Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/22/14 - 9/28/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
New Reply
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

  1. #1
    ... 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Posts
    23,066
    Post Thanks / Like

    Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    I've been thinking a lot about the Juubi and what on earth Shikaku could have conjured up to stop the beast these past few days. We all know incapacitating the Juubi is highly improbable. The entity's power is landslides beyond what the Alliance can cope with, even including the Kyuubi and Hachibi's combined power. However we know that Shikaku wanted to confirm that his plan was possible by confirming with Kakashi about certain details <HERE>. Since he wanted to ask Kakashi about details, it's highly probable that one part of the plan is to take out Obito via Kamui Dimension battle. Obviously the one fighting Obito has to be Kakashi, and by forcing Obito into the Kamui Dimension, Juubi's "mind control" will likely be broken as Madara alone likely can't hold it for long. However for the battle with Obito to be possible the Alliance needs to do battle with the Juubi, and here Naruto's role obviously comes in. The only way I came up with that makes it remotely possible given the massive power difference between the Kyuubi and Juubi, is Senjutsu.

    Think about it. Why on earth would Kishi bother drawing a comparison between natural energy and the Juubi <HERE> if it holds no significance? All translations I've seen so far mention that while it's similar, the way the Juubi feels compared to "normal" natural energy is different (including aegon-rokudo's translation that's posted here on MH). However none of these translations indicate that using Juubi's power as a source of energy is impossible, they actually indicate it is possible. The fact that Naruto is able to feel the Juubi's power <HERE> proves that he's fully capable of sensing (and thus drawing in) the Juubi's power <HERE>.

    Now let's put together the build up for this theory in regards of the story:
    • The Kyuubi will possibly be fully recharged once he comes back into play. At a minimum the Kyuubi will have a significant (and necessary) amount of chakra. <HERE>
    • Naruto has once before subconsciously (and successfully) combined Sage Mode and Kyuubi Mode at a low level <HERE>.
    • To be a Sage, you need massive chakra reserves. Naturally to draw energy from the Juubi itself you need an unfathomable amount of chakra <HERE> to make a perfect balance <HERE>
    • It's popular to believe that Kyuubi can gather natural energy while Naruto fights, but this is by no means given nor proven. However the roles can be reversed, it's only natural that Kyuubi fights to begin with, and Naruto acting as a supporting role like he did previously. Thus Naruto will gather natural energy and use his and Kyuubi's combined chakra to make the balance, while Kyuubi fights.

    What the plan will accomplish if this theory is correct is:
    1) Give an immense power up to Naruto's full Bijuu Mode (limited to this time only). By making Naruto combine Sage and Bijuu Mode his power will increase dramatically, thus closing some of the gap between the Juubi and Kyuubi. At the same time this strategy will weaken the Juubi as the Juubi will lose power while Naruto's power increases as a consequence of that.
    2) The powered up Kyuubi will be able to stand up to the Juubi more effectively, instead of being wiped out after 1 minute like it would with his regular power level.

    The plan is however useless unless the Alliance takes out the Juubi's "mind" as Shikaku said. Thus the powered up Naruto's goal is to force Obito into his Kamui Dimension so that Kakashi can take him out and reduce the "mind" in half.

    What Shikaku wanted confirmed were two details. 1) He wanted to confirm details around the Kamui Dimension and the mechanics. 2) He wanted to confirm that the Juubi is indeed made up of natural energy, as Naruto himself said out loud for Kakashi to hear.

    Thoughts? This theory does obviously mean that Naruto is going to get yet another power up, but the Sage + Kyuubi Mode combination has been foreshadowed since the Pain arc like linked above.

  2. Like 5 Member(s) likes this post
  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Vigrid
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,416
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    That's a very interesting theory, but how would Kakashi keep Obito in the separate dimension?

  4. #3
    ... 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Posts
    23,066
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    That's a very interesting theory, but how would Kakashi keep Obito in the separate dimension?
    That's first and foremost the Alliance and Naruto's responsibility. Kakashi shouldn't need much time in there. That's why the Juubi needs to be dealt with. Since Kakashi previously chose to just punch Obito, it's possible that he can't use jutsu in the Kamui Dimension. We'll have to see if he can or not. If he can use jutsu, a Raikiri will do the job (and if he can it's rather insane that he didn't Raikiri Obito before...)

  5. #4
    Banned 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Country
    Croatia
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,076
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    This is a nice theory, and given all the detailed information, I think something along those lines will be the case. Combining SM and RM is the next step of Naruto's powerups anyway. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that gathering natural energy is risky and tough, thus Sages being so rare. I usually don't doubt in Kurama's powers, but I don't think he'll be able to use natural energy like taking a walk in the park, which is how it's supposed to be if they were to stand a chance against that thing.

  6. #5
    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member narutotheory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    931
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about the Juubi and what on earth Shikaku could have conjured up to stop the beast these past few days. We all know incapacitating the Juubi is highly improbable. The entity's power is landslides beyond what the Alliance can cope with, even including the Kyuubi and Hachibi's combined power. However we know that Shikaku wanted to confirm that his plan was possible by confirming with Kakashi about certain details <HERE>. Since he wanted to ask Kakashi about details, it's highly probable that one part of the plan is to take out Obito via Kamui Dimension battle. Obviously the one fighting Obito has to be Kakashi, and by forcing Obito into the Kamui Dimension, Juubi's "mind control" will likely be broken as Madara alone likely can't hold it for long. However for the battle with Obito to be possible the Alliance needs to do battle with the Juubi, and here Naruto's role obviously comes in. The only way I came up with that makes it remotely possible given the massive power difference between the Kyuubi and Juubi, is Senjutsu.

    Think about it. Why on earth would Kishi bother drawing a comparison between natural energy and the Juubi <HERE> if it holds no significance? All translations I've seen so far mention that while it's similar, the way the Juubi feels compared to "normal" natural energy is different (including aegon-rokudo's translation that's posted here on MH). However none of these translations indicate that using Juubi's power as a source of energy is impossible, they actually indicate it is possible. The fact that Naruto is able to feel the Juubi's power <HERE> proves that he's fully capable of sensing (and thus drawing in) the Juubi's power <HERE>.

    Now let's put together the build up for this theory in regards of the story:
    • The Kyuubi will possibly be fully recharged once he comes back into play. At a minimum the Kyuubi will have a significant (and necessary) amount of chakra. <HERE>
    • Naruto has once before subconsciously (and successfully) combined Sage Mode and Kyuubi Mode at a low level <HERE>.
    • To be a Sage, you need massive chakra reserves. Naturally to draw energy from the Juubi itself you need an unfathomable amount of chakra <HERE> to make a perfect balance <HERE>
    • It's popular to believe that Kyuubi can gather natural energy while Naruto fights, but this is by no means given nor proven. However the roles can be reversed, it's only natural that Kyuubi fights to begin with, and Naruto acting as a supporting role like he did previously. Thus Naruto will gather natural energy and use his and Kyuubi's combined chakra to make the balance, while Kyuubi fights.

    What the plan will accomplish if this theory is correct is:
    1) Give an immense power up to Naruto's full Bijuu Mode (limited to this time only). By making Naruto combine Sage and Bijuu Mode his power will increase dramatically, thus closing some of the gap between the Juubi and Kyuubi. At the same time this strategy will weaken the Juubi as the Juubi will lose power while Naruto's power increases as a consequence of that.
    2) The powered up Kyuubi will be able to stand up to the Juubi more effectively, instead of being wiped out after 1 minute like it would with his regular power level.

    The plan is however useless unless the Alliance takes out the Juubi's "mind" as Shikaku said. Thus the powered up Naruto's goal is to force Obito into his Kamui Dimension so that Kakashi can take him out and reduce the "mind" in half.

    What Shikaku wanted confirmed were two details. 1) He wanted to confirm details around the Kamui Dimension and the mechanics. 2) He wanted to confirm that the Juubi is indeed made up of natural energy, as Naruto himself said out loud for Kakashi to hear.

    Thoughts? This theory does obviously mean that Naruto is going to get yet another power up, but the Sage + Kyuubi Mode combination has been foreshadowed since the Pain arc like linked above.
    ----------------------------------------

    This is just my 2 cents...

    Obito is separated from the Juubi --> Juubi regains some consciousness and Madara has trouble controlling it --> Juubi screams out for help from Naruto --> Juubi and Naruto some how end up talking to each other --> Talk no Jutsu.... --> Sage some how shows up to help Naruto...

  7. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    895
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    its obvious

    naruto is a weakness for EVERYONE

    juubi, trollbito and madara are not excluded

    hint: rasengan WILL be involved

  8. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Country
    Iran
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,230
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    and what about Spiritual energy !? I mean , If NAruto use sage mode with QB mode .... the balance between three energy ( body , sprite and natural ) will vanish ....

    well , I wait for another plot hole from kishi
    خداحافظ

  9. #8
    ... 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Posts
    23,066
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    This is a nice theory, and given all the detailed information, I think something along those lines will be the case. Combining SM and RM is the next step of Naruto's powerups anyway. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that gathering natural energy is risky and tough, thus Sages being so rare. I usually don't doubt in Kurama's powers, but I don't think he'll be able to use natural energy like taking a walk in the park, which is how it's supposed to be if they were to stand a chance against that thing.
    I think a sage + bijuu mode combination will be possible due to Naruto's effort. He has already pseudo-done it. Naruto will be the one who has to balance out all the chakra. Since Kyuubi and Naruto currently basically share chakra, it's not very different from what Naruto would normally have to do. The only real difference is that he has to handle more chakra and natural energy, but that shouldn't be much of a challenge. E.g. instead of 1 chakra (and 1 natural energy) he'll have 10 chakra and thus need ten times the natural energy to make a perfect balance. If Kyuubi fights and Naruto collects and does the balancing, it's a done deal and not farfetched at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by narutotheory View Post
    ----------------------------------------

    This is just my 2 cents...

    Obito is separated from the Juubi --> Juubi regains some consciousness and Madara has trouble controlling it --> Juubi screams out for help from Naruto --> Juubi and Naruto some how end up talking to each other --> Talk no Jutsu.... --> Sage some how shows up to help Naruto...
    This is not unlikely. Naruto has already formed a bond of trust with the other Bijuu excluding Shukaku. It's basically canon that Naruto is going gain an advantage due to Juubi's consciousness rooting for Naruto. Taking out Obito is the only way the Alliance can win this fight, as taking out Madara is near impossible in comparison.

    I don't know about the Sage showing up aka. Minato. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's starting to become kind of cheap.

  10. #9
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,088
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Personaly i think Naruto is going to end up doing the Sage feat and just seal the thing inside himself using that RS seal he used on Kurama... The plan its probably a way to allow Naruto the time he needs to pull this off. I can't posibly belive the Juubo would go down to a direct fight. Even Rikudo Senin himself did not defeat it in a direct fight, he just sealed the beast inside himself.

  11. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    731
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Interesting theory about absorbing the "natural chakra" from Juubi to fuel sage mode. Totally feasible.

    The thing is, however, if Madara starts losing control of the Juubi, Obito would pretty much be pushed into the corner to activate Rinne Tensei or the Infinite Tsukiyomi would be foiled then and there.

  12. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,262
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Since he wanted to ask Kakashi about details, it's highly probable that one part of the plan is to take out Obito via Kamui Dimension battle.
    Possible, but I'd have to hope the plan is something better than that. The only thing breaking control over the Juubi is likely to do is end up annihilating everyone in the vicinity aside from Madara.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Think about it. Why on earth would Kishi bother drawing a comparison between natural energy and the Juubi <HERE> if it holds no significance?
    Seems to me that its a simple implication that Bijuu derive their power from natural energy. Wouldn't even surprise me if Naruto's sage mode completely failed once he got close to it, since he would probably be trying to compete with it to draw energy. I'm interested in seeing if Kurama gets seriously delayed or blocked by the same issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    However none of these translations indicate that using Juubi's power as a source of energy is impossible, they actually indicate it is possible. The fact that Naruto is able to feel the Juubi's power <HERE> proves that he's fully capable of sensing (and thus drawing in) the Juubi's power <HERE>.
    I see no reason to think it would be any different from the established method of drawing on a Bijuu. Even if he could draw on it without hosting it he would still be engaging in a chakra tug of war with something vastly stronger than him. What your suggesting is a non-continuity method for acting as a jinchuuriki. And for it to be any use at all Naruto would need to be able to expend natural energy faster than the Juubi could absorb it. Also if it were a serious possibility I doubt if Kabuto would have just been left on the sidelines to stew.

    Also it would pretty much rubbish the series long theme of the new generation surpassing the old for Alliance to coast through the ultimate battle on the old generation's strategy. Not that Kishi is above doing something like that, but at best it should give Shikamaru a hint towards the real solution. Not to mention the Sasuke has yet to show up with the information to change the course of the war.
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

  13. #12
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sanga Au79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    this is where madara magically pulls out his sacred knowledge of senjutsu from some random beast famly

  14. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member nitsthegame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    India
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    345
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    1. About jyubi chakra: remember the fact that even kyubi chakra is very reactive to natures forces..When naruto first enter the kyubi mode, even yamato's wood element reacted to it..The kyubi directed at this when he mentioned the jyubi chakra..And it should not be a surprise that all ninjutsu has actually has a source in jyubi.. so all element - water, air, lightening, eart, magma someway or the other are related to jyubi because his chakra is such that. The chakra can be molded into different forms.

    2. Then again jyubi might have been the solidified form of natural chakra

    3. For the luls..if kurama cannot manage natural chakra then he will be nine tail frog??? :P:P

    Moreover, i cannot understand why do you convert into frog if not able to manage the senju chakra??


    visit me here

  15. #14
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,088
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto's possible role in Shikaku's plan - The Juubi's weakness

    @nitsthegame

    Better question is why a frog and not a snake? Would Kabuto turn into a snake or a frog?

New Reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts