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Thread: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

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    The Original 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    One theory could be, simply being a captain they had access to confidential information. However, I was wondering if they went to King's realm in person? The discussion between Urahara and Aizen at the end of HM arc was intriguing:

    Chapter 421 Panel 21

    Chapter 421 Panel 22

    Especially, in the Panel 22 Urahara said "I see, so you've seen it". I was under the impression that every captain might have seen Soul King. The way Urahara said it, implies otherwise. I mean, if every captain has seen SK, Urahra would not be saying such a thing.

    First agenda of discussion, have these two been to Soul King Palace?

    If they did, what could be the reason?

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Before FKT battles even started, Matsumoto was telling something about Soul King to Orihime and mentioned that neither herself nor Hitsugaya saw the King in person. That rules out a possible tradition of every captain getting to see the Soul King.

    It first looks like Urahara might have been to the palace just because of his scientific works, but it looks like he rather modeled his works after the palace, so, I can't really see why they might permit him to do so in the first place. Plus, his captaincy hadn't even made it to a decade by the time he was banished from SS, which would normally raise a question of his trustworthiness.
    Aizen's case is a lot more difficult to judge. Nothing about his possible accomplishments were noted in the series. If these two were really influenced by something they say saw in the palace to create Hogyoku, then it'd mean Aizen saw Soul King when he was a vice-captain at best. Plus, Urahara would know of him meeting the Soul King when he was still in SS, so, Aizen couldn't possibly meet Soul King before he created his Hogyoku.
    At least, I was able to rule out a possible path.

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    Re: [FEATURED] Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    What about the maggot's nest didnt urahara have like some major role with the jail?
    Spoiler show

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    Re: [FEATURED] Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    It's simple, and explained in the chapter. Urahara created the Hogyoku and he met the SK because it was something that the SK recognized as an important thing. When Aizen combined his with Urahara's it may have given him memories of what Urahara saw/knew. Or he may have even met the SK when he created his and that's why he knew he had to create a Key inside of himself to overthrow the SK.

    This would also explain Ichigo's dad and him knowing of the FGT and why Aizen was so interested in him. No other shinigami has ever done that except Ichigo's dad and if it was that long ago then that's why nobody recognizes him (Since the Zero division is so old the SK keeps them immortal.)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    I would think that maybe in Urahara's case, they saw him as a potential candidate for a member of the Royal Guard due to his inventions. However for some reasons, probably involving his backstory and how he met Yoruichi or because he felt he could better help the world where he was, he declined. While scouting him, they let him meet the Soul King (Yohohohoho!) in person so the Soul King could size him up. Far-fetched, but still possible. But that wouldn't explain Aizen because, as we know, Aizen had hidden a good amount of his power and intellect from the SS, so I don't think he was made a candidate, which leads to my other theory.

    Aizen and Urahara have realized/"saw" the true nature of the Spirit King because of their superior intellect. At some point in their life time, they must have began questioning their reality and the purpose of the Soul King. Both, being as smart as they are, researched and researched to find the answer. From the history of SS to the nature of souls, and came to the conclusion that the SK is not what he says he is. Though they reached the same conclusion, each felt differently on the issue. Urahara may have seen a larger picture, and while he probably doesn't agree with the nature of the King (whatever it is) he realizes that it is integral to the survival of the world so he let it be. Aizen, on the other hand, didn't see it that way. Whatever he concluded, he felt that he needed to kill the SK and take his place, to the point of orchestrating a grand plan that spanned over a century.

    Those two (and possibly Mayuri) are the only ones who possess the knowledge and means to actually figure out the true inner working of the Spirit World.

    My reasoning for how Urahara got the "White-Bone Pond" water is because of his history with Yoruichi. While we don't know the purpose of the Nobles in SS, I do believe that they have a connection with the Soul King.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekoashide View Post
    It's simple, and explained in the chapter. Urahara created the Hogyoku and he met the SK because it was something that the SK recognized as an important thing. When Aizen combined his with Urahara's it may have given him memories of what Urahara saw/knew. Or he may have even met the SK when he created his and that's why he knew he had to create a Key inside of himself to overthrow the SK.
    Aizen invented the Hogyoku first.
    Last edited by eefrit; December 19, 2012 at 09:27 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    i think...urahara could have something to do with maggots nest ... specially mayuri...what if urahara just like ichigo saved soul society from something /someone (mayuri??) ... he could have been a unique shinigami just like ichigo and would have been called by the spirit king (like ichigo)...but he was not made royal guard coz he didnt create something specific...same case with aizen

    other possibility i think of is that aizen and urahara both went there to repair their zans or to get healed coz due to some reason someone fucked them up real bad(like renji,byakuya,rukia)...as we can see now that even low ranker shinigami like vice captains can go to the kings realm under certain circumstances... the reason aizens zan went so crazy and strong was that he at some point of time was helped by Oetsu to reforge his zan... he learned how to actually communicate with his zan like ichigo and renji will now...this could also explain aizen getting too much stronger than other shinigamis and in a short amount of time...this could also apply to urahara but we still dont know his zans full potential...

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by dex View Post
    as we can see now that even low ranker shinigami like vice captains c
    Low ranker? Vice captain is like... second highest rank...?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member dex's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Low ranker? Vice captain is like... second highest rank...?
    yea vice captain is low rank to visit kings realm...i guess its pretty simple to understand...

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Moderator message by: hakuteiken
    PM each other if you want to start an argument about anything personal. Please refrain from doing so in threads that are open to discussion for everyone.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    well both men are students, and men of science, both men were very curious and inventive and i imagine both had their means of coming up with information and evidence to feed their curiosity. they were both very resourceful, and both geniuses

    so its not that surprising to me that they both obtained a vast amount of info about the higher ups including the soul king

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    they saw it throughout the hougyoku. in fact aizen saw him after stealing the hougyoku from rukia,and this confirms my hypothesis. he didn't even know about the royal guards when he was a vice-captain,there's no way he has been there!

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Urahara has almost certainly been there given the fact many of his inventions and research are based upon things the Royal Guards have made.

    IMO, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Aizen has a telepathic Bankai allowing him to read the thoughts of others without their knowledge. This would explain how he knew so much about so many things.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Urahara has almost certainly been there given the fact many of his inventions and research are based upon things the Royal Guards have made.
    The thing is, he had to be there in the first place to make something based upon things RG made. He couldn't be there because he made those things, but he made those things because he was there.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Well, it's actually because of their innovations that the RG were recognised and promoted to Zero Division. So they would have developed their respective technologies in SS before ever relocating to the Royal Realm. So thinking about it, Urahara doesn't actually need to have ever left SS to have studied ZD's creations. Kirinji's healing methods were passed on to Unohana, Hikifune's Mod Soul technology is a commonly used tool by Shinigami and Nimaiya's Asauchi are given to every single recruit. It's all readily available in Seireitei.

    That still doesn't answer the question of how he and Aizen saw the Reiou though...
    Last edited by NoOneInParticular; January 24, 2013 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Well, it's actually because of their innovations that the RG were recognised and promoted to Zero Division. So they would have developed their respective technologies in SS before ever relocating to the Royal Realm. So thinking about it, Urahara doesn't actually need to have ever left SS to have studied ZD's creations. Kirinji's healing methods were passed on to Unohana, Hikifune's Mod Soul technology is a commonly used tool by Shinigami and Nimaiya's Asauchi are given to every single recruit. It's all readily available in Seireitei.
    Kirinji's healing techniques*. We NEVER saw Blood Pond Hell or Hot Spring in SS. But we DID see it in Urahara's training space.
    Mod Souls were banned in SS, and further experiments wouldn't be allowed. He could only grasp a concept of it. Also he made tons of similar things. What is Ururu, exactly?
    About Nimaya... we saw ALL Asauchi MATERIALIZED. How? They just got into that hole. And Urahara's tool to materialize Zanpakuto worked similar. I wouldn't be surprised, if somewhere near Ichigo and Renji there was a wall or something, in which those Asauchis are put.
    He can create his own Kidos. Well, Kidos are pretty common for Shinigamis and had to be somehow invented. Utilizing Reiatsu to shoot attacks. Sounds like a way to fight before Zanpakutos. But is it his, or his Zanpakuto ability?
    Still not enough about Shutara, though.

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