Neji, but maybe counting that in this chapter we have seen only the reactions of all the rookie to the death of Neji (although in reality Kishi showed the reaction of others members of the clan Hyuuga and of others ninjas of Konoha), I think that in the next chapter is possible that we will see their thoughts about Neji, particularly of Rock Lee and Gai (Ten Ten is really an unimportant character, even if in this war she did more than Sakura) the death of Neji is possible that the team Gai, especially Gai and Lee the same we will see in the next chapter.
Infact there is the possibility that before going to their battle stations (I think that they will fight against Madara), Gai and Rock Lee will go near to Neji's body and then they will devote a thought to Neji.

I don't think that we will see a real flashback, because as I said in the topic of the previous chapter, I think that all the flashbacks will be postponed at the end of the battle (I really would like if at the end of the war will be made a great cemetry where placed all the dead, and then at the centre of it will be created a giant stone and in with will be written all the name of the victims, just like the stone in Konoha in which is written even the name of Obito).
I think it will be most likely that they will think something likr “I will make them pay for it”/”We will revenge you”.
I don't think infact it is a coincidence that the only one who has thought of Neji has been Hiashi, the only one that besides Naruto and Hinata saw the death of Neji in the chapter 614 (although it was highly probable, almost certain I really liked that he apologized to his brother to be left to die Neji.

Anyways I believe that in the next chapter Naruto and Hinata will go to their battle positions, according to the instructions of Shikaku, and then all the ninja of the three clan Yamanaka, Akimichi and Naara will follow them, while the others ninjas of the alliance will be healed and then they will fight Madara and Obito.
Infact I think that for some time, at least until the next transformation, the 3 clans reloaded from the chakra of Kurama will be able stop the Juubi, meanwhile Madara and Obito will decide to decimate the alliance themselves, even counting that they have not the perfect control over the Juubi yet.
I also believe that after few chapters since Madara and Obito took to the field will arrive the 5 kages, even Tsunade will arrive.
I don't know if they attack the Juubi while it is not able to move or if they will split, infact I believe that the Mizukage, Gaara and Oonoki will go against Obito, while Tsunade and the Raikage will fight Madara.

I was forgetting to write that even if I know it's unlikely I think that there is the possibility that Sakura after seeing the death of Neji and even of how Hinata gave comfort and courage to Naruto could decides to do something, to react, to be helpful, at least this is what I thought seeing her expression in this picture http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/26074227/11.
In truth I think it’s most likely that this will happen when Sasuke will came (if this moment will even arrive).

[EMS]

Hold on a minute...if obito/nagato can resurrect a long dead madara...why can't obito give his life 2 bring back a long dead rin...if he truly loves her?

because obito was afraid of kakashi bangging rin instead of him...

[kingplaya(minato)]

@chilibun...i can understand where u coming from but the question obito asks now has no one "correct answer" and the ones who have attempted 2 answer it have been negative(nagato, madara and obito)
and so far only two/3 tried changing the world in a positive way and were left frustrated(hanzou, jiraiya and... young nagato)
kishi most likely doesnt have an answer in words or a statement(and if he did, it wouldn't satisfy any1)...only action is the way forward(more explanations soon)

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------

By action, it seems naruto is in a situation where preparation meets opportunity(his declaration of finding peace in this ninja world and a war which makes the ninjas willing to change)...right now, the alliance just needs some1 to exploit this never before..well, alliance so that it can sustain the goodwill of ninjas working together and naruto is their man..
the previous people who wanted to unite ninjas never had this opportunity(the war) and without which i am 90% certain naruto would have ended up as frustrated as they did...
if u want naruto to have a specific answer for all those who feel the pain of losing their loved ones...well, his answers with action(not killing nagato) and now it's up to them to also do as he did..

[Junior]

hehe ...

Would've gotten me to lul harder if that was Aizen instead of Madara.

The chapter was far from amazing to me. Naruto's convictions are strengthened AGAIN but we should all know this wont last for long.

[Hakuteiken]

Hold on a minute...if obito/nagato can resurrect a long dead madara...why can't obito give his life 2 bring back a long dead rin...if he truly loves her?

Because you probably need the person's body to be the vessel for the resurrected soul.
Oh wait, then, how was Madara going to resurrected? His body was already in Orochimaru / Kabuto's possession.
Hmm..