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Thread: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Kirinji's healing techniques*. We NEVER saw Blood Pond Hell or Hot Spring in SS. But we DID see it in Urahara's training space.
    Yes, but what I mean is that Kirinji would have devised that technology whilst he was still in SS and that since it was regarded as a historical achievement, it must be in use in at least some form in SS. Plus, we don't know how old Urahara is or when Kirinji moved to the Royal Realm, so Urahara could have studied the pools whilst they were still in SS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Mod Souls were banned in SS, and further experiments wouldn't be allowed. He could only grasp a concept of it. Also he made tons of similar things. What is Ururu, exactly?
    Yeah, but Hikifune and Urahara were both in the Gotei 13 together before she got promoted. He likely was around to witness the creation of the Mod Soul, and would have had plenty of time to study them before they were illegalised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    About Nimaya... we saw ALL Asauchi MATERIALIZED. How? They just got into that hole. And Urahara's tool to materialize Zanpakuto worked similar. I wouldn't be surprised, if somewhere near Ichigo and Renji there was a wall or something, in which those Asauchis are put.
    Asauchi (the blades) are handed out to everyone. For Urahara to study them would be easy. As for actually materialising the spirit, why does Urahara need to have studies materialised Asauchi? It seems more logical that he would have needed to study materialised Zanpakuto, which any Bankai wielder can do. I don't see how he even needs to have studied the pit to develop the technology to forcibly manifest a Zan spirit. We don't even know that the Zanpakuto and Asauchi walking around Phoenix Palace were forced out, or if that's their natural form and Nimaiya is the one who forces them inside blades. Now if Nimaiya says Urahara studied the pit, fine, but right now there's no reason to assume he ever needed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    He can create his own Kidos. Well, Kidos are pretty common for Shinigamis and had to be somehow invented. Utilizing Reiatsu to shoot attacks. Sounds like a way to fight before Zanpakutos. But is it his, or his Zanpakuto ability?
    Still not enough about Shutara, though.
    It could be argued that he'd only need an extensive knowledge of how Kidou work to develop a new one. Yoruichi and Soifon developed Shunko by manipulating Kido IIRC. But yes, who knows how he did that?

    But I'm not denying the possibility of him having visited the Royal Realm, all I'm saying is that the things the Royal Guard created are regarded as major contributions to Soul Society, which they wouldn't be if they weren't of use to SS. If SS is using them, they exist in some form there, so Urahara could have studied them without going to the Royal Guard's various palaces.

    Having said that, there is still the issue of him and Aizen having apparently witnessed the Soul King himself, though it's not like they implicitly said they did. Urahara said they saw "it". "It" could be anything, a book or article describing the nature of the Soul King or depicting him. So whether either of them actually visited the Royal Realm is still debatable.

  2. #17
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Quote:
    Asauchi (the blades) are handed out to everyone. For Urahara to study them would be easy. As for actually materialising the spirit, why does Urahara need to have studies materialised Asauchi? It seems more logical that he would have needed to study materialised Zanpakuto, which any Bankai wielder can do. I don't see how he even needs to have studied the pit to develop the technology to forcibly manifest a Zan spirit. We don't even know that the Zanpakuto and Asauchi walking around Phoenix Palace were forced out, or if that's their natural form and Nimaiya is the one who forces them inside blades. Now if Nimaiya says Urahara studied the pit, fine, but right now there's no reason to assume he ever needed to.
    It doesn't matter if they were Zanpakutos or Asauchis. Still they're materialised. It seems suspicious enough for me, considering authout showed us how Urahara knows quite a lot about RG and SK.

    Well, he could as well go there because of Hogyoku, SK considered Hogyoku VERY useful, made him go to SP, then he saw all that and made it. I don't think copycating BEFORE going to SP would allow him there and be relevant to the story. But we'll see soon enough, I hope.

    PS. With the rest I can't really argue, since it is pure opinion and speculation, and we can't say for sure. We both wrote our points, it's up to people reading these, what they'd believe.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    What is the place called again? Halls of Pure Souls, or something along those lines? The place where Unuhana and Hitsugaya encountered Aizen and Gin for the first time in the SS arc, below Central 46.

    Why exactly is this place so forbidden? Did we never get an explanation for this place? and exactly what purpose could it serve?
    What was Aizen doing down there? Was it purely to "hide", or did he actually use the place for something else entirely?

    What makes me wonder is that it's so forbidden to go there, could it hold information on the Soul King?
    If that is the case, then this could possibly lead to an explanation on what Aizen knows about the Soul King, hell, he could have gone down there a hundred years back with his abilities, disguising himself to get past central 46 without killing them, until when he actually needed to take command.

    This is just another theory, but I find it curious that the place is forbidden for anyone and below Central 46, the highest governance in SS.
    Urahara on the other hand I find more likely to have been visiting the Soul King, on the fact that the Royal Guard seems to know him on first name terms, and the fact that they seemed to have allowed him to study the Royal Realm.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member kisuke u.'s Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    I think both has seen the SK.
    The diratio archive has crucial information including the ouken so it’s not unlikely if Aizen had some assistance from there about the SK. Urahara is a close (childhood)friend of Youroichi and Tessai. Youroichi was the head of shihoin clan and of the stealth force. I wouldn’t be surprise if he had been there because of her. If I am not mistaken, shihoin clan is on the top among the noble’s. In TBTP, the uniform Tessai and Hachi were wearing had the symbol of zero div, so were they from there? And Urahara’s connection with the RG is apparent.

    ---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    What is the place called again? Halls of Pure Souls, or something along those lines? The place where Unuhana and Hitsugaya encountered Aizen and Gin for the first time in the SS arc, below Central 46.

    Why exactly is this place so forbidden? Did we never get an explanation for this place? and exactly what purpose could it serve?
    What was Aizen doing down there? Was it purely to "hide", or did he actually use the place for something else entirely?

    What makes me wonder is that it's so forbidden to go there, could it hold information on the Soul King?
    If that is the case, then this could possibly lead to an explanation on what Aizen knows about the Soul King, hell, he could have gone down there a hundred years back with his abilities, disguising himself to get past central 46 without killing them, until when he actually needed to take command.

    This is just another theory, but I find it curious that the place is forbidden for anyone and below Central 46, the highest governance in SS.
    Urahara on the other hand I find more likely to have been visiting the Soul King, on the fact that the Royal Guard seems to know him on first name terms, and the fact that they seemed to have allowed him to study the Royal Realm.
    Sejotokiyorin.
    This place is declared off limits in case of emergency. Where Aizen and Unohana encountered, situated the chambers of the member of central 46. If I recall, he had been there to discover the method of taking out the hogyoku from a spirit being.


    we all have our journeys to make.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Having said that, there is still the issue of him and Aizen having apparently witnessed the Soul King himself, though it's not like they implicitly said they did. Urahara said they saw "it". "It" could be anything, a book or article describing the nature of the Soul King or depicting him. So whether either of them actually visited the Royal Realm is still debatable.
    I agree with you. Researching the Asauchi and Mod Souls wouldn't have been difficult to in SS. As for the healing sauna, depending on his age, it is possible that he was around at the same time as Kirinji [in Soul Society]. If I recall correctly, he grew up with Yoruichi and Tessai. Thus, he must be close in age to both of them. At one point, Tessai said that he hadn't heard the term 'Quincy' in over 200 years. So all three of them are rather old. As of yet, there is no indication that he's actually been to the Royal Palace. On the other hand, we know that parts of his research were conducted in SS. Based on the timeline we have at our disposal, there wouldn't have been an opportunity for him to go to the Royal Palace post-TRTP arc, so he must have seen Hikifune's research in SS.

    The thing that intrigues me, however, is the Hogyoku. I am sure that its connected to the Soul King. My best guess as of now is that the Hogyoku contains a fraction of the Soul King's power, or perhaps this "special reiatsu" that is only found in the Royal Realm. Perhaps they both 'saw' something related to the SK through the Hogyoku during their research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    It doesn't matter if they were Zanpakutos or Asauchis. Still they're materialised. It seems suspicious enough for me, considering authout showed us how Urahara knows quite a lot about RG and SK.

    Well, he could as well go there because of Hogyoku, SK considered Hogyoku VERY useful, made him go to SP, then he saw all that and made it. I don't think copycating BEFORE going to SP would allow him there and be relevant to the story. But we'll see soon enough, I hope.

    PS. With the rest I can't really argue, since it is pure opinion and speculation, and we can't say for sure. We both wrote our points, it's up to people reading these, what they'd believe.
    I seriosuly doubt that the Hogyoku would enable Urahara to become one of the RG, since the practical applications of the Hogyoku were - and still is - pretty unknown, which I think is a prerequisite.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Kirinji's healing techniques*. We NEVER saw Blood Pond Hell or Hot Spring in SS. But we DID see it in Urahara's training space.
    Mod Souls were banned in SS, and further experiments wouldn't be allowed. He could only grasp a concept of it. Also he made tons of similar things. What is Ururu, exactly?
    About Nimaya... we saw ALL Asauchi MATERIALIZED. How? They just got into that hole. And Urahara's tool to materialize Zanpakuto worked similar. I wouldn't be surprised, if somewhere near Ichigo and Renji there was a wall or something, in which those Asauchis are put.
    He can create his own Kidos. Well, Kidos are pretty common for Shinigamis and had to be somehow invented. Utilizing Reiatsu to shoot attacks. Sounds like a way to fight before Zanpakutos. But is it his, or his Zanpakuto ability?
    Still not enough about Shutara, though.
    To add;
    - the special sword he made for ichigo to regain his powers is similar to hikifune’s food.
    - The hole at his training space for ichigo to become a SR again, same as we saw at Nimeya’s place.
    - His foot ware resembles the Osho’s one, namely ‘tengu geta’ (from bleach wiki).


    we all have our journeys to make.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    well both men are students, and men of science, both men were very curious and inventive and i imagine both had their means of coming up with information and evidence to feed their curiosity. they were both very resourceful, and both geniuses

    so its not that surprising to me that they both obtained a vast amount of info about the higher ups including the soul king
    This is pretty much what i think.I think they both came to the conclusion of what the concept of king is,with indirect observation.Thats what sandal-hat meant by "seeing" in my opinion.(at this point someone who can read the original language of the comic can help,as meanings can be lost in translation.)
    Also, we know that even captain commander whos the most loyal/aged shinigami around does not know much about the king, so its really really unlikely that any of the two had met the king by person.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    There is so little evidence for any kind of prediction right now. All we have is the comment that Urahara researched the healing hot springs but it was never said if he did this in the royal realm or when Kirinji was still in soul society(provided that was a short enough time ago). But if Urahara saw the soul king then he was probably there... But for what reason??

    Aizen is the bigger mystery, when did he get there? Maybe Kyouka Suigetsus bankai had a power that allowed him to actually break in unoticed.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    I have a feeling that the possibility of creating the hygoku(orb) granted them the ability to see RR without entering, if indeed it was something that in theory would replicate the SK himself, because if Aizen went to RR he wouldn't of thought 100k souls would help him reach RD again
    Spoiler show

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    I don't think the means actually existed for aizen to in any form enter the royal dimension on his own. The royals seem to have the ability to move between dimensions indiscriminately (seeing how ichigo was sent from the royal palace to his house) so if aizen actually saw the king it means that he was either led to him or the king (who should by all intents and purposes be able to travel dimensions as easily as the guards) himself went to aizen. Of course, if the royals are stronger than the entire gotei 13 then the king would have been safe from harm even if aizen got there alone, I don't think even he could win against the 5 of them.

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    I have a feeling that the possibility of creating the hygoku(orb) granted them the ability to see RR without entering, if indeed it was something that in theory would replicate the SK himself, because if Aizen went to RR he wouldn't of thought 100k souls would help him reach RD again
    Haha, I was thinking backwards on this! I was thinking they got the idea for the hougyoku from the royal dimension...But the hougyoku being more of a crystal ball to see visions sounds like it would be the most probable answer to this question.

    I'd bet on your theory

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    There is never been a why for Uraharas research and his creation of that thing. Was he merely experimenting like a madman? Or did he have some goal?

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    considering they are both men of science, it is highly probable that they both just dug a little too deep, and thus found out more about the soul king

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Kirinji's healing techniques*. We NEVER saw Blood Pond Hell or Hot Spring in SS. But we DID see it in Urahara's training space.
    Mod Souls were banned in SS, and further experiments wouldn't be allowed. He could only grasp a concept of it. Also he made tons of similar things. What is Ururu, exactly?
    About Nimaya... we saw ALL Asauchi MATERIALIZED. How? They just got into that hole. And Urahara's tool to materialize Zanpakuto worked similar. I wouldn't be surprised, if somewhere near Ichigo and Renji there was a wall or something, in which those Asauchis are put.
    He can create his own Kidos. Well, Kidos are pretty common for Shinigamis and had to be somehow invented. Utilizing Reiatsu to shoot attacks. Sounds like a way to fight before Zanpakutos. But is it his, or his Zanpakuto ability?
    Still not enough about Shutara, though.

    TBH incorrect.
    We saw one in the hidden cave where Yourichi and Urahara used to train when they were younger.
    The same cave where Ichigo trained to achieve his bankai. He got healed in that pond. Remember the chapter in which Yourichi undressed

    Rock Solid

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    Re: Under what circumstances Aizen and Urahara saw or knew about Soul King?

    What tenjirou said was that urahara based the pond at yoruichi's playground based on the one at the royal palace. That is not quite the same as saying that urahara made the same ponds tenjirou had though. The way it worked was ultimately different and I would argue that perhaps tenjorou's had the better long term effect even if the process was more complicated and risky. Urahara's pond did not seem to actually hurt weak people or required a towel to prevent you from having your reiatsu explode out of your head after all.

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